Nvidia Sold $175 Million Worth of GeForce RTX 30 GPUs To Crypto Miners

[AlTech]

5 minutes ago, Elisis said:

They will sell to anyone who will give them money.

Not after Vega.

 

They want to take back Nvidia gaming mindshare and marketshare, not Nvidia's mining marketshare.

[just_dave]

Nothing wrong with this. Gotta do business and make revenue. If I ran nvidia business dept. I'd probably make miners my #1 customer.

[Master Disaster]

3 hours ago, Kisai said:

Because Miners produce nothing. They turn energy into heat and then try to assign imaginary value to it in order to get big stupid finance companies like Paypal to to accept them so they can do the "dump" part of the pump-and-dump.laces that currently rely on dirty generation capacity.

I wasn't aware being productive was a prerequisite for owning a graphics card?

 

Its kind of funny that you rant about miners producing nothing except heat and imaginary currency while simultaneously saying that the cards are meant for gamers. What exactly do gamers produce with their cards?

 

Getting annoyed because you couldn't get something is one thing, saying an entire group of people don't have the right to do the thing they choose to do because it doesn't meet your own expectations is something VERY different.

[Master Disaster]

1 hour ago, AluminiumTech said:

Not after Vega.

 

They want to take back Nvidia gaming mindshare and marketshare, not Nvidia's mining marketshare.

On the surface, sure but you cannot honestly believe that AMD won't take a hefty chunk of guaranteed income from anyone who offers it.

[n0stalghia]

8 hours ago, Dracarris said:

They would all be nowhere without us buying their shit.

They'd switch to other sectors. Take Nokia for example. Nobody is buying their shit for a decade now, and are they dead? Nah, they're still in there, being market leaders when it comes to 5G equipment and such. 

[Peakfire]

Ethereum 2.0 is Proof-of-Stake, which means no graphics card, ASIC, or CPU will be able to mine it at all. It will be mined by "staking" your existing balance if you have 32ETH (or joining a staking pool otherwise) and becoming a validator.

Obviously the author of the bitcoin.com article and Mitch Stevens didn't do their research, so I wouldn't be surprised if everything else is false.

[RejZoR]

1 hour ago, Elisis said:

They will sell to anyone who will give them money.

Short sighted strategy, especially for AMD with basically zero ecosystem. FidelityFX is sort of getting traction, but is nowhere near NVIDIA's GameWorks ecosystem or the features on driver level that are unique to NVIDIA. And by selling cards to miners you're getting money sure. But you're contributing ZERO to your ecosystem because miners don't care about any of it. Guess why a lot of gamers perpetually buy NVIDIA cards. It's the ecosystem and feature sets that only come with NVIDIA cards. It's these who bring steady year to year income, not miners who don't give a shit who supplies chips, for as long as they mine them money. And games won't die like ever. Mining is a total hit or miss and can totally collapse and die tomorrow. NVIDIA can dick around in market share and ecosystem luxury, AMD shouldn't if they have any long term startegy for gaining market share. If they are not pursuing that, they are stupid.

[TOMPPIX]

Maybe Nvidia sold the stock they had to crypto miners because amd's new GPUs were a big threat. and they don't want to lose to amd, and are now preparing to release the new ti series.

[Master Disaster]

OK, so lets imagine that you are working as a middle manager at Nvidia (though this exercise apples to any business) and you're in charge of operation & marketing analysis. You're job is to look at the different target audiences and weigh up the importance of keeping each audience appeased. I'm also going to ignore the workstation & enterprise markets and concentrate on just gamers and miners.

 

Lets start with gamers, your average gamer will buy maximum 2 cards and will use them for multiple years before replacing them.

 

Your average miner might buy 8 cards every 12 months.

 

Being totally honest and looking at it for a purely business perspective, which group are you going to mark as being the more important to your business?

 

Then lets not forget the fact that, if miners cannot get hold of your GPUs when they want them its very likely they'll go and buy from your competitor instead and once they have their infrastructure set up around your competitor its unlikely they'll return to you in the future.

 

So being totally objective about it, who do you expect Nvidia to give priority access to? The buyers who buy 2 every 3 years or the buyers who buy 24 every 3 years?

[Master Disaster]

41 minutes ago, RejZoR said:

Short sighted strategy, especially for AMD with basically zero ecosystem. FidelityFX is sort of getting traction, but is nowhere near NVIDIA's GameWorks ecosystem or the features on driver level that are unique to NVIDIA. And by selling cards to miners you're getting money sure. But you're contributing ZERO to your ecosystem because miners don't care about any of it. Guess why a lot of gamers perpetually buy NVIDIA cards. It's the ecosystem and feature sets that only come with NVIDIA cards. It's these who bring steady year to year income, not miners who don't give a shit who supplies chips, for as long as they mine them money. And games won't die like ever. Mining is a total hit or miss and can totally collapse and die tomorrow. NVIDIA can dick around in market share and ecosystem luxury, AMD shouldn't if they have any long term startegy for gaining market share. If they are not pursuing that, they are stupid.

Developing your ecosystem requires any business to be making money and you don't make money by cutting off a large chunk of prospective buyers.

 

The people who own the product don't contribute anything to your ecosystem other than the money to keep development rolling.

 

Also its not like the guys in charge of making the GPUs are also responsible for marketing, sales & software development. Each section of the business will have a team dedicated to it.

 

You final point implies that gaming market share & mining market share have a relationship which they don't. If mining disappeared tomorrow AMD would still move all their existing product to gamers. Any business looking to succeed will diversify as much as possible hence why Linus decided to create Floatplane, if one avenue goes away then its good business practice to have a backup. You take any money you can, and as much as you can, while its available.

[Bombastinator]

Running at this from another angle, 175 million would be, assuming every one of these is a 3080fe, a bit over 200,000 cards, how many 3080fe cards were made  for world wide distribution?  Total?

[Master Disaster]

Just now, Bombastinator said:

Running at this from another angle, 175 million would be, assuming every one of these is a 3080fe, a bit over 200,000 cards, how many 3080fe cards were made  for world wide distribution?  Total?

This has been asked and Linus touched on it briefly in WAN Show.

 

The answer is... ????... Nobody knows and its unlikely Nvidia will tell us.

[SAVE-12-HK]

23 hours ago, TOMPPIX said:

seriously not okay, these cards are meant for gaming not sitting in a warehouse mining cryptocurrency. Nvidia just lost a lot of respect.

gamer just game with gpu, nothing more

but miners require lots of gpu, larger potential customer , furthermore who knows if miners will pay back nvidia commisions, its simple business

[Mateyyy]

4 hours ago, AluminiumTech said:

AMD is pissed off that AIBs are selling AIB cards for substantially above MSRP because they want to sell gaming cards to gamers at MSRP.

Yeah, AMD is pissed off that the MSRP they set themselves is too low.

[AlTech]

6 minutes ago, Mateyyy said:

Yeah, AMD is pissed off that the MSRP they set themselves is too low.

I don't know what to say other than this is factually untrue.

 

Their MSRP is easily over double the cost to manufacture it. The BOM cost is under $350.

[Mateyyy]

53 minutes ago, AluminiumTech said:

I don't know what to say other than this is factually untrue.

Factually untrue? 

 

Is that why a Swedish retailer publicly admitted that they couldn't meet the MSRP for the 6800 and 6800XT in an attempt to explain what would look like price gouging to the customers, since the MSRP was below their purchase price? https://web.archive.org/web/20201119135735/https://www.inet.se/kampanj/6000/amd-radeon-rx-6000-serien

 

Is that why the Powercolor has mentioned that margins are at a historical low for a new product? Is that why the 5700XT Red Devil was $40 over MSRP, and the 6800XT Red Devil is $150 over MSRP? https://youtu.be/Lk20IzZN-xk?t=596

 

Or how about ASUS' Strix 6800XT, which costs a cool $899, or $250 over MSRP? But I guess it's got an AIO strapped onto it, so that justifies the price.

Quote

All that premium does increase pricing, $899 (US). The reference cards sell at 649 USD, so that's a price premium of 250 USD. 

https://www.guru3d.com/articles-pages/asus-radeon-rx-6800-xt-strix-oc-liquid-cooled-review,1.html

 

Sure, the Red Devil, Nitro+, Strix - all of them are some of the highest-end aftermarket models as far as modern AMD GPUs are concerned.

Though I think you'll be hard-pressed to find even a basic aftermarket 6800XT that isn't $50+ over MSRP.

 

 

Also, speaking of "factually untrue", you've mentioned several times that AMD is intentionally gimping specifically mining performance on their GPUs. I looked this up for a bit on the internet, and guess what I found? Nada.

53 minutes ago, AluminiumTech said:

The BOM cost is under $350.

^ and where'd this come from?

Have you got anything behind your ridiculous claims, or are you just that unapologetically hypocritical?

[RejZoR]

29 minutes ago, SAVE-12-HK said:

gamer just game with gpu, nothing more

but miners require lots of gpu, larger potential customer , furthermore who knows if miners will pay back nvidia commisions, its simple business

"Gamers just game with GPU, nothing more"

 

What kind of stupid argument is that? It's literally the other way around. It's the miners who just mine and that's that. They don't care about any added value that NVIDIA adds to their GPU's via functionality. They just need GPU that can crunch and that's it.

 

Where gamers stick around because of superior HW encoder, superior selection of software based sync modes for anti-tearing, for additional low latency modes, for upcoming BAR mode, for RTX, for PhysX, for DLSS, for RTX GreenScreen, for RTX Voice. All this is what makes gamers keep buying NVIDIA cards, ultimately even if performance is potentially worse than Radeon, because of these added value features. That's the point of ecosystems, guaranteed loyal user base that sticks with you when performance crown is less than ideal. And it's not just a single purchase now coz mining is in, but they've been around since 1990's when NVIDIA was established. 30 years of loyalty. And while one used to flip flop around brands coz they traded blows in performance department, people care more and more about added functions in recent years. People just don't get it how important this is long term given what stupid excuses about it I read here...

[Bombastinator]

1 hour ago, Master Disaster said:

This has been asked and Linus touched on it briefly in WAN Show.

 

The answer is... ????... Nobody knows and its unlikely Nvidia will tell us.

Yeah I was afraid of that. I watched the episode and  I heard a percentage mentioned and I remember it being ridiculously low, but I couldn’t tell if it included all the other stuff Nvidia does besides gaming cards.  I don’t know what percentage of their business gaming cards is. 200,000 seems like it could be near nothing.  Less than the allocation for a single state or smaller country.  I got no data though.  I understand Sony had like 5 or 6 million PS5s prebuilt before launch to be distributed and they didn’t do much better than Nvidia.

Edited November 28, 2020 by Bombastinator

[AlTech]

7 minutes ago, Mateyyy said:

Factually untrue? 

 

Is that why a Swedish retailer publicly admitted that they couldn't meet the MSRP for the 6800 and 6800XT in an attempt to explain pricing to the customers, since the MSRP was below their purchase price? https://web.archive.org/web/20201119135735/https://www.inet.se/kampanj/6000/amd-radeon-rx-6000-serien

 

Is that why the Powercolor has mentioned that margins are at a historical low for a new product? Is that why the 5700XT Red Devil was $40 over MSRP, and the 6800XT Red Devil is $150 over MSRP? https://youtu.be/Lk20IzZN-xk?t=596

 

Or how about ASUS' Strix 6800XT, which costs a cool $899, or $250 over MSRP? But I guess it's got an AIO strapped onto it, so that justifies the price.

 

Sure, the Red Devil, Nitro+, Strix - all of them are some of the highest-end aftermarket models as far as modern AMD GPUs are concerned.

Though I think you'll be hard-pressed to find even a basic aftermarket 6800XT that isn't $50+ over MSRP.

 

This has nothing to do with MSRP being too low and you know that.

 

The reason AIB cards are too expensive are because they're pissed off with Nvidia not having real MSRPs and so they're marking up AMD AIB cards to maximize their profits.

7 minutes ago, Mateyyy said:

Also, speaking of "factually untrue", you've mentioned several times that AMD is intentionally gimping specifically mining performance on their GPUs. I looked this up for a bit on the internet, and guess what I found? Nada.

That doesn't mean it's not true.

 

Again, coming from MLID's sources and NAAF's sources.

7 minutes ago, Mateyyy said:

^ and where'd this come from?

Have you got anything behind your ridiculous claims, or are you just that unapologetically hypocritical?

MLID's sources.

[Mateyyy]

1 minute ago, AluminiumTech said:

This has nothing to do with MSRP being too low and you know that.

 

The reason AIB cards are too expensive are because they're pissed off with Nvidia not having real MSRPs and so they're marking up AMD AIB cards to maximize their profits.

I respectfully disagree with that. It just seems nonsensical to me, given what I've seen so far.

Also, don't tell me what I do and don't know.

 

1 minute ago, AluminiumTech said:

Again, coming from MLID's sources and NAAF's sources.

MLID's sources.

Pretty much what I expected. I asked for sources, not what some fanboys dreamt of the other night.

[Bombastinator]

58 minutes ago, Mateyyy said:

Factually untrue? 

 

Is that why a Swedish retailer publicly admitted that they couldn't meet the MSRP for the 6800 and 6800XT in an attempt to explain what would look like price gouging to the customers, since the MSRP was below their purchase price? https://web.archive.org/web/20201119135735/https://www.inet.se/kampanj/6000/amd-radeon-rx-6000-serien

 

Is that why the Powercolor has mentioned that margins are at a historical low for a new product? Is that why the 5700XT Red Devil was $40 over MSRP, and the 6800XT Red Devil is $150 over MSRP? https://youtu.be/Lk20IzZN-xk?t=596

 

Or how about ASUS' Strix 6800XT, which costs a cool $899, or $250 over MSRP? But I guess it's got an AIO strapped onto it, so that justifies the price.

 

Sure, the Red Devil, Nitro+, Strix - all of them are some of the highest-end aftermarket models as far as modern AMD GPUs are concerned.

Though I think you'll be hard-pressed to find even a basic aftermarket 6800XT that isn't $50+ over MSRP.

 

 

Also, speaking of "factually untrue", you've mentioned several times that AMD is intentionally gimping specifically mining performance on their GPUs. I looked this up for a bit on the internet, and guess what I found? Nada.

^ and where'd this come from?

Have you got anything behind your ridiculous claims, or are you just that unapologetically hypocritical?

Key word I noticed: retailer

 

retailers don’t make the cards.  They’re a reseller.  They buy finished boxed product wholesale.  Apparently the third party makers are charging the Swedish retailer so much wholesale that he can’t meet the MSRP price.  Apparently he bought the cards before the MSRP was announced and the retailer got bagged.  It could be that the BOM numbers aren’t accurate anymore because of covid, or that the partners are making more margin than they were. If those BOM numbers are accurate @AluminiumTech tech would have to be correct though.  There is assembly cost but it is really really unlikely to be too far over $100USD probably less.  Take both probably inflated numbers and you get cost of ~$450USD.  Add the claimed margin for the AIB partner of 10% and that’s a bit under $500.  Standard brick and mortar retail markup is 60% (most of which is building rent) retail for such a thing would be ~$833USD. and that would be an overbuilt fe style card.  An AIB should be able to do better with volume ordering of parts and any savings their engineers could find. 

Edited November 28, 2020 by Bombastinator

[Bombastinator]

11 minutes ago, Mateyyy said:

I respectfully disagree with that. It just seems nonsensical to me, given what I've seen so far.

Also, don't tell me what I do and don't know.

 

Pretty much what I expected. I asked for sources, not what some fanboys dreamt of the other night.

 

11 minutes ago, Mateyyy said:

I respectfully disagree with that. It just seems nonsensical to me, given what I've seen so far.

Also, don't tell me what I do and don't know.

 

Pretty much what I expected. I asked for sources, not what some fanboys dreamt of the other night.

I will give limited defense of MLID.

 He’s a gossip columnist for sure but one of the weird  things about doing gossip column work is it requires fantastic levels of journalistic rigor because so much of the data they get is so very dirty.  Gossip column work is some of the oldest work in journalism along with war correspondent.  Benjamin Franklin did gossip column work (very badly) it’s one of those fields about which a lot is known.  Several books have been written.
 

Looking up BOM would be pretty easy to do relative to the other kinds of required fact checking, and it would not surprise me at all if an MLID number for that would be dead on.  Gossip columnists have to deal regularly with things pulled directly from the asses of others.  They know what can be checked and what can’t.

[Master Disaster]

16 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

 

I will give limited defense of MLID.

 He’s a gossip columnist for sure but one of the weird  things about doing gossip column work is it requires fantastic levels of journalistic rigor because so much of the data they get is so very dirty.  Gossip column work is some of the oldest work in journalism along with war correspondent.  Benjamin Franklin did gossip column work (very badly) it’s one of those fields about which a lot is known.  Several books have been written.
 

Looking up BOM would be pretty easy to do relative to the other kinds of required fact checking, and it would not surprise me at all if an MLID number for that would be dead on.  Gossip columnists have to deal regularly with things pulled directly from the asses of others.  They know what can be checked and what can’t.

On the flip side of this, even a broken clock is right twice a day. There's really no way to tell if what these types of journalist are saying is based on anything factual at all. Even if they're not the ones making it up, their "source" still might be and as you said, due to the nature of the beast finding out the real truth is very unlikely, if not impossible.

 

I listen to rumours, heck I'll even admit I enjoy a good rumour mill topic but I only believe facts presented with cited sources and verifiable evidence.

[leadeater]

26 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

Looking up BOM would be pretty easy to do relative to the other kinds of required fact checking, and it would not surprise me at all if an MLID number for that would be dead on.  Gossip columnists have to deal regularly with things pulled directly from the asses of others.  They know what can be checked and what can’t.

Or you could watch Gamers Nexus and get far more accurate costs and factory tours, what things cost is well known already. What is not known as it changes all the time is what AMD and Nvidia actually charge for the GPU packages and memory. So if you want to know the real cost of different GPU coolers and board designs watch Gamers Nexus, if you want unsubstantiated rumors and wild ass guesses watch the many various YouTube channels that peddle nonsense.

[Bombastinator]

1 minute ago, Master Disaster said:

On the flip side of this, even a broken clock is right twice a day. There's really no way to tell if what these types of journalist are saying is based on anything factual at all. Even if they're not the ones making it up, their "source" still might be and as you said, due to the nature of the beast finding out the real truth is very unlikely, if not impossible.

 

I listen to rumours, heck I'll even admit I enjoy a good rumour mill topic but I only believe facts presented with cited sources and verifiable evidence.

That applies to “source” stuff though.  This is why BOM is different. It doesn’t require “sourcing”. you look at the board, you get the code numbers and manufacturer of the chips you look up the cost of said chips in lots of X, and you do the math.  Compared to most gossip column stuff ridiculously cut and dried.  So hard a number such a thing might have been done as background work just to check the veracity and accuracy of sources. The problem is inventory. Those costs change over time, and an AIB will have inventory of other parts.