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Haven't quite stuck to relying on ARM iGPU yet - Macbook with new Radeon graphics found

Apple has mentioned before on their M1 debut that the switch to ARM is gradual, hinting that it will continue to release x86-based laptops for the next two years or so. This seems to have been proven with some recent driver updates on the MacOS. Though it could also mean that the new ARM CPU may get dGPU support instead.

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Bootcamp has already revealed that Apple has a new 16-ich MacBook Pro planned, although probably not one with its M1 chipset. The upcoming laptop may have an exciting piece of hardware inside, nonetheless. According to @TheGalox_, AMD has partnered with Apple to deliver mobile RDNA 2 GPUs, and ones that currently have no desktop counterparts.

 

It is common for Apple to source exclusive chips from its partners, whether that be AMD or Intel. The current 16-inch MacBook Pro is the only laptop with the Radeon Pro 5600M, for example, so this may also be the case with the Radeon RX 6700 and RX 6700 XT. It is unclear when Apple plans to release the next 16-inch MacBook Pro, but there had been talk that it would be before the end of the year. Multiple outlets claim that AMD will unveil the desktop versions of the RX 6700 and RX 6700 XT in January though, so it may be until next year before we see the arrival of a new 16-inch MacBook Pro.

Source: https://www.notebookcheck.net/The-AMD-Radeon-RX-6700-series-may-debut-in-Apple-s-next-16-inch-MacBook-Pro.506075.0.html
Thoughts: If the price is as good as the previous 16-inch Macbook pro or better, I am sure there will be a lot of Mac users who wants this laptop. But with no information on what CPU configuration it carries, I wonder will these laptops make the ARM switch as well or instead use Intel's 10nm processors instead.

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you know, I knew as soon as the arm igpu leaks came out, they cannot be used for productivity. This might make the arm good for basic gaming, unless they make a 8 big core cpu, that would be good

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It's possible they'll do a final x86 refresh of the MBP 16 before they switch to arm. IDK how likely that is to happen though.

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I mean, could probably be a ''very great gaming laptop'' if more games were supported on MacOS... 

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This means we’re gonna get drivers for the 6000-series in macOS.

My Razer Core X egpu case + Intel i5-8500B 32GB Mac Mini are ready.

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The 16” MBP will be out in July or August (H2 2021, as per industry rumors), there’s no way for Apple to be the “first” to use the 6700 in the MBP.

 

Maybe the rumor is only half true and we could see the 6700 not in the MBP but in the new iMac in Jan or Feb or March. 

 

Maybe Apple could offer the new iMac both with Intel (as a last hurrah with the new miniLED design) and with the M1T. The Intel version with the 6700 and the M1T version with the rumored Apple “Lifuka” dGPU.

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A leaker said that the Intel 16-inch MacBook Pro will be receiving a redesign next year alongside (or before) an ASi one. I don't think Apple will use a 3rd Party dGPU in the ASi Macs, at WWDC they were very clear on not going down that path. This could just be one last Intel MacBook Pro, which would we weird. They would have to outperform a Tiger Lake CPU vs the 9980H they currently have, it's making them do more work to have a processor that seems like a smaller leap than if they just jumped from the 9980H.

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Sorry to be a party pooper, bit the same kind of information was found a while back about Ryzen CPUs and nothing has come from that.

 

Just because Apple test stuff out doesn’t mean it come to a product for consumers.

 

With that said this might become reality, just manage your expectations.

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I'm baffled at how this has gained traction.

 

It seems like the past year has seen a lot of people latch on to Twitter leaks from new or questionable sources as trustworthy. What's TheGalox's track record? Probably small or non-existent.

 

I could see Apple relying on AMD for GPUs in higher-end ARM systems, but it's far from guaranteed. If there's any support for this, it's that Apple often takes charge of Mac drivers for GPUs and won't be held back by AMD's usual focus on x86.

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Makes sense, can't really ditch dGPU just like that as higher option.

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1 hour ago, Doobeedoo said:

Makes sense, can't really ditch dGPU just like that as higher option.

If it's an SOC you can just make the GPU larger on the die. Like how the new consoles technically have their gpus and cpus on the same chip.

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^
that

 

all 3 options make sense

- big fat die size M1X with a big fat iGPU (like a PS5 has an on-die iGPU in the SoC), with binning as a differentiator for premium tiers (as seen on the M1 Macbook Air, that has a disabled 1/8 of the iGPU in the base model)

 

- apple own dGPU (why not, all bets are off, and there’s a rumor about a dGPU internally codenamed “Lifuka”)

 

- AMD dGPUs: but...after all the effort to break the chains of the Intel product pipeline...and all the fine tuning to keep the performance per watt at next gen level...now they would go back to relying on another company for the cadence of upgrades and for power optimization? And stuff like that magical instant switching of resolution (with no flashing black) on M1 Macs would still work on an AMD GPU? 

 

 

we won’t know until we see it

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On the Mac Pro there would be a Pro gpu like a Radeon Pro “W6700”, in an MPX module. 
 

That, I could totally believe, even in January. 

 

Just a Radeon Pro W6700 add-in card becoming available on the Apple Store one morning, no press release or anything. 

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6700 series but not 6800 series.  That what Apple has done for many years now. “We could be competitive, but we choose not to”  Makes this more believable actually.  An arm Mac with usable graphics excites me a lot. A 6700 isn’t going to make market share for Apple though.  Just slow the loss. 

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5 hours ago, Coolmaster said:

If it's an SOC you can just make the GPU larger on the die. Like how the new consoles technically have their gpus and cpus on the same chip.

Yeah, but they're not aiming that route now.

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11 hours ago, Commodus said:

I'm baffled at how this has gained traction.

 

It seems like the past year has seen a lot of people latch on to Twitter leaks from new or questionable sources as trustworthy. What's TheGalox's track record? Probably small or non-existent.

 

I could see Apple relying on AMD for GPUs in higher-end ARM systems, but it's far from guaranteed. If there's any support for this, it's that Apple often takes charge of Mac drivers for GPUs and won't be held back by AMD's usual focus on x86.

The other supporting bit is that Apple has built their own PCI-e controllers onto the SoC for quite some time, albeit for storage. Assuming they built in enough capacity on the bus with M1, I don’t think it a stretch to throw a GPU in there, and code some drivers for the CPU to issue appropriate instructions to it. Theoretically, the GPU doesn’t care what sort of ISA the host CPU is running so long as it receives instructions it can understand. 

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23 minutes ago, Zodiark1593 said:

The other supporting bit is that Apple has built their own PCI-e controllers onto the SoC for quite some time, albeit for storage. Assuming they built in enough capacity on the bus with M1, I don’t think it a stretch to throw a GPU in there, and code some drivers for the CPU to issue appropriate instructions to it. Theoretically, the GPU doesn’t care what sort of ISA the host CPU is running so long as it receives instructions it can understand. 

To expand on this, a theoretical dGPU (specially if it’s apples own design) might not even use PCI-e it might as well use a bespoke bus/protocol.

 

But at the same time why does Apple ”need” a dGPU, there are advantages, specially in memory handling and need to have GPU on SoC with unified memory. 
 

If I’m to speculate I believe more in Apple adding ”compute” expansion cards for systems like Mac Pro. That, while architectually identical to a GPU, won’t be wired/have drivers for rendering real time graphics but can be used for compute tasks that benefit from a GPUs streanghts. A bit like how if you work with i e CFD simulations you send your model to a cluster for the actual simulation, but that cluster is kind of useless if you want to play crysis on your workstation.

 

We need to start to diffrentiate between a gamers GPU needs and a workstations GPU needs.

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1 minute ago, Spindel said:

If I’m to speculate I believe more in Apple adding ”compute” expansion cards for systems like Mac Pro. That, while architectually identical to a GPU, won’t be wired/have drivers for rendering real time graphics but can be used for compute tasks that benefit from a GPUs streanghts. A bit like how if you work with i e CFD simulations you send your model to a cluster for the actual simulation, but that cluster is kind of useless if you want to play crysis on your workstation.

I'm not that knowledgeable about the technical specifications of how these workloads work, but Apple might make specialized add-in cards for different workloads. Similar to the afterburner card, there could be a card optimized for 3d modelling, cad, video editing, etc. It would be a cool concept but probably can't be done.

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13 hours ago, Bombastinator said:

6700 series but not 6800 series.  That what Apple has done for many years now. “We could be competitive, but we choose not to”  Makes this more believable actually.  An arm Mac with usable graphics excites me a lot. A 6700 isn’t going to make market share for Apple though.  Just slow the loss. 

Would be a “Pro” model with more VRAM though. Plus a lower power draw.  Think the Mac Pro with apples software would be better off with dual 6700’s vs one 6900

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7 minutes ago, Lord Vile said:

Would be a “Pro” model with more VRAM though. Plus a lower power draw.  Think the Mac Pro with apples software would be better off with dual 6700’s vs one 6900

Also the assumption there was the 6700 would be a lot slower than the 6800 which may not be the case. Lots of professional apps scale poorly with the top end configurations of GPUs anyway as things like memory bandwidth become a performance constraint, or memory capacity, or simply not all tasks can be GPU offloaded.

 

The GPU in the M1 is already performing in professional applications to the same level as GPUs twice the raw power, in limited cases triple, and that's simply down to architecture optimizations and memory latency.

 

However for something like the Mac Pro it doesn't really make sense to limit only to the 6700, or necessarily use the 6700 over a 6800 even with such little gains. Comes down to performance efficiency per dollar and when you are in the Mac Pro platform do you really care the absolute most about that? Probably not as much as the overall performance of the system.

 

At this stage of the industry it would be rather foolish of AMD to introduce yet another new TSMC 7nm product this side of February, the last thing AMD needs is to split up what 7nm allocation they have with yet more products.

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4 hours ago, Spindel said:

If I’m to speculate I believe more in Apple adding ”compute” expansion cards for systems like Mac Pro. That, while architectually identical to a GPU, won’t be wired/have drivers for rendering real time graphics but can be used for compute tasks that benefit from a GPUs streanghts

Apple would already have that if they didn't have a pathological hatred for Nvidia lol

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