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Why do PC gamers get the shortstick?

I am really baffled by how PC gaming community gets treated and how big channels (and their fanboys, either being brand fanboys or youtube channel fanboys) are being so apologetic towards those big companies while if you take the fanboys glasses off for a few seconds then it's obvious that we are getting scr**ed! as consumers without any reason other than corporate greed and the marketing strategy of the beancounters in charge! 

 

take a look at this 

 

00ab3e9c09e448addd4bd04f9c066c4e.png

 

This is an APU btw (CPU + GPU )  look at the junk this pcb is loaded with!  (from xbox series X same goes with PS5) 

 

For comparison this is a PCB from an AMD 6800 xt you cant even buy for 1000$ 

 

front_small.jpg

 

 

Also take a look at the general junk the xbox comes with 

 

98d1726325941f1edbcd8c34394750fc.png

 

3b25905b3bdd2be8ddc39c7a7b3031d8.png

 

 

power supply,optical disk,ssd,cooling etc + you get a controller (+ OS for the system) 

 

retails at 499$

 

And it plays games at 4k to 30 -120 FPS depending on the title.... 

 

 

And on the other side we have youtubechannel apologetics like gamers nexus crying about how the poor companies cant get the graphics cards (a single pcb with a chip and ram on it) to stick on MSRP because the cooler costs 5-30$!!!!! the COOLER (some aluminium fins -the same metal you find in a coke can- and small thin plastic fans, the metal junk alone  on an xbox sx is more expensive than that) 

 

 

 

and we are talking about GPUs that costs upwards of 350$ and easily can get to 1000$

 

 

Oh some apologetic people that love the companies will say "yea but the consoles sell at a loss" first of all that is BS but because the difference is so obvious I will take that into account as if it was real not only that but I will assume some bogus and VERY generous loss of 100% or in other words I will assume that for every xbox ms sells for 499$ it loses an other 499$!!!! so lets say the total cost is 998$!!! which is total BS even the more hardcore company apologetics came close to such a percentage loss!

 

But that's fine.... 

 

it costs 998$ (which is BS but lets just roll with that to saturate the huge CONTRAST and realize how short of a stick we get as consumers/pc gamers) 

 

 

It costs 998$ and has:

 

A controller

Cables

PowerSupply (you know the one you pay atleast 50$ even for a cheapo chinese one) 

Optical drive

CPU

SSD

Lan

Wifi

and tons of small parts and chips that you wont find in a Graphics card box (the plastic shroud screws etc ) 

 

and it can play 4K at 30 to 120 FPS. 

 

 

And we are asked to pay for a bare PCB (with a cooler on it I forgot sorry :P ) by the same company (amd makes the APUs for those consoles, but Nvidia is not an angel either I just use AMD for that similarity reason)  that doesnt even include an HDMI cable !  for 650$!! (which is BS you cant find a GPU from amd in general and if you find it you will pay close to 1000$ ) and same goes for Nvidia asking 700$ (which you again wont find and certainly not at that price) for a similar performance counterpart. 

 

 

And the difference in FPS will be something like +10 to +20 FPS at best..... 

 

 

 

Yet you can easily find a console at retail price right now! 

 

 

So why arent we retaliating? why are we trying to defend those companies? there is obviously something faul smelling here! we are getting scr**ed!!! 

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Probably because consoles are far less capable than PC's? Not only in pure performance but flexibility as well.

 

Sure, the new consoles claim to run at 4k, but what kind of graphics settings? I'll take a $1000.00 gaming pc that can run 4k Ultra at 60fps over a console for $500 that's running 4k 60fps at low settings (assuming those claims are at all true and not just BS marketing double speak)

 

Not to mention that I can mod my games, as well as run I don't know how many other programs, at once. I can't run 3 or more different monitors, all doing something, at the same time, whilst playing ultra modded Skyrim SE on my main monitor, on any console.

Ketchup is better than mustard.

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Dubs are better than subs

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what are you saying?

Every company is screwing us?

Or...

please quote me or tag me @wall03 so i can see your response

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PCs will always be worth the extra outlay to those want to.

 

Cheaper games, mods, monitoring tools, overclocking, hardware upgrades, longer relevant  lifespan, better backwards compatiblity. The list can go on...

i5 8600 - RX580 - Fractal Nano S - 1080p 144Hz

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Just now, NineEyeRon said:

PCs will always be worth the extra outlay.

 

Cheaper games, mods, monitoring tools, overclocking, hardware upgrades, longer relevant  lifespan, better backwards compatiblity. The list can go on...

Multi-monitor-master-race!

 

Seriously, I hate going back to a single screen for anything.

Ketchup is better than mustard.

GUI is better than Command Line Interface.

Dubs are better than subs

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5 minutes ago, Trik'Stari said:

Probably because consoles are far less capable than PC's

  

4 minutes ago, NineEyeRon said:

PCs will always be worth the extra outlay to those want to.

 

Cheaper games, mods, monitoring tools, overclocking, hardware upgrades, longer relevant  lifespan, better backwards compatiblity. The list can go on...

 

 

Oh you are an other kind of fanboy pc master race yay!!! 

 

This is NOT about consoles VS PCs

 

 

This is about cost of  graphics cards

 

I am comparing the cost of an AMD/Nvidia GRAPHICS CARD as a single component on its own compared to the cost of an entire console that has much many more parts and junk on it (= much more expensive to manufacture yet selling at lower price with availability and similar perfomance!) 

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1 minute ago, papajo said:

 

I am comparing the cost of a AMD/Nvidia GRAPHICS CARD on it own compared to the cost of an entire console that has much many more parts and junk on it (= more cost to manufacture) 

The card in the console is significantly less powerful than a consumer GPU. The console GPU is built for one purpose GAMING. Consumer GPU's are built for multipurpose applications such as compute, workstation tasks, gaming etc.

I will recommend an NHu12s (or an NHd15 (maybe)) for your PC build. Quote or @ me @Prodigy_Smit for me to see your replies.

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5 minutes ago, papajo said:

Oh you are an other fanboy pc master race yay!!! 

 

This is NOT about consoles VS PCs

 

 

This is about cost of  graphics cards

 

I am comparing the cost of a AMD/Nvidia GRAPHICS CARD on it own compared to the cost of an entire console that has much many more parts and junk on it (= more cost to manufacture) 

 

A GPU on its own does nothing. A consoles GPU is integrated into a system which works as a whole. For developers it is a known set of specs working in a certain way, way easier to code for vs PC. (Even with oddities or weird buffers or registers you sometimes find on consoles).

 

A PC is the sum of its parts and you can scale them to your needs.

 

A console works for some and a PC for others but you really can’t compare a console GPU to a discreet GPU in they way you are trying. I don’t think it brings any useful conclusions.

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Just now, Smit Devrukhkar said:

The card in the console is significantly less powerful than a consumer GPU

No it is not and show me a GPU that is equal to it and doesnt cost as much as an entire console (= which has the added cost of CPU,OS,Drive,SSD etc which means that all that money that a console manufacturer spends on those parts a graphics card manufacturer pockets in his purse as PROFIT) 

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3 minutes ago, papajo said:

No it is not and show me a GPU that is equal to it and doesnt cost as much as an entire console (= which has the added cost of CPU,OS,Drive,SSD etc which means that all that money that a console manufacturer spends on those parts a graphics card manufacturer pockets in his purse as PROFIT) 

If you read the rest of my post you would see that I meant it in general purpose applications. The same logic applies for a lot of products. 

And most people don't buy a PC for just GAMING. If you want to just play games then go ahead get a console. 

I will recommend an NHu12s (or an NHd15 (maybe)) for your PC build. Quote or @ me @Prodigy_Smit for me to see your replies.

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6 minutes ago, papajo said:

  

 

 

Oh you are an other kind of fanboy pc master race yay!!! 

 

This is NOT about consoles VS PCs

 

 

This is about cost of  graphics cards

 

I am comparing the cost of an AMD/Nvidia GRAPHICS CARD as a single component on its own compared to the cost of an entire console that has much many more parts and junk on it (= much more expensive to manufacture yet selling at lower price with availability and similar perfomance!) 

Supply vs demand, plus the fact that those cards are ridiculously more powerful than the entire consoles you are comparing to.

Ketchup is better than mustard.

GUI is better than Command Line Interface.

Dubs are better than subs

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Large companies are about keeping investors happy. If that pleases the customers as well it is just a byproduct.

 

 

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5 minutes ago, papajo said:

No it is not and show me a GPU that is equal to it and doesnt cost as much as an entire console (= which has the added cost of CPU,OS,Drive,SSD etc which means that all that money that a console manufacturer spends on those parts a graphics card manufacturer pockets in his purse as PROFIT) 

they are not released yet. when amd launches the 6600xt or whatever they will call it, which will be comparable with what's in that console, it will probably be $300. the cpu inside them is probably a notebook grade r7 4700 or something, which isn't more than $150 so there you go. as others said, you can build a pc for let's say $700 that's as powerful as a console, but can do so much more than that and also have access to cheaper and more games over its lifetime, thus offsetting the price difference.

as you said, consoles are built at a loss, they make the money from the games. they are probably not worth $1000 as some claim, but closer to $700.

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It's often unfair to compare PC stuff to console when it comes to value.

Consoles start their life out taking a loss.

Any PC manufacturer that aimed to do this would vanish overnight.

They don't have the magic of licensing and services deals.

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Consoles are almost always sold at a loss because they make up the cost through sales of the games and online services.

 

can't exactly do that with something like a GPU since it can be used on any system with a PCIe slot. they have to make their money up front, not throughout it's lifetime.

Judge the product by its own merits, not by the Company that created it.

 

Don't dilute <good thing> by always trying to focus on, and drag conversation back to, <bad thing>.

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First of all, the performance of the APU in the Series X isn't comparable to the 6800XT or the 3700. 2nd of all, consoles are sold at a loss, sony and microsoft for the first couple of years lose money on each unit they sell, however they make it back in services, like in  the games you buy. However nvidia or AMD don't get money from the fact that you buy games off steam, so it's logical that they want to make a profit when selling their hardware. Not to mention the things you can't do with a console that a PC can do, and the modularity of a PC as well.

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1 minute ago, boggy77 said:

they are not released yet. when amd launches the 6600xt or whatever they will call it, which will be comparable with what's in that console, it will probably be $300.

Not to mention that Microsoft is only buying the chip itself and in bulk at that. So if say a 6600xt was equivalent and was priced at $300, strip out everything a console doesn't need, take just the chip itself, then add your bulk discount. I bet Microsoft is paying maybe $100 a piece for these chips. Add in maybe another $100 for a CPU in bulk, $100 for maybe misc parts across the board, add in the case, fans, power supply (maybe $100) and another $100  in labor and equipment costs. You could push out a console for $500 . Break even and make up the difference in licensing, first party accessories, and there on-line services. I mean this is a very poor example with stuff pulled from thin air, but I imagine this is somewhat close to what is happening.

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9 minutes ago, Smit Devrukhkar said:

And most people don't buy a PC for just GAMING.

THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THAT

 

Guys just take of your pc master race fanboy glasses!!


THIS IS NOT ABOUT PC VS CONSOLE

 

 

This is about WHY ARE GRAPHICS CARDS AS A SINGLE COMPONENT ON THEIR OWN SO EXPENSIVE not to mention rare.... 

 

 

So why would they be so expensive? 

 

humm maybe the coolers are expensive (like gamers nexus in the video I linked talks about) 

 

hummm maybe the PCB is expensive... 

 

hummm maybe the chip is expensive.......

 

 

And that's is why I showcase a console it has same RDNA2 architecture as the 6000 graphics cards series. 

 

Yet on top of that it has many more components which add to cost

 

and is still much cheaper!!!! 

 

I mean why is it so hard to connect the dots? 

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14 minutes ago, Trik'Stari said:

Probably because consoles are far less capable than PC's? Not only in pure performance but flexibility as well.

 

Sure, the new consoles claim to run at 4k, but what kind of graphics settings? I'll take a $1000.00 gaming pc that can run 4k Ultra at 60fps over a console for $500 that's running 4k 60fps at low settings (assuming those claims are at all true and not just BS marketing double speak)

 

Not to mention that I can mod my games, as well as run I don't know how many other programs, at once. I can't run 3 or more different monitors, all doing something, at the same time, whilst playing ultra modded Skyrim SE on my main monitor, on any console.

The PS5 and Xbox Series X are competitive with a decent gaming PC — not some 12-core beast with an RTX 3080, of course, but they're using Zen 2 architecture and have AMD's latest GPU tech with hardware ray tracing.

 

And the games look good, too. For example, Spider-Man: Miles Morales runs at 4K, 30FPS with ray tracing on, and that's a solid 30FPS (I know, I have the game on PS5). You can run it at 60FPS if you turn ray tracing off. It's also important to note that this is the first gen, and like with any console you're likely to see games taking better advantage of the platform as developers grow accustomed to it. That extremely impressive Unreal Engine 5 demo was on PS5 reference hardware.

 

The lack of flexibility matters insofar as it affects hardware costs. Microsoft and Sony clearly don't need expansion slots or other trappings of PCs as their consoles are fixed, self-contained boxes.

 

 

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@papajo

Read below.

8 minutes ago, Arika S said:

Consoles are almost always sold at a loss because they make up the cost through sales of the games and online services.

 

can't exactly do that with something like a GPU since it can be used on any system with a PCIe slot. they have to make their money up front, not throughout it's lifetime.

 

1 minute ago, Nayr438 said:

Not to mention that Microsoft is only buying the chip itself and in bulk at that. So if say a 6600xt was equivalent and was priced at $300, strip out everything a console doesn't need, take just the chip itself, then add your bulk discount. I bet Microsoft is paying maybe $100 a piece for these chips. Add in maybe another $100 for a CPU in bulk, $100 for maybe misc parts across the board, add in the case, fans, power supply (maybe $100) and another $100  in labor and equipment costs. You could push out a console for $500 . Break even and make up the difference in licensing, first party accessories, and there on-line services. I mean this is a very poor example with stuff pulled from thin air, but I imagine this is somewhat close to what is happening.

 

9 minutes ago, Den-Fi said:

It's often unfair to compare PC stuff to console when it comes to value.

Consoles start their life out taking a loss.

Any PC manufacturer that aimed to do this would vanish overnight.

They don't have the magic of licensing and services deals.

 

I will recommend an NHu12s (or an NHd15 (maybe)) for your PC build. Quote or @ me @Prodigy_Smit for me to see your replies.

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Legion y520 | i5 7300hq | 1050 4gb (Manual OC) | 16gb 2400Mhz cl18 | 256 GB SSD | 2tb HDD

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Xeon E3 1245 | 16gb ECC ram | 256 GB SSD | 2*2tb HDD

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1 minute ago, Nayr438 said:

Not to mention that Microsoft is only buying the chip itself and in bulk at that. So if say a 6600xt was equivalent and was priced at $300, strip out everything a console doesn't need, take just the chip itself, then add your bulk discount. I bet Microsoft is paying maybe $100 a piece for these chips. Add in maybe another $100 for a CPU in bulk, $100 for maybe misc parts across the board, add in the case, fans, power supply (maybe $100) and another $100  in labor and equipment costs. You could push out a console for $500 . Break even and make up the difference in licensing, first party accessories, and there on-line services. I mean this is a very poor example with stuff pulled from thin air, but I imagine this is somewhat close to what is happening.

They don't break even they're taking a hefty loss on these consoles and will make it back with XBL, game pass and such.

Dirty Windows Peasants :P ?

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4 minutes ago, Lord Vile said:

They don't break even they're taking a hefty loss on these consoles and will make it back with XBL, game pass and such.

did you even ready the OP? not only the hefty loss is BS (on the console marketing side apologetics towards consoles which I didnt touch because its not related to the topic) but I used a 100% loss scenario and even with that the cost of graphics cards doesnt seem to be legit! 

 

  

5 minutes ago, Smit Devrukhkar said:

@papajo

Read below.

 

 

 

 

No you read above (as in directly above your quote in this post or read the OP again) I already foresaw this kind of apologetic and added a ridiculous 100% loss for consoles which still doesnt make the graphics card cost look legit

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8 minutes ago, Commodus said:

The PS5 and Xbox Series X are competitive with a decent gaming PC

 

9 minutes ago, papajo said:

THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THAT

 

Guys just take of your pc master race fanboy glasses!!


THIS IS NOT ABOUT PC VS CONSOLE

 

 

This is about WHY ARE GRAPHICS CARDS AS A SINGLE COMPONENT ON THEIR OWN SO EXPENSIVE not to mention rare.... 

 

 

So why would they be so expensive? 

 

humm maybe the coolers are expensive (like gamers nexus in the video I linked talks about) 

 

hummm maybe the PCB is expensive... 

 

hummm maybe the chip is expensive.......

 

 

And that's is why I showcase a console it has same RDNA2 architecture as the 6000 graphics cards series. 

 

Yet on top of that it has many more components which add to cost

 

and is still much cheaper!!!! 

 

I mean why is it so hard to connect the dots? 

 

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It's clear that you dont actually want a discussion, you want to vent and call everyone who doesn't agree with you an "apologist".

 

if you're not happy, vote with your wallet, don't buy a GPU unless it's at a price you're willing to pay.

Judge the product by its own merits, not by the Company that created it.

 

Don't dilute <good thing> by always trying to focus on, and drag conversation back to, <bad thing>.

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