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Intel or AMD (NAS + Plex) in a Node 804 Case.

Hey Guys, I'm planning on Building a Nas in a Node 804 Case, I've been looking around for decent uATX mobos and found myself hanging between Intel and AMD and the support for ECC. 

AMD unofficially supports ECC but mobos seem to be hit or miss. 

Do i even need ECC? 

I'm on a strict budget and I've been suggested B450 Aorus M and Asrock B450M Pro. All i want is a functioning Nas for Data Archival and Casual Plex usage. Having atleast 6 sata ports and PCie lanes that do not share bandwidth with either m.2 slots for GPU, hba and 10Gbe networking is also planned.

Please help. 

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How many tb do you need?

 

What cpu would you use on that board?

 

Those asrock rack x470 boards are really nice for this use, as there is a igpu and impi on them, and 8 sata ports, and optional 10gbe.

 

Id argue ecc isn't really needed on a home server, esp when on a budget.

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10 minutes ago, Electronics Wizardy said:

How many tb do you need?

 

What cpu would you use on that board?

 

Those asrock rack x470 boards are really nice for this use, as there is a igpu and impi on them, and 8 sata ports, and optional 10gbe.

 

Id argue ecc isn't really needed on a home server, esp when on a budget.

I'm planning on using Ryzen 3 3100, unless u suggest something better.

Also my estimate ranges from 30-60 TB but i wont be adding all the drives simultaneously. I'll most probably start with just 2x8TB. Can u please suggest a motherboard better suited for my purpose as i described above. More sata ports, m.2 for cache and Pcie lanes that don't share bandwidth for potential gpu, hba and 10GBe networking upgrades in the future all while staying uATX. 

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1 minute ago, _wakajbr said:

 

I'm planning on using Ryzen 3 3100, unless u suggest something better.

Also my estimate ranges from 30-60 TB but i wont be adding all the drives simultaneously. I'll most probably start with just 2x8TB. Can u please suggest a motherboard better suited for my purpose as i described above. More sata ports, m.2 for cache and Pcie lanes that don't share bandwidth for potential gpu, hba and 10GBe networking upgrades in the future all while staying uATX. 

I suggested the asrock rack x470-d4u board. Here https://www.asrockrack.com/general/productdetail.asp?Model=X470D4U#Specifications

 

I have one one these, super nice board for ryzen servers. Might aswell run ecc with it too. You need udimms though.

 

What os do you plan on using?

 

id get bigger drives to start, like 14 or 16tb drives, makes upgrading much cheaper and easier.

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16 minutes ago, _wakajbr said:

Please help.

Seconding what @Electronics Wizardy said. I've had to stop myself a few times from rebuilding my server using one of those ASRock Rack boards (I wish they supported Zen 1 so my desktop processor could trickle down, but alas...)

 

Quote

in a Node 804 Case

I have the Node 804 and it's a great NAS case. It has a lot of room for fans, meaning you can have more quieter ones.

 

19 minutes ago, _wakajbr said:

Nas for Data Archival

If data integrity is a true goal, you're probably going to want FreeNAS or something else using ZFS. It really is that good. One of my on-going archival verification project can pull ~400MBps from a single RAIDZ2 array (basically RAID-6) thanks to ZFS's RAM caching and 10G networking.

 

ZFS also makes the array portable, so if something fails catastrophically on the motherboard and/or SATA card, you can migrate to a new system, import the pool, and you'll be up and running again.

 

1 minute ago, _wakajbr said:

m.2 for cache

As long as you have >= 32GB of RAM, there really isn't any need for this. The array itself will be fast enough for most things, and the RAM cache will handle the rest. L2ARC is more for workloads that randomly access large swaths of a file at a time (e.g. databases).

Main System (Byarlant): Ryzen 5 1600X | Asus B350-F Strix | Corsair H80i V2 | 16GB G.Skill DDR4 3200MHz CAS-14 | XFX RX 5600 XT THICC II | Samsung 960 PRO 512GB / Samsung 970 EVO 500GB / Seagate 7200RPM 3TB | Corsair CX650M | Mellanox ConnectX-2 10G NIC | Anidees AI-07BW Case | Dell U3415W Monitor | Microsoft Modern Keyboard

 

FreeNAS Server (Veda): Core i3-4170 | Supermicro X10SLL-F | Corsair H60 | 32GB Micron DDR3L ECC 1600MHz | 4x 10TB WD Whites / 1x Samsung PM961 128GB SSD / 1x Kingston 16GB SSD | Corsair CX430M | Mellanox ConnectX-2 10G NIC | LSI 9207-8i LBA | Fractal Design Node 804 Case (side panels swapped to show off drives)

 

Media Center/Video Capture (Jesta): Core i7-2600 | Asus H77M-PRO | Stock Cooler | 8GB No-name DDR3 | EVGA GTX750Ti SC | Sandisk UltraII SSD 64GB / Seagate 1.5TB HDD | Corsair CX450M | Hauppauge ImpactVCB-PCIe | Syba USB3.1 Gen 2 Card | LG UH12NS30 BD-ROM | Silverstone Sugo SG-11 Case

 

Laptop (Narrative): Lenovo Flex 5 81X20005US | Ryzen 5 4500U | 16GB RAM (soldered) | Vega 6 Graphics | UMIS 256GB NVMe SSD | (all-around awesome machine)

Laptop (Rozen-ZuluSony VAIO VPCF13WFX | Core i7-740QM | 8GB Patriot DDR3 | GT 425M | Kingston 120GB SSD | Blu-ray Drive | (lived a good life, retired with honor)

 

Tablet (---): Samsung Galaxy Tab A 8" (crosses fingers)
Tablet (ReGZ)Asus T102HA (BIOS clock doesn't tick, loses time when sleep/off) (I kill tablets with disturbing regularity)

Tablet (Unicorn)Surface Pro 2 (battery will reset total capacity to current charge, leading Windows to think it's always 100% charged until it dies)

Tablet (Loto)Dell Venue 8 Pro (screen discoloration issues, wouldn't update to Windows 10)

Tablet: iPad 2 16GB (WiFi died, basically useless after that)

 

Testbed/Old Desktop (Kshatriya): Xeon X5470 @ 4.0GHz | ZALMAN CNPS9500 | Gigabyte EP45-UD3L | 8GB Nanya DDR2 400MHz | XFX HD6870 DD | OCZ Vertex 3 Max-IOPS 120GB | Corsair CX430M (?) | HooToo USB 3.0 PCIe Card | NZXT H230 Case

 

Camera: Sony ɑ7II (w/ Meike Grip) | Sony SEL24240 | Samyang 35mm ƒ/2.8 | Sony SEL50F18F | Sony SEL2870 (kit lens) | PNY Elite Perfomance SDXC cards

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Just now, Electronics Wizardy said:

I suggested the asrock rack x470-d4u board. Here https://www.asrockrack.com/general/productdetail.asp?Model=X470D4U#Specifications

 

I have one one these, super nice board for ryzen servers. Might aswell run ecc with it too. You need udimms though.

 

What os do you plan on using?

 

id get bigger drives to start, like 14 or 16tb drives, makes upgrading much cheaper and easier.

I'll be using unraid. Though I'm not so sure.

Ok then I'll start with the 16TB. Also, what do you think about the mysterious 8,12,14TB drives inside the WD My Book? Are they worth harvesting for this server?

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Just now, _wakajbr said:

Also, what do you think about the mysterious 8,12,14TB drives inside the WD My Book?

*looks at the three 14TB I just got from BB* Oh, yeah, they're nice.

 

Unless you have qualms about warrantees (even then, technically WD can't refuse to RMA them per Morrison-Magnusen, but they'll give you a hard time anyways), they're pretty much *the* way to go for bulk storage.

 

The only caveat (that I haven't checked on my 14TBs, but was true on my 8s and 10s) is that those drive have PWDIS enabled, so you'll need to prevent 3.3V from getting to the drives (there are various ways) in order for them to spin up.

Main System (Byarlant): Ryzen 5 1600X | Asus B350-F Strix | Corsair H80i V2 | 16GB G.Skill DDR4 3200MHz CAS-14 | XFX RX 5600 XT THICC II | Samsung 960 PRO 512GB / Samsung 970 EVO 500GB / Seagate 7200RPM 3TB | Corsair CX650M | Mellanox ConnectX-2 10G NIC | Anidees AI-07BW Case | Dell U3415W Monitor | Microsoft Modern Keyboard

 

FreeNAS Server (Veda): Core i3-4170 | Supermicro X10SLL-F | Corsair H60 | 32GB Micron DDR3L ECC 1600MHz | 4x 10TB WD Whites / 1x Samsung PM961 128GB SSD / 1x Kingston 16GB SSD | Corsair CX430M | Mellanox ConnectX-2 10G NIC | LSI 9207-8i LBA | Fractal Design Node 804 Case (side panels swapped to show off drives)

 

Media Center/Video Capture (Jesta): Core i7-2600 | Asus H77M-PRO | Stock Cooler | 8GB No-name DDR3 | EVGA GTX750Ti SC | Sandisk UltraII SSD 64GB / Seagate 1.5TB HDD | Corsair CX450M | Hauppauge ImpactVCB-PCIe | Syba USB3.1 Gen 2 Card | LG UH12NS30 BD-ROM | Silverstone Sugo SG-11 Case

 

Laptop (Narrative): Lenovo Flex 5 81X20005US | Ryzen 5 4500U | 16GB RAM (soldered) | Vega 6 Graphics | UMIS 256GB NVMe SSD | (all-around awesome machine)

Laptop (Rozen-ZuluSony VAIO VPCF13WFX | Core i7-740QM | 8GB Patriot DDR3 | GT 425M | Kingston 120GB SSD | Blu-ray Drive | (lived a good life, retired with honor)

 

Tablet (---): Samsung Galaxy Tab A 8" (crosses fingers)
Tablet (ReGZ)Asus T102HA (BIOS clock doesn't tick, loses time when sleep/off) (I kill tablets with disturbing regularity)

Tablet (Unicorn)Surface Pro 2 (battery will reset total capacity to current charge, leading Windows to think it's always 100% charged until it dies)

Tablet (Loto)Dell Venue 8 Pro (screen discoloration issues, wouldn't update to Windows 10)

Tablet: iPad 2 16GB (WiFi died, basically useless after that)

 

Testbed/Old Desktop (Kshatriya): Xeon X5470 @ 4.0GHz | ZALMAN CNPS9500 | Gigabyte EP45-UD3L | 8GB Nanya DDR2 400MHz | XFX HD6870 DD | OCZ Vertex 3 Max-IOPS 120GB | Corsair CX430M (?) | HooToo USB 3.0 PCIe Card | NZXT H230 Case

 

Camera: Sony ɑ7II (w/ Meike Grip) | Sony SEL24240 | Samyang 35mm ƒ/2.8 | Sony SEL50F18F | Sony SEL2870 (kit lens) | PNY Elite Perfomance SDXC cards

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8 minutes ago, AbydosOne said:

Seconding what @Electronics Wizardy said. I've had to stop myself a few times from rebuilding my server using one of those ASRock Rack boards (I wish they supported Zen 1 so my desktop processor could trickle down, but alas...)

 

I have the Node 804 and it's a great NAS case. It has a lot of room for fans, meaning you can have more quieter ones.

 

If data integrity is a true goal, you're probably going to want FreeNAS or something else using ZFS. It really is that good. One of my on-going archival verification project can pull ~400MBps from a single RAIDZ2 array (basically RAID-6) thanks to ZFS's RAM caching and 10G networking.

 

ZFS also makes the array portable, so if something fails catastrophically on the motherboard and/or SATA card, you can migrate to a new system, import the pool, and you'll be up and running again.

 

As long as you have >= 32GB of RAM, there really isn't any need for this. The array itself will be fast enough for most things, and the RAM cache will handle the rest. L2ARC is more for workloads that randomly access large swaths of a file at a time (e.g. databases).

Thanks for this, ill be enquiring about the mobo @Electronics Wizardy suggested. Also, I'm definitely going with ZFS. Given the fact that I've never built a system before and have been jumping over gigabyte and asrock websites for the past 2 days, ill say that im a ZFS noob. Thanks a lot. 

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9 minutes ago, AbydosOne said:

*looks at the three 14TB I just got from BB* Oh, yeah, they're nice.

 

Unless you have qualms about warrantees (even then, technically WD can't refuse to RMA them per Morrison-Magnusen, but they'll give you a hard time anyways), they're pretty much *the* way to go for bulk storage.

 

The only caveat (that I haven't checked on my 14TBs, but was true on my 8s and 10s) is that those drive have PWDIS enabled, so you'll need to prevent 3.3V from getting to the drives (there are various ways) in order for them to spin up.

According to the CPU support list provided here:  https://www.asrockrack.com/general/productdetail.asp?Model=X470D4U#Specifications

Ryzen 3 3100 isn't supported. 

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26 minutes ago, _wakajbr said:

I'll be using unraid. Though I'm not so sure.

Ok then I'll start with the 16TB. Also, what do you think about the mysterious 8,12,14TB drives inside the WD My Book? Are they worth harvesting for this server?

I bought 4 14tb of those easystore drives, they are working well. For the price savings, Id say its well worth the portintal issues.

 

8 minutes ago, _wakajbr said:

According to the CPU support list provided here:  https://www.asrockrack.com/general/productdetail.asp?Model=X470D4U#Specifications

Ryzen 3 3100 isn't supported. 

Yea might have to go 3600.

 

I wouldn't be suprised if it works but isn't listed though.

 

THey also have a x570 version of the board comming out soon if you can wait.

 

 

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47 minutes ago, AbydosOne said:

*looks at the three 14TB I just got from BB* Oh, yeah, they're nice.

 

Unless you have qualms about warrantees (even then, technically WD can't refuse to RMA them per Morrison-Magnusen, but they'll give you a hard time anyways), they're pretty much *the* way to go for bulk storage.

 

The only caveat (that I haven't checked on my 14TBs, but was true on my 8s and 10s) is that those drive have PWDIS enabled, so you'll need to prevent 3.3V from getting to the drives (there are various ways) in order for them to spin up.

Thanks for the info. Is running them in unraid zfs a good idea? Giving up 14Tb worth of space to parity kinda hurts my heart? These are wayyy cheaper than the reds tho. I once owned a My Book 4tb... turned out to be a blue drive. Facepalm.

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1 minute ago, _wakajbr said:

Thanks for the info. Is running them in unraid zfs a good idea? Giving up 14Tb worth of space to parity kinda hurts my heart? These are wayyy cheaper than the reds tho. I once owned a My Book 4tb... turned out to be a blue drive. Facepalm.

Maybe not RAIDZ2 (I'm a bit attached to my data...), but parity and/or multiple copies is almost a necessity. When things go wrong, you're going to want it.

 

Supposedly the drives in the MyBooks/EasyStore/Elements are (for >=8TB) relabeled Reds (or Red Pros?). They report as 5400RPM, but actually run at 7200RPM. As long as you stick to the larger sizes, they're all basically trickle-down/down-binned enterprise drives.

Main System (Byarlant): Ryzen 5 1600X | Asus B350-F Strix | Corsair H80i V2 | 16GB G.Skill DDR4 3200MHz CAS-14 | XFX RX 5600 XT THICC II | Samsung 960 PRO 512GB / Samsung 970 EVO 500GB / Seagate 7200RPM 3TB | Corsair CX650M | Mellanox ConnectX-2 10G NIC | Anidees AI-07BW Case | Dell U3415W Monitor | Microsoft Modern Keyboard

 

FreeNAS Server (Veda): Core i3-4170 | Supermicro X10SLL-F | Corsair H60 | 32GB Micron DDR3L ECC 1600MHz | 4x 10TB WD Whites / 1x Samsung PM961 128GB SSD / 1x Kingston 16GB SSD | Corsair CX430M | Mellanox ConnectX-2 10G NIC | LSI 9207-8i LBA | Fractal Design Node 804 Case (side panels swapped to show off drives)

 

Media Center/Video Capture (Jesta): Core i7-2600 | Asus H77M-PRO | Stock Cooler | 8GB No-name DDR3 | EVGA GTX750Ti SC | Sandisk UltraII SSD 64GB / Seagate 1.5TB HDD | Corsair CX450M | Hauppauge ImpactVCB-PCIe | Syba USB3.1 Gen 2 Card | LG UH12NS30 BD-ROM | Silverstone Sugo SG-11 Case

 

Laptop (Narrative): Lenovo Flex 5 81X20005US | Ryzen 5 4500U | 16GB RAM (soldered) | Vega 6 Graphics | UMIS 256GB NVMe SSD | (all-around awesome machine)

Laptop (Rozen-ZuluSony VAIO VPCF13WFX | Core i7-740QM | 8GB Patriot DDR3 | GT 425M | Kingston 120GB SSD | Blu-ray Drive | (lived a good life, retired with honor)

 

Tablet (---): Samsung Galaxy Tab A 8" (crosses fingers)
Tablet (ReGZ)Asus T102HA (BIOS clock doesn't tick, loses time when sleep/off) (I kill tablets with disturbing regularity)

Tablet (Unicorn)Surface Pro 2 (battery will reset total capacity to current charge, leading Windows to think it's always 100% charged until it dies)

Tablet (Loto)Dell Venue 8 Pro (screen discoloration issues, wouldn't update to Windows 10)

Tablet: iPad 2 16GB (WiFi died, basically useless after that)

 

Testbed/Old Desktop (Kshatriya): Xeon X5470 @ 4.0GHz | ZALMAN CNPS9500 | Gigabyte EP45-UD3L | 8GB Nanya DDR2 400MHz | XFX HD6870 DD | OCZ Vertex 3 Max-IOPS 120GB | Corsair CX430M (?) | HooToo USB 3.0 PCIe Card | NZXT H230 Case

 

Camera: Sony ɑ7II (w/ Meike Grip) | Sony SEL24240 | Samyang 35mm ƒ/2.8 | Sony SEL50F18F | Sony SEL2870 (kit lens) | PNY Elite Perfomance SDXC cards

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25 minutes ago, _wakajbr said:

Thanks for the info. Is running them in unraid zfs a good idea? Giving up 14Tb worth of space to parity kinda hurts my heart? These are wayyy cheaper than the reds tho. I once owned a My Book 4tb... turned out to be a blue drive. Facepalm.

I wouldn't run zfs with unraid, go freenas if you want zfs.

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3 hours ago, AbydosOne said:

Maybe not RAIDZ2 (I'm a bit attached to my data...), but parity and/or multiple copies is almost a necessity. When things go wrong, you're going to want it.

 

Supposedly the drives in the MyBooks/EasyStore/Elements are (for >=8TB) relabeled Reds (or Red Pros?). They report as 5400RPM, but actually run at 7200RPM. As long as you stick to the larger sizes, they're all basically trickle-down/down-binned enterprise drives.

No need for raidz2 for home use go raidz1 and send encrypted snapshots of the pool to the cloud (example S3 Glacier Deep Archive). Rule of thumb is never to trust a single storage solution.

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8 hours ago, Electronics Wizardy said:

I bought 4 14tb of those easystore drives, they are working well. For the price savings, Id say its well worth the portintal issues.

 

Yea might have to go 3600.

 

I wouldn't be suprised if it works but isn't listed though.

 

THey also have a x570 version of the board comming out soon if you can wait.

 

 

Depends on how long its gonna take. I feel like 3100 will work on this considering its supports matisse, it wont do pcie 4.0 which doesn't matter anyways. About the x570, any idea when will it arrive? Is this the one? https://www.asrockrack.com/general/productdetail.asp?Model=X570D4U#Specifications

 

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4 hours ago, zhnu said:

No need for raidz2 for home use go raidz1 and send encrypted snapshots of the pool to the cloud (example S3 Glacier Deep Archive). Rule of thumb is never to trust a single storage solution.

Better do a ubuntu server on Rpi4 for an off-site backup. Jk.

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I have a general question for the author. The Node 804 seems incredibly popular for NAS. Why did you select this option over others like the Core V21?

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Core V21 seems be the jack of all trades and even tho it seems to be best ventilated mATX case around, it doesn't seem to fulfil nas requirements. No specific reason why. Node 804 on the other hand is cheaper and in my personal opinion seems more nas like, due to the 10 mounting positions, 8 of which are pre installed cages and the space for using custom brackets if u wanna squeeze in more?! I don't think i put enough thought into the case, I've had my hands full with the mobo and stuff, anyway i needed something compact and full tower ATX cases were out of question.. I did consider node 304 but Mini ITX has expansion limitations so mATX is kinda my sweet spot. 

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2 hours ago, _wakajbr said:

@Electronics Wizardy I'm unable to acquire Asrock x470d4u, in your opinion, how is Asrock X570 Pro4? Is it below x470d4u, a similar deal or a better one?  ECC support and all, with ryzen 3100 and 64gigs ram.

 https://www.asrock.com/mb/AMD/X570M Pro4/ this is the said mobo and I'm getting this for $256, Is this a good deal?

it doesn't have any of the server feauters the d4u has, so Id realy try to get one of those if you want the server features.

 

That seems pretty pricy for that board.

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7 minutes ago, Electronics Wizardy said:

it doesn't have any of the server feauters the d4u has, so Id realy try to get one of those if you want the server features.

 

That seems pretty pricy for that board.

I'm really sorry but asrock rack / supermicro isn't available in my country, and the customs are too high. Asrock/Gigabyte/Asus/Msi boards are available in b365/b450/b550/x470/x570 configs and others as uATX and miniITX . I'll be running a win10 vm on unraid with a 10Gig network card. What are my alternatives? Drives on my gaming rig are almost full lol. 

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5 minutes ago, _wakajbr said:

I'm really sorry but asrock rack / supermicro isn't available in my country, and the customs are too high. Asrock/Gigabyte/Asus/Msi boards are available in b365/b450/b550/x470/x570 configs and others as uATX and miniITX . I'll be running a win10 vm on unraid with a 10Gig network card. What are my alternatives? Drives on my gaming rig are almost full lol. 

Do you need pci passthough for this vm?

 

Might be cheaper and easier to just get larger hdds for your gaming pc.

 

For for this use, id just get a b460 board, a i3, and you can put the 10gbe card in the x16 slot.

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1 hour ago, Electronics Wizardy said:

For for this use, id just get a b460 board, a i3, and you can put the 10gbe card in the x16 slot.

Chose this https://www.gigabyte.com/Motherboard/B460M-D3H-rev-10#kf

6x sata, 4x pcie, 2x m.2 with no lanes sharing bandwidths as far as i know. 

Pairing this with an intel i3 10100 and 4x HyperX HX426C16FB3/16 and an SF600 supply from corsair.

No ecc support available here :(

Is this supposed to work the way i expect lol?

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2 hours ago, _wakajbr said:

Chose this https://www.gigabyte.com/Motherboard/B460M-D3H-rev-10#kf

6x sata, 4x pcie, 2x m.2 with no lanes sharing bandwidths as far as i know. 

Pairing this with an intel i3 10100 and 4x HyperX HX426C16FB3/16 and an SF600 supply from corsair.

No ecc support available here :(

Is this supposed to work the way i expect lol?

Yea that will work fine as a nas

 

For those uses, 64gb of ram is pretty overkill, id probably get fewer dimms aswell so you can upgrade if needed. Memory performance won't really matter here either.

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12 hours ago, _wakajbr said:

I'm really sorry but asrock rack / supermicro isn't available in my country

Okay so i ran my mouth earlier but that's not it, i tracked some supermicro vendors today.

8 hours ago, Electronics Wizardy said:

Yea that will work fine as a nas

The cheapest one that he's selling is X11SCL-F.

Here are the two configs i've settled on.

The [Supermicro](https://pcpartpicker.com/list/ZGKGxc) part list

and the [B460M D3H](https://pcpartpicker.com/list/czt44d) part list. 

 

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