A dodeca like no other - Apple M1X rumors

[williamcll]

So soon after the release of the M1 equipped Macs, Information regarding an improved version built on the same architecture and node named the M1X (name not final) has been found. It is believed that it would be used on the large mac models.

Quote

The M1X will supposedly come with 12 CPU cores compared to the eight that are found in the Apple M1 part. The latter processor has its eight CPU cores divided handily into four performance cores (Firestorm) and four power-efficient cores (Icestorm). However, the M1X wants to step up the performance by offering eight Firestorm cores and four Icestorm cores. With this configuration, not only would the Apple M1X outcore the M1 but it should also easily outscore it in synthetic benchmarks. Along with this reveal of an M1 variant with additional cores, the same leaker also claims that Apple will announce the chip in a press release as part of a MacBook Pro 16 system unveiling in the first quarter of 2021, so in other words, coming soon. Interestingly, a purported source who got to grips with a prototype exclaimed “if you think M1 is fast, you haven’t seen M1X”. It’s a mouth-watering prospect and even those who are not particularly fans of Apple products can still appreciate the quality of the company’s processors and will be curious to see how an M1X might perform.

Source: https://www.notebookcheck.net/Alleged-Apple-M1X-SoC-in-upcoming-MacBook-Pro-16-ready-to-outcore-and-outscore-its-M1-ARM-based-relative.506019.0.html
Thoughts: I wonder how well this would perform against AMD's 3900X/XT/5900X chips. I also wonder would would this be the chip that they might put on the iMac and give it a higher TDP. Certainly exciting.

[Prodigy_Smit]

Ohh this going to be good.

 

3 minutes ago, williamcll said:

Thoughts: I wonder how well this would perform against AMD's 3900X/XT/5900X chips. I also wonder would would this be the chip that they might put on the iMac and give it a higher TDP. Certainly exciting.

Personally I doubt they will refresh the new gen mac pro's with the Apple Silicon chips. I expect like 2 gens of intel based mac pros more then an Apple Silicon one.

 

[Coolmaster]

My guess is that there will be the M1 for low power (13in Macbook, Mac Mini) which we have already seen.

 

Then a midrange one for the 16 MBP and iMac

 

And a high power for iMac Pro and Mac Pro

 

And then a super high power as an option to upgrade on Mac Pro.

[Slottr]

Just now, Smit Devrukhkar said:

Ohh this going to be good.

 

Personally I doubt they will refresh the new gen mac pro's with the Apple Silicon chips. I expect like 2 gens of intel based mac pros more then an Apple Silicon one.

 

Why?

[Coolmaster]

Just now, Smit Devrukhkar said:

Personally I doubt they will refresh the new gen mac pro's with the Apple Silicon chips. I expect like 2 gens of intel based mac pros more then an Apple Silicon one.

 

Apple said their entire lineup will be on ARM by 2022.

[Prodigy_Smit]

1 minute ago, Slottr said:

Why?

Why the Intel thing or the This is going to be good thing?

 

  

1 minute ago, Coolmaster said:

Apple said their entire lineup will be on ARM by 2022.

Exactly. I expect the Mac Pro to be last to update

[Slottr]

Just now, Smit Devrukhkar said:

Why the Intel thing or the This is going to be good thing?

Why Intel? Apple has already said they're moving to arm all round for sure by next year

 

By then I'd more than expect developers to have their software optimized for this architecture, and/or for Rosetta to be even more efficient

 

[Prodigy_Smit]

Just now, Slottr said:

Why Intel? Apple has already said they're moving to arm all round for sure by next year

 

By then I'd more than expect developers to have their software optimized for this architecture, and/or for Rosetta to be even more efficient

 

I believe in Apple but I don't think they will be able to get an Apple Silicon chip that can be competitive with high end Intel and AMD chips in multi-core workloads yet. BUT this can all change depending on the performance of the optimized adobe suite and once devs start updating software for apple CPU's.

 

I still expect next 2 years mac pro's, atleast the high end versions to be Intel based and the base models to be transitioned to AS.

[Techstorm970]

Sure, Intel is likely to recover this decade.

 

But with all due respect, they're really getting their asses handed to them right now.  First by AMD and now Apple.

 

They're bleeding market share, and it's not gonna stop soon.  2021, and quite possibly 2022, are gonna be really ugly for them!

[Coolmaster]

2 minutes ago, Techstorm970 said:

Sure, Intel is likely to recover this decade.

 

But with all due respect, they're really getting their asses handed to them right now.  First by AMD and now Apple.

 

They're bleeding market share, and it's not gonna stop soon.  2021, and quite possibly 2022, are gonna be really ugly for them!

They might have to start contracting their chip production from 3rd parties to catch up, but then that would make them have the same production as their competitors.

[saltycaramel]

If I recall correctly this leaker is said to be a fake leaker. (he just put together 1+1 and copy actual leakers like lovet0dream)

What is listed here is what anybody following rumors can infer. (I wrote all of this myself in other threads in the past days)

 

The icing on the cake is “naming not final”. Oh you. 

[saltycaramel]

Here I tried to put together an updated timeline based on actual leakers/analysts (Bloomberg, lovetodream, Kuo):

 

Quote

So this is my updated AS Macs timeline based on these new leaks:

1) March 2021: iMac 5K 24” miniLed with M1T 16-core (12p+4e) and discrete Apple GPU (“Lifuka”)

2) July 2021: 14” MBP, 16” MBP and dark MacMini with M1X 12-core (8p+4e), plus maybe a “Lifuka” dGPU on the 16” MBP but at reduced TDP compared to the one on the iMac

3) November 2021: iMac 6K 32” miniLED with M2T (5nm+ node) and “SFF” MacPro with M2T, with the big non-SFF Intel MacPro still being sold alongside it for another year


After July 2021, no new laptops until October/November 2022 with the M3. 

An iPad Pro kinda schedule. 1.5 to 2.5yrs.
 

 

(no actual rumor about the 32” 6K iMac, that is just a guess based on the 32” 6K XDR display)

[Kisai]

3 hours ago, Coolmaster said:

Apple said their entire lineup will be on ARM by 2022.

 Press X to doubt.

 

Honestly, the Mac Pro is the only one I don't see being on ARM, at all. Not until there is some way to scale the performance linearly.

 

Like could you stick 8 M1X's on expansion cards like server blades and fill up a Mac Pro motherboard, with the SSD's being the only thing upgradable? Or will they actually design something that has upgradable ram, storage and 64 cores? Because right now it seems completely illogical to switch from Intel for the Mac Pro right after they already redesigned the thing, and have spent nearly a decade on on the previous upgrdable design. The trashcan Mac Pro didn't exactly impress anyone, because that wasn't what people wanted, and this comes back to the same problem, these ARM designs aren't what people want either, not for mac pro at least.

 

Nobody wants SFF devices instead of workstations. Apples MacMini is already the SFF.

 

Sure, if we get to the point that a 64 core, 2TB RAM, and 128TB of storage can be stuffed into a SFF without melting, maybe we don't need an upgradable MacPro anymore, but that has never been the case. In most cases Mac Pro users want the Mac Pro because they have a business need for it that buying a Dell or HP doesn't meet.

 

[TetraSky]

3 hours ago, williamcll said:

I wonder how well this would perform against AMD's 3900X/XT/5900X chips.

Considering they aren't competing in the same universe, doesn't matter.

[Coolmaster]

1 minute ago, Kisai said:

 Press X to doubt.

 

Honestly, the Mac Pro is the only one I don't see being on ARM, at all. Not until there is some way to scale the performance linearly.

 

Like could you stick 8 M1X's on expansion cards like server blades and fill up a Mac Pro motherboard, with the SSD's being the only thing upgradable? Or will they actually design something that has upgradable ram, storage and 64 cores? Because right now it seems completely illogical to switch from Intel for the Mac Pro right after they already redesigned the thing, and have spent nearly a decade on on the previous upgrdable design. The trashcan Mac Pro didn't exactly impress anyone, because that wasn't what people wanted, and this comes back to the same problem, these ARM designs aren't what people want either, not for mac pro at least.

 

You can watch apple's WWDC presentation, they explicitly said their entire lineup would be on arm by 2022.

 

And you can use arm for productivity tasks too, the worlds fastest supercomputer is arm based

[Kisai]

2 minutes ago, Coolmaster said:

You can watch apple's WWDC presentation, they explicitly said their entire lineup would be on arm by 2022.

 

And you can use arm for productivity tasks too, the worlds fastest supercomputer is arm based

Missing the point, that until the M1 came along, there was a very large missing-middle in terms of where the ARM parts go. You're not getting a supercomputer in a SFF.

 

Like I'm almost certain that this means they will give up on the Mac Pro if that's the goal. Which means that they are abandoning all their customers that Final Cut is used by.

[Coolmaster]

1 minute ago, Kisai said:

Missing the point, that until the M1 came along, there was a very large missing-middle in terms of where the ARM parts go. You're not getting a supercomputer in a SFF.

Obliviously they aren't going to get supercomputer performance. But they can make faster arm processors for the mac pro. They can redesign the Mac Pro but I don't see them getting rid of it entirely. There are still professionals that need high performance in a different form factor than the iMac Pro.

[AzzaNezz]

What do you think what will be 16'' macbook price be,and when will be availble to buy it?

[TheSage79]

The three Macs lines they have already transitioned happen to be the three easiest for them to transition. All they really had to do is replace the Intel chips with their own SOC and have enough unified memory to run the apps. For the next tier of Macs, they are going to have to add more than just cores in order to compete with their current offerings.

 

They will have to add more unified memory options, upwards of 64 gigs, more I/O options, and up their GPU to compete with the windows equivalent - some which have low/mid levels discrete GPUs. We are talking current 16" MacBook Pro and 21" iMac level systems and windows equivalent.

 

For the next tier after that, now we are talking about having to compete with system thats have upwards of 128 Gigs of RAM, lots of I/O ports, and Mid to High level discrete GPU's. Think higher end iMac 27" and lower end iMac Pro's. They are going to have to greatly increase the I/O bandwidth of their SOC's and I don't expect Apple to be able to legitimately compete against the likes of RTX 3000 series or AMD 6000 Series without a discrete GPU of its own (unless they want to produce the worlds biggest SOC wafer). Just designing a discrete GPU with its associated I/O channels to the SOC will itself be quite a task. 

 

Then, if they want to compete with the likes of an Intel Xeon System or an AMD Epic system, they are really going to have to up their game with I/O bandwidth, Unified Memory (How does one even do 1.5T of Unified memory?) PCI Express Expansion, etc etc. Thats a lot of design work they need to do to get this rolling. 

[Belgarathian]

I'm really liking the rollout plan by Apple. Start with the low-end hardware, the people who only need up to 16GB RAM. Light gaming, office work, some photo editing, etc. 

 

This will give devs time to come to grips with the base-line hardware, and time for them to rollout updates and patches to their software in time for the release of the next chip and refresh of the professional tools, such as the 16" MBP, and iMac with the Mac Pro to follow last with M2X.

 

 

[Commodus]

1 hour ago, TheSage79 said:

Then, if they want to compete with the likes of an Intel Xeon System or an AMD Epic system, they are really going to have to up their game with I/O bandwidth, Unified Memory (How does one even do 1.5T of Unified memory?) PCI Express Expansion, etc etc. Thats a lot of design work they need to do to get this rolling. 

The short answer is that Apple will likely have to develop support for off-chip memory and enable PCIe peripherals (hopefully dedicated GPUs, too). The two-year transition no doubt gives Apple breathing room for that, and I won't be surprised if the company set its targets with a good idea of when everything would be ready.

[NotTheFirstDaniel]

I'm sorry to be a buzzkill, but could we not post tweets from this guy as news? Time and time again, he has proven to be a con-artist, and I would be stunned if this "report" is nothing more than fiction. He even has a Patreon for faking leaks.

 

I'm not rejecting the possibility of a M1X SOC, but I personally do not trust anything this guy says. Ming Chi Quo, Mark Gurman, and L0vetodream, are people to trust for "Apple leaks".

[Bombastinator]

Sounds nice and all.  Gimme some viable gpu action and we’ll talk.  That’s 6 lanes of pcie 4.0 minimum. 4 lanes of pcie3 won’t cut it.  Neither will 8 even. 

[Blade of Grass]

6 hours ago, Kisai said:

 Press X to doubt.

 

Honestly, the Mac Pro is the only one I don't see being on ARM, at all. Not until there is some way to scale the performance linearly.

 

Like could you stick 8 M1X's on expansion cards like server blades and fill up a Mac Pro motherboard, with the SSD's being the only thing upgradable? Or will they actually design something that has upgradable ram, storage and 64 cores? Because right now it seems completely illogical to switch from Intel for the Mac Pro right after they already redesigned the thing, and have spent nearly a decade on on the previous upgrdable design. The trashcan Mac Pro didn't exactly impress anyone, because that wasn't what people wanted, and this comes back to the same problem, these ARM designs aren't what people want either, not for mac pro at least.

 

Nobody wants SFF devices instead of workstations. Apples MacMini is already the SFF.

 

Sure, if we get to the point that a 64 core, 2TB RAM, and 128TB of storage can be stuffed into a SFF without melting, maybe we don't need an upgradable MacPro anymore, but that has never been the case. In most cases Mac Pro users want the Mac Pro because they have a business need for it that buying a Dell or HP doesn't meet.

 

I suggested in another post that Apple could end up creating a “server grade” ARM chip for use in the Mac Pro, and likely for their own datacenter use (to amortize cost). Wouldn’t be the first time they ventured into servers, and I have no doubt internally they’d be happy to save power if they can scale (since power constraints are a significant issue for companies that have their own DCs, like Apple). 

 

I have no doubt the Mac Pro will transition away from Intel and retain the same form-factor with expandable parts. I expect their more high-powered desktop chips will likely end up supporting expandable RAM, PCIe, etc. Maybe the only thing not upgradable would be CPU?

[Commodus]

Just now, Blade of Grass said:

I suggested in another post that Apple could end up creating a “server grade” ARM chip for use in the Mac Pro, and likely for their own datacenter use (to amortize cost). 

 

I have no doubt the Mac Pro will transition away from Intel and retain the same form-factor with expandable parts. I expect their more high-powered desktop chips will likely end up supporting expandable RAM, PCIe, etc. Maybe the only thing not upgradable would be CPU?

There are claims it could be half the size, but that would be feasible without compromising on expansion using ARM. A large chunk of the Mac Pro's interior is devoted to cooling and airflow.