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Homeserver/NAS build, need some advice

Hello People.

 

since my DS918+ is getting a bit too slow for my needs im considering to replace it with a self build NAS.

Ive done a ton of research in the last few weeks and have already selected a few components.

 

First of all even though an m-ITX build would be much smaller it severely limits my hardware selection so i wanna go for an m-ATX build instead.

I wanna have 8 SATA ports available and if possible 2 m.2 so there is basically only one single motherboard in the market that i can use which is the 

  ASRock X570M Pro4 Micro ATX AM4

i thought about going for a cheaper board instead that has less SATA ports and buying a PCI-E Sata controller instead but that would cost basically the same as buying this motherboard.

i will combine this with 16GB of RAM and probably a Ryzen 3200G i would like one of the new 4000 series APU´s but these are still OEM only and i dont know how i could get one.

 

First question here is if anyone has another idea for a motherboard? i would also use Intel if there is a good one available.

I also found some Asrock server motherboards that already come with 10G Ethernet but these are like 300-500€ so again much more expensive then buying a 10G NIC seperately.

 

The other two big questions are the case and the OS.

For the case i initially wanted a Silverstone CS381 but it cost freaking 300€ for some reason.so i have selected two other options, the Fractal Node 804 which is the smallest case i could find that has enough HDD space in m-ATX or the Cooler Master HAF XB EVO which technically doesnt have enough HDD space but thats fine for me i wont use all SATA ports for HDD´s, some will be SSD´s instead but the HAF is much bigger than the node.

 

Does anyone know any other m-ATX case that has minimum 4 HDD slots and some 2.5" slots or at least 5.25 so i could add a drivebay in there later?

 

and the third and final question.

Which OS should i use?

im considering UNRAID or TrueNAS Core but im not sure which one would be better, i wanna run a VM or two and some docker containers, i will probably use no more than 4HDD´s but also two m.2 drives which i could use for caching and i also wanna go for 10G ethernet so not sure about compatability.

 

so short round up.

  1. other motherboard options?
  2. other case options?
  3. which OS to use?
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Why you want x570? If you wanna use 3200g, you can just use a A320 motherboard. not worth it to use high end parts for home server.

CPU probably better to use an Athlon 240g, cheap, low power, just enough for home server / nas.

Ryzen 3600 @ 4.5ghz all cores | Asrock B550M Steel Legend | Radeon RX580 | 2x Samsung 16gb c-die 2666 @ 3600mhz cl16 | 500gb WD SN750 | 9 TB HDD | Deepcool Gammax 400 w/ 2 delta 4000rpm push pull | Antec Neo Eco Zen 500w

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Just now, SupaKomputa said:

Why you want x570? If you wanna use 3200g, you can just use a A320 motherboard. not worth it to use high end parts for home server.

CPU probably better to use an Athlon 240g, cheap, low power, just enough for home server / nas.

if there would be any motherboard with enough SATA and m.2 ports on the market with the A320 chipset i would take it but even with 6 Sata ports the selection is already limited to a hand full of boards.

 

going for A320 would mean i need a SATA controller in a PCI-E slot which would mean even if i had a board with two m.2 slots one would be disabled due to the number oF PCI-E lanes available.

Thats why im asking for motherboard advice as well, if anyone knows any that has enough SATA ports or is so ultra cheap that i could get a SATA controller i would take it but i just cant find any that does.

 

The nice thing about x570 would be that the build would be insanely future proofed thanks to PCI-E 4.0 but it also means my NAS has a better board than my gaming PC but thats only really due to the SATA ports i wanna have.

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well if you need more sata ports you can just buy a sata add in card, same goes for the M.2.

get a 4x sata card + a 2x m.2 card, plus the cost of the a320, its still going to be cheaper than the cheapest x570.

for cpu if you wanna get 4000 series, the 4350G looks good (aliexpress).

Ryzen 3600 @ 4.5ghz all cores | Asrock B550M Steel Legend | Radeon RX580 | 2x Samsung 16gb c-die 2666 @ 3600mhz cl16 | 500gb WD SN750 | 9 TB HDD | Deepcool Gammax 400 w/ 2 delta 4000rpm push pull | Antec Neo Eco Zen 500w

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2 minutes ago, SupaKomputa said:

well if you need more sata ports you can just buy a sata add in card, same goes for the M.2.

get a 4x sata card + a 2x m.2 card, plus the cost of the a320, its still going to be cheaper than the cheapest x570.

for cpu if you wanna get 4000 series, the 4350G looks good (aliexpress).

that wont work due to PCI-E lane limitations.

that would mean i need 3 PCI-E slots which most m-ATX motherboards dont have and even if they do the third slot usually only runs at PCI-E 2.0 so its basically useless.

not to mention getting such an m.2 card and a 4x sata controller would cost more than the x570 motherboard.

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Youre right, if you need a full pcie 3.0 x4 that might not work.

but theres A520 that fully supports pcie 3.0.

all im saying dont buy x570 just to have the ports.

8 minutes ago, Pixel5 said:

not to mention getting such an m.2 card and a 4x sata controller would cost more than the x570 motherboard.

No. addin card is only $10-20 a piece.

image.png.10c7288f4565385f59e20c86285a1ef6.png

image.png.4b7b4a2e380e391e81a8b93af8265aab.png

 

Ryzen 3600 @ 4.5ghz all cores | Asrock B550M Steel Legend | Radeon RX580 | 2x Samsung 16gb c-die 2666 @ 3600mhz cl16 | 500gb WD SN750 | 9 TB HDD | Deepcool Gammax 400 w/ 2 delta 4000rpm push pull | Antec Neo Eco Zen 500w

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5 minutes ago, boggy77 said:

boards with 6 sata slots are half the price. i don't think it's worth paying that much for 2 extra.

the Gigabyte only has one m.2 slot and on the Asus the 2nd m.2 slot shares the lanes with two SATA ports so you can only use one of them.

 

If my research is correct there can be no board beside 500 series chipsets that even has enough PCI-E lanes available for two m.2 and minimum 6 SATA ports without sharing the bandwidth.

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1 minute ago, SupaKomputa said:

Youre right, if you need a full pcie 3.0 x4 that might not work.

but theres A520 that fully supports pcie 3.0.

all im saying dont buy x570 just to have the ports.

No. addin card is only $10-20 a piece.

image.png.10c7288f4565385f59e20c86285a1ef6.png

image.png.4b7b4a2e380e391e81a8b93af8265aab.png

 

ive seen these SATA cards before and this was my preferred option but the problem are the details yet again.

basically all of these cards are only 1X cards and even worse most of them are only PCI-E 2.0 which means all 4 SATA ports share 500mb/s in bandwidth at most.

This makes them completely useless for RAID arrays as this will bottleneck the entire array.

 

to get the full speed for all ports you would need a 4x card which costs double that at the low end.

Same for the m.2 card, this one only has a 4x interface so both m.2 drives will operate at half their rated speeds.

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If you need a lot of sata ports, get a decent HBA. Otherwise you just work around the problem with bad solutions rather than actually fixing it. Same goes with M.2 slots. You cana lways just get a x4 pcie card to add another one or more of those. Tehre are more than enough matx board with 2 x8 pcie slots to add both into a single sytem. This increases the possible boards by a lot.

Gaming Rig: Ryzen 9 5950x | 2x16GB DDR4 3200MHz | XFX Reference 6800 XT | MSI Unify X570 | Corsair MP600 2TB, Samsung 850 Evo 500GB | bequiet 850W Straight Power 11

Server: Ryzen 5 3600 | 4x32GB DDR4 ECC 2400MHz | Asrock Rack X470D4U | Samsung EVO Plus 250GB, 6x Seagate Exos 8TB, Samsung 850 Pro 1TB | bequiet 550W Straight Power 11

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2 hours ago, Jisagi said:

If you need a lot of sata ports, get a decent HBA. Otherwise you just work around the problem with bad solutions rather than actually fixing it. Same goes with M.2 slots. You cana lways just get a x4 pcie card to add another one or more of those. Tehre are more than enough matx board with 2 x8 pcie slots to add both into a single sytem. This increases the possible boards by a lot.

the problem is i will have to make at least one compromise or have a motherboard that fullfills at least one of my needs because in order to get an HBA card, an M.2 card and my 10G NIC installed i would need 3 PCI-E 4x slots which doesnt exist on any m-ATX motherboard.

 

So i would need a motherboard that either has two m.2 slots or that has 8 SATA ports so i can replace the other one with an add in card.

Searching for this leads me to the same motherboard again because all others always have their already limited SATA ports shared with m.2 slots or even worse have an PCI-E slot shared with an m.2 so i can only use either of them.

 

i guess ill stick to the motherboard i found as there has been no better solution posted here yet but the question regarding the case and the OS still remain.

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8 hours ago, Pixel5 said:

im considering UNRAID or TrueNAS Core but im not sure which one would be better, i wanna run a VM or two and some docker containers, i will probably use no more than 4HDD´s but also two m.2 drives which i could use for caching and i also wanna go for 10G ethernet so not sure about compatability.

If you only need 4 hdds, then why get a board with 8 sata ports?

 

Id wouldn't use the m.2 for caching, id just use them for vms. Caching doesn't relly help here.

 

Unraid is known for being slow, so don't get it if you need performance. 

 

HOw many tb do you need of storage? 

 

Do you wnt to upgrade easily?

 

 

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23 minutes ago, Electronics Wizardy said:

If you only need 4 hdds, then why get a board with 8 sata ports?

 

Id wouldn't use the m.2 for caching, id just use them for vms. Caching doesn't relly help here.

 

Unraid is known for being slow, so don't get it if you need performance. 

 

HOw many tb do you need of storage? 

 

Do you wnt to upgrade easily?

 

 

i currently only wanna use 4HDD´s at most cause that will give me enough storage for a while but i wanna have the option to add drives, possibly even some cheap SSD´s to run some more IO heavy stuff on these like you mentioned with VM´s.

 

The idea of 8 SATA ports comes from that that most cases wont offer any more drive bays and that i will probably never exceed this number, it just happened to be the case that the motherboard i found has exactly 8 ports and 2 m.2 slots so it was a perfect fit.

i also probably gonna reuse some old HDD´s i have here for temporary storage outside of the main volume like baking up the data of an SSD which i dont plan on running in any RAID directly as the data will not be that important on these.

 

I got the idea of using the m.2 for caching as i have them in my 918+ for this right now but you are right they dont really help much in there either, i was hoping other NAS operating systems do a better job of utilizing them then synology does.

 

Overall i expect to need about 5TB more storage within the next year and im currently full with around 10TB on my current system.

 

Upgrading easily is one of my main point which is why im trying to go for AM4 which gives me plenty of upgrade options down the line and this is also why im currently preferring the x570 platform for PCI-E 4.0 the idea is that i dont need to change everything if i want to upgrade but instead i can just swap the CPU, add more RAM or add more disks as my needs change.

And after all this motherboard only costs like 100€ more then most other cheap options wich all limit me to 4 SATA ports and one m.2

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9 hours ago, Pixel5 said:

Hello People.

 

since my DS918+ is getting a bit too slow for my needs im considering to replace it with a self build NAS.

Ive done a ton of research in the last few weeks and have already selected a few components.

 

First of all even though an m-ITX build would be much smaller it severely limits my hardware selection so i wanna go for an m-ATX build instead.

I wanna have 8 SATA ports available and if possible 2 m.2 so there is basically only one single motherboard in the market that i can use which is the 

  ASRock X570M Pro4 Micro ATX AM4

i thought about going for a cheaper board instead that has less SATA ports and buying a PCI-E Sata controller instead but that would cost basically the same as buying this motherboard.

i will combine this with 16GB of RAM and probably a Ryzen 3200G i would like one of the new 4000 series APU´s but these are still OEM only and i dont know how i could get one.

 

First question here is if anyone has another idea for a motherboard? i would also use Intel if there is a good one available.

I also found some Asrock server motherboards that already come with 10G Ethernet but these are like 300-500€ so again much more expensive then buying a 10G NIC seperately.

 

The other two big questions are the case and the OS.

For the case i initially wanted a Silverstone CS381 but it cost freaking 300€ for some reason.so i have selected two other options, the Fractal Node 804 which is the smallest case i could find that has enough HDD space in m-ATX or the Cooler Master HAF XB EVO which technically doesnt have enough HDD space but thats fine for me i wont use all SATA ports for HDD´s, some will be SSD´s instead but the HAF is much bigger than the node.

 

Does anyone know any other m-ATX case that has minimum 4 HDD slots and some 2.5" slots or at least 5.25 so i could add a drivebay in there later?

 

and the third and final question.

Which OS should i use?

im considering UNRAID or TrueNAS Core but im not sure which one would be better, i wanna run a VM or two and some docker containers, i will probably use no more than 4HDD´s but also two m.2 drives which i could use for caching and i also wanna go for 10G ethernet so not sure about compatability.

 

so short round up.

  1. other motherboard options?
  2. other case options?
  3. which OS to use?

Lets start it simple what's your budget?

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23 minutes ago, zhnu said:

Lets start it simple what's your budget?

There is not really a set budget, it's gonna cost whatever it costs as long as it's not excessive. 

 

What i wanna avoid is saving 50 bucks now only to need to buy a 100 buck part down the line when I want to upgrade something later on which is why I'm trying to start out with so many sata ports right away as a quality LSI card would be the same price anyways. 

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2 minutes ago, Pixel5 said:

There is not really a set budget, it's gonna cost whatever it costs as long as it's not excessive. 

 

What i wanna avoid is saving 50 bucks now only to need to buy a 100 buck part down the line when I want to upgrade something later on which is why I'm trying to start out with so many sata ports right away as a quality LSI card would be the same price anyways. 

Like this? Or lower?
https://www.supermicro.com/en/products/motherboard/A2SDi-TP8F
https://www.supermicro.com/en/products/motherboard/A2SDi-H-TP4F

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I have this one from Asrock Rack. It's an matx board, with 8 sata ports and 3 pcie slots which can be split into x4 in the bios. the two m.2 slots are only pcie3x2 and pcie2x4, so the only compromise you'd get is the m.2, which can be dealt with the open pcie slots. I really think there have to be some other boards who offer the same or comparable inputs

 

EDIT: They also have a new x570 one (X570D4U-2L2T) which has even more and offers pcie4 which helps even more when it comes to pcie lanes. This one is expensive though.

Gaming Rig: Ryzen 9 5950x | 2x16GB DDR4 3200MHz | XFX Reference 6800 XT | MSI Unify X570 | Corsair MP600 2TB, Samsung 850 Evo 500GB | bequiet 850W Straight Power 11

Server: Ryzen 5 3600 | 4x32GB DDR4 ECC 2400MHz | Asrock Rack X470D4U | Samsung EVO Plus 250GB, 6x Seagate Exos 8TB, Samsung 850 Pro 1TB | bequiet 550W Straight Power 11

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1 hour ago, Pixel5 said:

i currently only wanna use 4HDD´s at most cause that will give me enough storage for a while but i wanna have the option to add drives, possibly even some cheap SSD´s to run some more IO heavy stuff on these like you mentioned with VM´s.

 

The idea of 8 SATA ports comes from that that most cases wont offer any more drive bays and that i will probably never exceed this number, it just happened to be the case that the motherboard i found has exactly 8 ports and 2 m.2 slots so it was a perfect fit.

i also probably gonna reuse some old HDD´s i have here for temporary storage outside of the main volume like baking up the data of an SSD which i dont plan on running in any RAID directly as the data will not be that important on these.

 

I got the idea of using the m.2 for caching as i have them in my 918+ for this right now but you are right they dont really help much in there either, i was hoping other NAS operating systems do a better job of utilizing them then synology does.

 

Overall i expect to need about 5TB more storage within the next year and im currently full with around 10TB on my current system.

 

Upgrading easily is one of my main point which is why im trying to go for AM4 which gives me plenty of upgrade options down the line and this is also why im currently preferring the x570 platform for PCI-E 4.0 the idea is that i dont need to change everything if i want to upgrade but instead i can just swap the CPU, add more RAM or add more disks as my needs change.

And after all this motherboard only costs like 100€ more then most other cheap options wich all limit me to 4 SATA ports and one m.2

With only 10tb you expect you need, Id start with a pair of 14tb hdds. That should give you plenty of space, thena add another pair of drives later if you need the space. You really don't seem to need those extra sata ports, I just wouldn't worry about this issue

 

Id be darm tempted to go with a i3 10100 to get the igpu, and its faster than the 3200g and about the same price.

 

I don't think gen 4 will relly mtter for you. You don't seem to need high band width here. 

 

Here is what id do

 

get. b460 board like this guy

 

https://www.amazon.com/GIGABYTE-B460M-D3H-LGA1200-Motherboard/dp/B08933PCGT/ref=sr_1_4?dchild=1&keywords=b460&qid=1606515273&s=electronics&sr=1-4

 

Then get. i3 10100 + ram for it.

 

You relly don't seem to need all the sata pots, just get some 14tb drives and keep adding them as needed.

 

Id run proxmox on it personally, but unraid or freenas will be fine. Just use the m.2 as boot + vm drives, and store the rest of the files on the hdds

 

2 minutes ago, Jisagi said:

I have this one from Asrock Rack. It's an matx board, with 8 sata ports and 3 pcie slots which can be split into x4 in the bios. the two m.2 slots are only pcie3x2 and pcie2x4, so the only compromise you'd get is the m.2, which can be dealt with the open pcie slots. I really think there have to be some other boards who offer the same or comparable inputs

Another good option I have one, but there not cheap. the gpu on board and impi is super handy.

 

 

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9 hours ago, Electronics Wizardy said:

With only 10tb you expect you need, Id start with a pair of 14tb hdds. That should give you plenty of space, thena add another pair of drives later if you need the space. You really don't seem to need those extra sata ports, I just wouldn't worry about this issue

 

Id be darm tempted to go with a i3 10100 to get the igpu, and its faster than the 3200g and about the same price.

 

I don't think gen 4 will relly mtter for you. You don't seem to need high band width here. 

 

Here is what id do

 

get. b460 board like this guy

 

https://www.amazon.com/GIGABYTE-B460M-D3H-LGA1200-Motherboard/dp/B08933PCGT/ref=sr_1_4?dchild=1&keywords=b460&qid=1606515273&s=electronics&sr=1-4

 

Then get. i3 10100 + ram for it.

 

You relly don't seem to need all the sata pots, just get some 14tb drives and keep adding them as needed.

 

Id run proxmox on it personally, but unraid or freenas will be fine. Just use the m.2 as boot + vm drives, and store the rest of the files on the hdds

 

Another good option I have one, but there not cheap. the gpu on board and impi is super handy.

 

 

I forgot to mention I already have some drives, currently I have two 8tb drives and one 3tb drive in SHR1 in my 918+

Im not really planning on going over 8tb per drive as I want to avoid SMR and the write speed penalty it comes with. 

I'll take a look at some other options but then I'll also need another case possibly smaller but still m atx which I couldn't find till now. 

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10 hours ago, Jisagi said:

I have this one from Asrock Rack. It's an matx board, with 8 sata ports and 3 pcie slots which can be split into x4 in the bios. the two m.2 slots are only pcie3x2 and pcie2x4, so the only compromise you'd get is the m.2, which can be dealt with the open pcie slots. I really think there have to be some other boards who offer the same or comparable inputs

 

EDIT: They also have a new x570 one (X570D4U-2L2T) which has even more and offers pcie4 which helps even more when it comes to pcie lanes. This one is expensive though.

yea if considered the x570 version that they offer this was actually my first choice but its just so expensive that its much cheaper to get a normal motherboard and add a 10G NIC by myself.

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12 hours ago, Pixel5 said:

i currently only wanna use 4HDD´s at most cause that will give me enough storage for a while but i wanna have the option to add drives, possibly even some cheap SSD´s to run some more IO heavy stuff on these like you mentioned with VM´s.

 

The idea of 8 SATA ports comes from that that most cases wont offer any more drive bays and that i will probably never exceed this number, it just happened to be the case that the motherboard i found has exactly 8 ports and 2 m.2 slots so it was a perfect fit.

i also probably gonna reuse some old HDD´s i have here for temporary storage outside of the main volume like baking up the data of an SSD which i dont plan on running in any RAID directly as the data will not be that important on these.

 

I got the idea of using the m.2 for caching as i have them in my 918+ for this right now but you are right they dont really help much in there either, i was hoping other NAS operating systems do a better job of utilizing them then synology does.

 

Overall i expect to need about 5TB more storage within the next year and im currently full with around 10TB on my current system.

 

Upgrading easily is one of my main point which is why im trying to go for AM4 which gives me plenty of upgrade options down the line and this is also why im currently preferring the x570 platform for PCI-E 4.0 the idea is that i dont need to change everything if i want to upgrade but instead i can just swap the CPU, add more RAM or add more disks as my needs change.

And after all this motherboard only costs like 100€ more then most other cheap options wich all limit me to 4 SATA ports and one m.2

So if you think you'll add drives down the road, why not include a SATA card as part of that upgrade cycle/cost? It'll end up being a very minor portion of the overall capacity upgrade costs, even if you only purchase an additional two drives.

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1 minute ago, Cavalry Canuck said:

So if you think you'll add drives down the road, why not include a SATA card as part of that upgrade cycle/cost? It'll end up being a very minor portion of the overall capacity upgrade costs, even if you only purchase an additional two drives.

that would all be fine but the problem here is the one single motherboard that has the two m.2 slots that i want also comes with 8 SATA ports already.

i simply can not find any board that would be cheaper than the one i found but also offers two m.2 slots or 10G ethernet as one of these needs to be there already due to PCI-e lane limitations for add in cards.

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18 minutes ago, Pixel5 said:

that would all be fine but the problem here is the one single motherboard that has the two m.2 slots that i want also comes with 8 SATA ports already.

i simply can not find any board that would be cheaper than the one i found but also offers two m.2 slots or 10G ethernet as one of these needs to be there already due to PCI-e lane limitations for add in cards.

You said in the thread title that you need some advice. It sounds like what you actually want is confirmation that your plan is a good idea.

 

Frankly, I don't think it is. My advice is to buy a cheap board & cheap processor off the hop, prioritising the M.2 slots. Then, buy yourself a 10GB ethernet expansion card along with that combo if you *really* need it immediately. Otherwise, defer the purchase. Then down the road, get a SATA card when you add the additional hard drives.

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35 minutes ago, Cavalry Canuck said:

You said in the thread title that you need some advice. It sounds like what you actually want is confirmation that your plan is a good idea.

nah i am looking for advice, the thing is half the posts here were solutions that wouldnt work due to PCI-E lane limitation or would at the very least bottleneck due to bandwidth limitations.

The only advice im considering here right now is the one of going for less SATA ports and adding an add in card if i need more but for that i would still need a motherboard with enough PCI-E lanes and slots which brings me back to m-ATX and leads to the exact same board again.

 

Edit: also going for less SATA ports only really makes sense for me if that would also mean i can get a much smaller case but this would only work with m-ITX which would kill all upgrade options unless i find a m-ITX motherboard that already comes with 10G ethernet.

There is actually exactly one m-ITX that i could find with 10G ethernet on AM4 and guess what it also comes with?

8 SATA ports once again.

I dont know why that is but there seems to be no in between here, either a board has 8 SATA ports or it has the standard 4 SATA port and also comes with lower spec PCI-E which limits bandwidths again.

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