Why do PC gamers get the shortstick?

[boggy77]

3 minutes ago, papajo said:

did you even ready the OP? not only the hefty loss is BS (on the console marketing side apologetics towards consoles which I didnt touch because its not related to the topic) but I used a 100% loss scenario and even with that the cost of graphics cards doesnt seem to be legit! 

we're not all fanboys and we're all reading what you're saying so stop being so condescending.

you're telling us not to compare consoles to pcs, but tell us to compare consoles with gpus, which makes even less sense.

@Nayr438made the best point in that these are custom made chips made and sold in bulk and that amd probably sells the cpus for less than 100 and the gpu chips for maybe 150 to sony/microsoft and the gpus in the consoles are slower than what's currently on the market. the equivalent gpu will probably launch for $300 or so, which means again $150 for the chip itself and $150 for the pcb, cooler, assembly and profit for the AIB

[Lord Vile]

10 minutes ago, papajo said:

did you even ready the OP? not only the hefty loss is BS (on the console marketing side apologetics towards consoles which I didnt touch because its not related to the topic) but I used a 100% loss scenario and even with that the cost of graphics cards doesnt seem to be legit! 

 

  

 

No you read above (as in directly above your quote in this post or read the OP again) I already foresaw this kind of apologetic and added a ridiculous 100% loss for consoles which still doesnt make the graphics card cost look legit

I don't think you understand how mass production works and the business model works for hardware. The companies that partner for video cards buys the chips from Nvidia or AMD, they then slap a cooler on it and sell it for more than the BOM cost and R+D. Nvidias MSRP means the partners are struggling to get much margin out of a sale which is what GN was getting at, the card makers don't get a RTX 3080 chip for free they have to pay for them. When say MSI sell you a card all of the profit is for that sale, if they sold it at a loss they would go out of business. A console manufacture can sell you a console for say a $200 loss. If you subscribe to XBL for that consoles lifespan they've now made money ontop of the fees they get from licensing, the cut they get from the store etc. If you buy say 2 game a year for $60 for 7 years they've made near $300 from that plus live plus micro transactions etc.

[papajo]

1 minute ago, boggy77 said:

you're telling us not to compare consoles to pcs, but tell us to compare consoles with gpus, which makes even less sense.

Why does it make even less sense? because you do not like to spend a single second to think about it? 

 

 

What dictated the MSRP of a graphics cardS? 

 

The cost to manufacture + the profit. 

 

 

So consoles have the same process to manufacture the PCB (same components and same facilities needed to glue the cips on them)

 

yet besides that they have added complexity not only because they have more components, but they are not just PCBs with a cooler (which is cheaper to make than an entire console )and have more parts such as SSDs gamepad controllers etc

 

Which drives ups the manufacturing cost. 

 

And yet still graphics cards are more expensive. 

[papajo]

2 minutes ago, Lord Vile said:

I don't think you understand how mass production works and the business model works for hardware.

So graphics cards are not mass-produced? are they maybe a boutique item?  not to mention that their complexity (a pcb with a cooler on it) is far smaller than the complexity of making a console and its accessories and pack them together. 

 

 

why are you people here so apologetic???

 

it's YOU they are screwing you are the consumers! 

[Lord Vile]

Just now, papajo said:

Why does it make even less sense? because you do not like to spend a single second to think about it? 

 

 

What dictated the MSRP of a graphics cardS? 

Nvidia

Just now, papajo said:

 

The cost to manufacture + the profit. 

No Nvidia does

Just now, papajo said:

 

 

So consoles have the same process to manufacture the PCB (same components and same facilities needed to glue the cips on them)

 

yet besides that they have added complexity not only because they have more components, but they are not just PCBs with a cooler (which is cheaper to make than an entire console )and have more parts such as SSDs gamepad controllers etc

 

Which drives ups the manufacturing cost. 

 

And yet still graphics cards are more expensive. 

Because of mass production and consoles operating at a loss. You're just not understanding economics at this point.

[Commodus]

1 minute ago, papajo said:

THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THAT

 

Guys just take of your pc master race fanboy glasses!!


THIS IS NOT ABOUT PC VS CONSOLE

 

 

This is about WHY ARE GRAPHICS CARDS AS A SINGLE COMPONENT ON THEIR OWN SO EXPENSIVE not to mention rare.... 

 

 

So why would they be so expensive? 

 

humm maybe the coolers are expensive (like gamers nexus in the video I linked talks about) 

 

hummm maybe the PCB is expensive... 

 

hummm maybe the chip is expensive.......

 

 

And that's is why I showcase a console it has same RDNA2 architecture as the 6000 graphics cards series. 

 

Yet on top of that it has many more components which add to cost

 

and is still much cheaper!!!! 

 

I mean why is it so hard to connect the dots? 

To start: yes, selling at a loss matters. It's not as steep a loss as you suggested earlier (if Microsoft was selling the Xbox Series X for half its raw cost, investors would want Nadella's head on a pike), but don't be surprised if the real cost is higher.

 

More importantly, the pricing is dictated by the very nature of modern consoles. These are self-contained, APU-based boxes sold in high volumes. There are no expansion slots, no socketed CPUs or graphics cards... there aren't as many parts, and they're relatively easy to make. The chips are designed with the expectation they can be reliably produced en masse. And don't forget that Microsoft and Sony are manufacturing millions upon millions of these systems — the economies of scale make them relatively easy to sell at these prices.

 

Contrast that with the Radeon 6800 XT you mentioned. It's a cutting edge GPU that pushes the limits of manufacturing, and will only sell to a niche audience — that is, people with fairly fast PCs who want fast graphics and prefer AMD over NVIDIA. Many PC gamers like to pretend they're the top dogs in the scene, but the truth is that the numbers make it too difficult to sell fast GPUs at low prices.

[Lord Vile]

Just now, papajo said:

So graphics cards are not mass-produced? are they maybe a boutique item?  

Not to the same degree consoles are. Nearly 150 MILLION PS4s sold in the last gen at a loss. How many GPUs of each SKU do you think Nvidia sells? Not that many.

Just now, papajo said:

 

 

why are you people here so apologetic???

 

it's YOU they are screwing you are the consumers! 

You just don't see how economics work. 

[Commodus]

9 minutes ago, papajo said:

 

*snip*

I was responding to Trik's argument, not yours.

[papajo]

3 minutes ago, Lord Vile said:

Because of mass production and consoles operating at a loss. You're just not understanding economics at this point.

again read my answer.. you are not understanding economics you are just slapping "terms" without thinking about how they work or what they mean. 

 

Both are mass produced, graphics cards on top of that have less complexity (as I ansered to you above already ) and I already used a 100% loss just because the prices are so ridiculous for graphics cards that even 100% loss on consoles doesnt make them look better 

 

 

3 minutes ago, Lord Vile said:

No Nvidia does

Quote

what does this even mean? nvidia does what lol

[WkdPaul]

* thread locked *

 

This thread is against the Community Standards for multiple reasons.

 

Quote

No harassment, discrimination or abuse of any kind.

• This includes insults and accusations (fanboy, troll, shill etc).

 

Quote

No trolling or flame-bait.

• This includes topics such as AMD vs NVIDIA, "company X sucks", and religious debates

 

Quote

• Ensure a friendly atmosphere to our visitors and forum members.
• Encourage the freedom of expression and exchange of information in a mature and responsible manner.