Do you think things were better before (circa the turn of the millennia)?

[Lord Szechenyi]

3 minutes ago, dizmo said:

How so? We can make use of far more cores now than we could then. That's an increase in optimization, not a decrease.

Arts and entertainment are purely a personal thing, so while that might be true for you, it's not really something you can state as fact as everyone has different tastes.

Quote

Have you ever used 56k internet? Where you have to wait for every image to load on a page? Hell, most pages these days probably wouldn't even load at all. They'd time out. You can call other cell phones, but everyone had a limited number of minutes, and plans often had a very low number of minutes, so people wouldn't talk on their phones for long. A minute, maybe two. People do take walks. The George Carlin comment is from a comedian, and frankly he's missing the point entirely. GPS helps you and lets you know where you're going if you're lost. Not the same thing. CRT has more disadvantages than it does advantages.

How on earth do you think the internet was better?

Movies definitely were not better. Special effects were abysmal, acting was mediocre at best. TV shows were largely a joke, especially if you compare them to what we have today. Sure, there are a few stand outs, however these are most definitely not the norm, so it's not what you can base the entire era on. It's simply not accurate.

 

Society was just as fucked up as it is now.

 

I really don't see how you can say people are underestimating the internet when you never used it back then.

Quote

The internet is a more powerful tool than it ever has been.

 

Quote

Oh child. If you weren't around then how on earth are you acting like you have any idea of what it was like?

Experiencing things from the 90's is nothing like actually living in them.

Stay in your lane.

So, i will start with the first one:

1. Having more cores isn't optimization, but evolution of computing, optimizing the use of the hardware is what i'm referring to (the 2 best examples: Boing ball demo, and doom ports on old machines). Sure, art being personal i can somewhat take that, the enjoyment of something is personal, however it's quality is not. Quality has been on the downside since back then.
2. I still have to wait for images to load, and many websites do need at least 5 to 6 refreshes to load correctly, although i have 4mbps (well, that's what is written on the contract but i usually get 2mbps or less). People wouldn't call each other on CELL phones but rather their home phones (or whatever you want to call them) and even then i know from family that people would not phone much and would go and meet each other instead. George Carlin is first and foremost a philosopher, as someone famous said (aproximately) "If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you". GPS is ass, if you are lost in the woods you are fucked, gps ain't going to help you. as for car driving, well you suck at navigating if you can't read street signs. CRT doesn't have MORE disadvantages than advantages, it has equal. The internet itself was better (not it's speed) as a community, i already mentioned it in other posts with specific examples so i won't repeat myself here. Special Effects were way better, unless we talk about late 90s cgi, they always looked better, when i look at the new Star Trek movies or the new Disney Star Wars movies i want to retch, they are disgusting, but when i look at the original trilogy, i'm amazed on how good it looks, same for Blade Runner (there are many examples i can point out if i have to). Acting was MUCH better than it is today, including classic stars who appear to suck nowadays/are in only for the paycheck. TV Shows sucked back then (except Star Trek), and they suck now too (unfortunately Star Trek is not excluded nowadays). In terms of movies, yes i can base the entire era on it, because there are way more than just Stand-Outs. And no society was not AS fucked up back then, at least not in the 1st world. Also, i used the internet since 2009, and i witnessed the very end of that era and the era of transitioning. (yes of course i never experienced late 90s internet with websites that looked like Spacejam.com but that's missing the point, i used to browse geocities at it's death, and i could still elaborate further on this, that i am in fact used to that internet (you could make the argument that i still am since pictures take almost 10-20 seconds to load)
3. Yes, but for the worse
4. "Experiencing things from the 90's is nothing like actually living in them." that's such a stupid argument that there isn't any point of debating since you can use it as a joker.

 

[Evolution.]

idk everything was black and white back then, I prefer the more colorful world today

[WereCatf]

17 hours ago, dizmo said:

Really? A billion Euros and you wouldn't go back? I sure as fuck would. You'd only have a dozen or so countries you could go to, but a billion Euros can buy an awful lot, and really, you don't need tech.

No, I wouldn't. What would I do with all that money, if there was nothing interesting to spend it on?

17 hours ago, dizmo said:

There were just as many things to enjoy without it, and honestly people were probably better off for it

Maybe other people would be, but not me.

 

Edited November 26, 2020 by colonel_mortis
Removed response to content that has now been removed

[Moonzy]

good ol days is "good" because we enjoyed the time we had back then

give us the same experience now and we probably wouldn't enjoy it

 

i remember being happy using my old PATA hard disk to do things and game

now if you give me a system without SSD i would scream at it.

 

though, the rate of depression might be rising among younger people, so our lifestyle may have affected us in more ways than convenience

[trag1c]

 

1 hour ago, dizmo said:

Big ole snip

 

Agreed, however it's also a double edged sword. It's now easier than ever to produce junk that no one needs, and it's killing the planet in more ways than one.

The adage "they don't make things like they used to" is very, very true. However it also comes down to people being cheap. You can buy quality. Most don't.

I would somewhat agree but I would be putting that on solutionism from big business and mindless people. Probably one of the worst things for this earth are cell phones because you can't recycle them. Electronics in general are horrible for recycling because it takes way more energy to extract the materials from it than what it takes to extract and process new materials from the earth. Now you couple that with a device that just about everyone in the western world has plus it has an update cycle of ~1 year. Most people I know are upgrading at most every 2 years with their old one probably heading to the recycle. I might be a bit biased on this because I have zero interest in phones but whats the point of upgrading every 1-2 years. As an upgrade these things basically increment the number affixed to the end of the name and give you some more minor useless features that the vast majority of people will not use yet they still upgrade.

 

Then you also have these companies that are trying to introduce new tech into old technologies with no particular goal in mind as to what problem they're actually trying to solve. Probably the worst one I can think of for this is smart fridges. At the end of the day all it has to do is keep my f***ing beer cold. Why does it need some massive touch screen that I can watch my food on. Why the f**k is there an app that I can watch a live stream of my food on. What is this actually trying to solve it's a god damn fridge. You can slap a display on anything and add smart to the name and people will buy that shit like no tomorrow without a single thought as to why they're buying the extra e waste model.

 

So while I agree they don't make things like they used to I think it more has to do with this incessant need for the latest and greatest(?) and the companies who are willing to solve problems that don't exist by slapping wifi and a touch screen to just about anything. 

 

As far as people buying cheap that will always be the case. Most people don't want to spend too much of their hard earned dollars and I can't say I blame them. But the sad reality is a quality product doesn't have to be expensive and a cheap one doesn't have to mean its crap. Big chain store will slap their brand name on anything as long as its the cheapest one they can get from china because people will shop at them even though they sell garbage products packaged with children's tears. But I find small business typically to be better for buying the cheap stuff at because as a small business the most valuable thing you own is your reputation so they will vet their products more thoroughly.

[Rocketdog2112]

13 hours ago, Letgomyleghoe said:

remember when the tv turned off at 12:00 and played the national anthem

Yep, and at 10:00 pm just before the news came on, a photo of a lit street light on a dark street asking "Do you know where your children are?" Yeah... I'm that old.

[Wheresmehammer]

12 hours ago, Lord Szechenyi said:

So, i will start with the first one:

1. Having more cores isn't optimization, but evolution of computing, optimizing the use of the hardware is what i'm referring to (the 2 best examples: Boing ball demo, and doom ports on old machines). Sure, art being personal i can somewhat take that, the enjoyment of something is personal, however it's quality is not. Quality has been on the downside since back then.
2. I still have to wait for images to load, and many websites do need at least 5 to 6 refreshes to load correctly, although i have 4mbps (well, that's what is written on the contract but i usually get 2mbps or less). People wouldn't call each other on CELL phones but rather their home phones (or whatever you want to call them) and even then i know from family that people would not phone much and would go and meet each other instead. George Carlin is first and foremost a philosopher, as someone famous said (aproximately) "If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you". GPS is ass, if you are lost in the woods you are fucked, gps ain't going to help you. as for car driving, well you suck at navigating if you can't read street signs. CRT doesn't have MORE disadvantages than advantages, it has equal. The internet itself was better (not it's speed) as a community, i already mentioned it in other posts with specific examples so i won't repeat myself here. Special Effects were way better, unless we talk about late 90s cgi, they always looked better, when i look at the new Star Trek movies or the new Disney Star Wars movies i want to retch, they are disgusting, but when i look at the original trilogy, i'm amazed on how good it looks, same for Blade Runner (there are many examples i can point out if i have to). Acting was MUCH better than it is today, including classic stars who appear to suck nowadays/are in only for the paycheck. TV Shows sucked back then (except Star Trek), and they suck now too (unfortunately Star Trek is not excluded nowadays). In terms of movies, yes i can base the entire era on it, because there are way more than just Stand-Outs. And no society was not AS fucked up back then, at least not in the 1st world. Also, i used the internet since 2009, and i witnessed the very end of that era and the era of transitioning. (yes of course i never experienced late 90s internet with websites that looked like Spacejam.com but that's missing the point, i used to browse geocities at it's death, and i could still elaborate further on this, that i am in fact used to that internet (you could make the argument that i still am since pictures take almost 10-20 seconds to load)
3. Yes, but for the worse
4. "Experiencing things from the 90's is nothing like actually living in them." that's such a stupid argument that there isn't any point of debating since you can use it as a joker.

 

You did not experience the 90's so don't understand the 90's.

[aDoomGuy]

On 11/25/2020 at 5:37 AM, Sakuriru said:

Get rid of all portable devices. Limit your internet speed to 56k with Windows 98. The only way you're allowed to talk to someone is over the phone. Also you're not allowed to call anyone else's cell phone. You're also not allowed to use any consumer GPS device (time to get out the map). Replace your TV with a big ole CRT. Oh and you're not allowed to use anything more recent than VHS.

 

You tell me how good it is. I'll wait.

Well... my uncle had consumer GPS device in his boat long before the new millennium so that's just plain wrong. I was allowed to call anyone elses cell phone long before the new millennium as well so I don't know where you got that from..? Also I'm pretty sure we had ADSL before the year 2000 as well. So I dunno what you're on about there...

[trag1c]

2 minutes ago, aDoomGuy said:

Well... my uncle had consumer GPS device in his boat long before the new millennium so that's just plain wrong. I was allowed to call anyone elses cell phone long before the new millennium as well so I don't know where you got that from..? Also I'm pretty sure we had ADSL before the year 2000 as well. So I dunno what you're on about there...

A lot of it was available but not widely or simply wasn't affordable for most. The first car with GPS was the 1990 Mazda Eunos Cosmo which the top trim would have been around 47-50k USD back in 1990 which would have been around 100k USD when adjusted for inflation. GPS still isn't a standard feature on most vehicles. You have to go several trim levels up to get it. I have a 2019 GMC AT4 Sierra which only gets GPS when you go to the SLT trim which is the 2nd highest trim tier. Some of the cheaper cars out there don't even have an option for GPS..

 

As far as internet goes there were still 34% of users on dial up in the US in 2000. Much like today its all about location, location, location. Hell the ASDL spec wasn't even certified till 98. Canada even had 336000 users on dial up in 2010..

 

Cell phone was the same deal as internet a lot of places simply didn't have coverage till the turn of the millennium. 

 

Besides the monetary factors a lot of it was if you were in the least bit rural area you simply didn't have access to any of these emerging technologies.

[aDoomGuy]

6 minutes ago, trag1c said:

A lot of it was available but not widely or simply wasn't affordable for most. The first car with GPS was the 1990 Mazda Eunos Cosmo which the top trim would have been around 47-50k USD back in 1990 which would have been around 100k USD when adjusted for inflation. GPS still isn't a standard feature on most vehicles. You have to go several trim levels up to get it. I have a 2019 GMC AT4 Sierra which only gets GPS when you go to the SLT trim which is the 2nd highest trim tier. Some of the cheaper cars out there don't even have an option for GPS..

 

As far as internet goes there were still 34% of users on dial up in the US in 2000. Much like today its all about location, location, location. Hell the ASDL spec wasn't even certified till 98. Canada even had 336000 users on dial up in 2010..

 

Cell phone was the same deal as internet a lot of places simply didn't have coverage till the turn of the millennium. 

 

Besides the monetary factors a lot of it was if you were in the least bit rural area you simply didn't have access to any of these emerging technologies.

That may be correct. However just because it's not affordable by most doesn't mean it didn't exist. My uncle had a job that paid well and I remember when he got that GPS unit and also the sonar, I was like dang.. now we go hunting for submarines and stuff? No, just fish lol. Anyway.. GPS is optional extra on many if not most vehicles still, this is correct. I don't remember exactly when we got ADSL in our area, but I'm pretty ...95% sure it was before the year 2000, but yeah my country (Norway) adapts new communication company quickly. As for cell phones, yeah they where mostly usable in places where a certain number of people live or around main roads leading to such places. Still though... if you travel enough into the wild you will probably find yourself without a cell network, it also depends on your service provider. My last one had something I would describe as 90's coverage. So not an awful lot has changed there either. Still rural areas get screwed when it comes to technology, so it's just as bad now as it was back then IMO. Only now pretty much all technology has built in planned obsolescence into them.

[WkdPaul]

21 hours ago, SolarNova said:

I think the biggest 'negative' present since pre 2000 is the mainstreaming of the internet and social media, its turned a lot of the communities that were already in existence pre 2000, into cesspools of trolls mixed with snowflakes and SJWs. Its a real sh*t show now. Even forums today are nothing like back then, heavy moderation and eggshell walking is more than just common, its 'standard'.

heavy moderation and eggshell walking is standard BECAUSE of trolls, disrespectful statements, and lack of empathy, if you think getting backlash because of a statement you made is due to "snowflakes" and "SJWs", think again. Discrimination is an issue with the person making the statement, not the people getting offended by it.

[Tan3l6]

The amount of socio/pychopaths always stays the same, and that's scary, because there is no "psychopath radar"

I fear those more than sjw or trolls...

[SpaceGhostC2C]

4 minutes ago, aDoomGuy said:

I don't remember exactly when we got ADSL in our area, but I'm pretty ...95% sure it was before the year 2000, but yeah my country (Norway) adapts new communication company quickly. 

We even had cable internet in South America at that time (by "we" I mean not particularly rich people). Of course adoption is gradual, but I wonder how many people stating "not everyone had X in the '90s!" realize that not everyone today has the things they consider advantages of "this time".

Overall, the post you quoted underestimates the age of many things (not just in terms of existence, but also availability).

 

In any case, as i said in my previous post, I also think people overestimate how much having this or that gadget matters, and therefore how important it is to date them precisely.

[Lord Szechenyi]

11 hours ago, Moonzy said:

good ol days is "good" because we enjoyed the time we had back then

give us the same experience now and we probably wouldn't enjoy it

No, i didn't enjoy it back then, it's just that today is so fucking horrible that even back then is better.

[Lord Szechenyi]

1 hour ago, Wheresmehammer said:

You did not experience the 90's so don't understand the 90's.

This is still a dumb point

"Hurr Durr you never worked in politic so you don't understand politics"

see how dumb it is?

[Wheresmehammer]

Just now, Lord Szechenyi said:

This is still a dumb point

"Hurr Durr you never worked in politic so you don't understand politics"

see how dumb it is?

Well you don't understand politics fully if you have never been in politics, it's the truth, experiencing it is far more than theoretical work.

[Lord Szechenyi]

1 hour ago, aDoomGuy said:

Well... my uncle had consumer GPS device in his boat long before the new millennium so that's just plain wrong. I was allowed to call anyone elses cell phone long before the new millennium as well so I don't know where you got that from..? Also I'm pretty sure we had ADSL before the year 2000 as well. So I dunno what you're on about there...

there was even optic fiber before 2000, but the costs were so unbelievably high, that it was a no-go, same for ADSL until about 2002.

Calling cell phones was always possible, but it cost a shit ton of money

Spoiler

Remember Phone Cards? 

 

[WkdPaul]

* thread locked *

 

Cleaning to do, won't be done by me of the other mods that participated. Not sure if it'll be unlocked after.

 

Please, keep the Community Standards in mind when interacting with others.

 

EDIT: The topic has now been unlocked, please don't stray into controversial topics. Three posts have been removed or redacted.

Edited November 26, 2020 by colonel_mortis
Unlocked

[SolarNova]

5 hours ago, wkdpaul said:

heavy moderation and eggshell walking is standard BECAUSE of trolls, disrespectful statements, and lack of empathy, if you think getting backlash because of a statement you made is due to "snowflakes" and "SJWs", think again. Discrimination is an issue with the person making the statement, not the people getting offended by it.

oh the irony

[WkdPaul]

2 minutes ago, SolarNova said:

oh the irony

That's pretty much how I see your statement, yes.

[Wheresmehammer]

Just now, wkdpaul said:

That's pretty much how I see your statement, yes.

I see two things, victimhood and sense of superiority, there is a balance to be reached.

It's wrong to assume either is correct or wrong as not everyone is intelligent or well read enough to understand everyone's argument, even moderators.

 

It becomes a slippery slope, so really if a moderator were to lay the law down, it can be oppressive to either direction.

 

However both superiority and victimhood are the same things, just opposites in how they function but revolve around the same thing = power.

[WkdPaul]

9 minutes ago, Wheresmehammer said:

I see two things, victimhood and sense of superiority, there is a balance to be reached.

It's wrong to assume either is correct or wrong as not everyone is intelligent or well read enough to understand everyone's argument, even moderators.

 

It becomes a slippery slope, so really if a moderator were to lay the law down, it can be oppressive to either direction.

 

However both superiority and victimhood are the same things, just opposites in how they function but revolve around the same thing = power.

True, but for now all I see is "muh freedom of speech" statements without nuances, and statements / opinions that classify anyone complaining as a snowflake or SJW.

 

As a mod, I can tell you that's far from the truth. People can be horrible at times. If you feel like you have to walk on eggshells, then there's an issue with your opinion, or the platform you're on isn't appropriate for you (exemple ; the LTT forum has a no politics rule, if you're not happy about that, that's on you because it's a rule every members has to follow).

Edited November 26, 2020 by wkdpaul

[Wheresmehammer]

Just now, wkdpaul said:

True, but for now all I see is "muh freedom of speech" statements without nuances, and that classify anyone complaining as a snowflake or SJW.

 

As a mod, I can tell you that's far from the truth. People can be horrible at times. If you feel like you have to walk on eggshells, then there's an issue with your opinion, or the platform you're on isn't appropriate for you (exemple ; the LTT forum has a no politics rule, if you're not happy about that, that's on you because it's a rule every members has to follow).

Oh, i am quite glad in honesty.

 

And yes there was a glimpse of that kind of discussion, i see that you understood how the conversation came about though, not politics related just used as reference by the OP.

[WkdPaul]

2 minutes ago, Wheresmehammer said:

Oh, i am quite glad in honesty.

 

And yes there was a glimpse of that kind of discussion, i see that you understood how the conversation came about though, not politics related just used as reference by the OP.

The politics discussion was just an exemple (it was recently a big issue because we went from letting that pass in status updates to a complete forum wide ban). I just find the reply I quote was quite ironic in it's language (maybe it's wasn't presented properly, or maybe I didn't interpreted it as the poster meant). Still, complaining that you have to walk on eggshells because of snowflakes and SWJ shows the member has opinions that aren't popular, and somehow blames others for it.

 

I have controversial opinions on stuff, I know it can cause issues in discussions, I don't bring it up unless it's relevant, and I certainly don't put the fault of it on others when I do bring it up and have to argue my point.

[Vishera]

I think that until smartphones were popular the Internet was much better,

The excitement from chats,MSN Messenger,Blogs were nice,tumblr,flickr my space were the social media back then.

The best thing was that social media was not monopolized and manipulated like it is today,no tracking or spyware,no micro transactions in games,

and Windows was actually good.

It started to die in 2010~2011 - I mean how many people surfed facebook and had smartphones in 2009? - not many.

Games from the end of the era:

Call of Duty Modern Warefare 2

Splinter Cell Conviction

Crysis

Resident Evil 4

Dragon Age Origins

Batman Arkham Asylum

Dirt 2

Left 4 Dead 2

Borderlands

 

Mirror's Edge

And much more!

 

It was a glorious era!

Don't forget the XBOX 360 (scummy Microsoft introduced XBOX live subscriptions!) and Playstation 3 (Here you don't need to pay for an internet connection twice),

And playing Modern Warefare 2 multiplayer on consoles was interesting due to lack of moderation and a lot of little kids cursing and cheating,there was fun in it i won't lie