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YouTube, Twitter & Facebook to join forces in an effort to curb fake Covid19 news

Message added by SansVarnic,

Please note the fine line where politics can creep in and refrain from replies that will introduce it.

 

Thank you.

11 minutes ago, Letgomyleghoe said:

it is though, science is constantly changing, things that were once thought to be true are now not thought to be true, and it will happen in the future. you can't call it the truth if it can be proven false.

It really isn't. Saying 5G causes COVID is factually wrong, saying the earth is flat is factually wrong, saying viruses don't exist is factually wrong.

 

The issue is that nobody outside of science understands the difference between a theory and a scientific theory.

 

If I said "Santa and the Easter bunny are the same person" (operating under the assumption that both actually existed) that would be a theory, its my opinion on a subject.

 

For an idea to become a theory at all in science it has to make a prediction which must be measurable/demonstrable/observable and repeatable. Think of Einsteins theory of relativity for example, we have observed that his predictions happen and that those predictions have been observed by different sources. Its the best guess we currently have but is still a theory because we haven't yet proved it to be true.

 

When a scientist calls something a theory they don't mean its an idea they jotted down on a napkin at the bar last night.

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I remember when Experts stated we were headed to a new global ice age in the 1970's.

I ride motorcycles. I grew up on and around them my entire life and know very well how to maintain them, yet I am no expert. I know many mechanics who work in dealerships with a certificate on the wall basically stating they are experts in their field. They can't diagnose or fix shit. Matter of fact, they need to find a different occupation. That's how i fell about the field of Science.

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9 minutes ago, Master Disaster said:

I totally agree that censorship is a VERY bad idea, all that will do is let the preachers exclaim that the censorship is proof of them being correct but thats not the only way to deal with it. Adding clear labelling that the news is disputed or flat out fake along with context and links to facts and materials explaining why will do a lot more good than the current system.

We agree then, I think this is probably the best way to go about this.

16 minutes ago, poochyena said:

The overwhelming scientific community do not say any of that.

Sometimes, even the worlds leading experts can be extremely wrong (Fun fact: Schrodinger's cat was actually meant to mock quantum theory and show that it was absurd.), which is why it's better to just provide the information from the experts, while not outright censoring the potentially misleading content. 

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5 minutes ago, poochyena said:

its true because there is no force stopping people from identifying how ever they want.

But are gender Experts wrong?

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1 minute ago, Master Disaster said:

It really isn't. Saying 5G causes COVID is factually wrong, saying the earth is flat is factually wrong, saying viruses don't exist is factually wrong.

That is true, for these specific things, but we don't know that much about covid and information is changing often. Like half a year ago, the health experts were saying that wearing masks in public was unnecessary, but as it turned out, wearing masks in public would have actually helped a ton.

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4 minutes ago, Rocketdog2112 said:

But are gender Experts wrong?

about what? This is so off topic. I'm going to trust experts on subjects in their field, as should everyone.

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1 minute ago, Rocketdog2112 said:

But are gender Experts wrong?

Ahh, reductio ad absurdum.

 

The way someone feels is not quantifiable by anybody. It is a fact that transgender people choose to be labelled incorrectly according to traditional standards but that's their own choice.

 

Again nobody is saying these people cannot believe anything they choose, only that they cannot force their factually incorrect beliefs onto others.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think many trans people go around trying to convert others to their way of thinking.

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3 minutes ago, Master Disaster said:

For an idea to become a theory at all in science it has to make a prediction which must be measurable/demonstrable/observable and repeatable. Think of Einsteins theory of relativity for example, we have observed that his predictions happen and that those predictions have been observed by different sources. Its the best guess we currently have but is still a theory because we haven't yet proved it to be true.

 

When a scientist calls something a theory they don't mean its an idea they jotted down on a napkin at the bar last night.

yes ik and i stated that previously

Quote me for a reply, React if I was helpful, informative, or funny

 

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24 minutes ago, Rocketdog2112 said:

But yet people can self Identify as a different sex (or no sex at all) and that is supported by Experts?

Trying to correlate the unrelatable.

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12 minutes ago, poochyena said:

about what? This is so off topic. I'm going to trust experts on subjects in their field, as should everyone.

I'm just using your analogy of "You can't point to a cat and saying its a bird." although gender experts support the self identify crap. Hence, not all Experts are right and use their position to push an agenda.

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8 minutes ago, PCGuy_5960 said:

That is true, for these specific things, but we don't know that much about covid and information is changing often. Like half a year ago, the health experts were saying that wearing masks in public was unnecessary, but as it turned out, wearing masks in public would have actually helped a ton.

Correct and when things change scientists update information for the public to read which brings us back to labelling, context and correct information.

 

I do understand why some people have reservations though, its not like any of the 3 involved platforms have a great track record in this area.

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9 minutes ago, Master Disaster said:

Ahh, reductio ad absurdum.

 

I had to Wiki that.... Interesting :)

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4 minutes ago, Rocketdog2112 said:

I'm just using your analogy of "You can't point to a cat and saying its a bird." although gender experts support the self identify crap. Hence, not all Experts are right...

How you feel is not quantifiable, the difference between a cat and a bird very much is.

 

The experts say trans people deserve the right to choose their own label (and I agree), that doesn't mean those experts believe trans people actually change sex.

 

Please drop this subject now, its off topic and only going to end with arguments.

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6 minutes ago, Master Disaster said:

Correct and when things change scientists update information for the public to read which brings us back to labelling, context and correct information.

 

I do understand why some people have reservations though, its not like any of the 3 involved platforms have a great track record in this area.

Yes, but if you start censoring people based on the expert opinion, you can only go off of the currently available information, so, hypothetically speaking, you could censor information that might turn out to be true. (Some will obviously never become true, but you get the point)

 

This wouldn't be an issue if the post wasn't censored, but the expert opinion was clearly displayed alongside it. My only problem is with censorship.

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3 minutes ago, PCGuy_5960 said:

Yes, but if you start censoring people based on the expert opinion, you can only go off of the currently available information, so, hypothetically speaking, you could censor information that might turn out to be true. (Some will obviously never become true, but you get the point)

 

This wouldn't be an issue if the post wasn't censored, but the expert opinion was clearly displayed alongside it. My only problem is with censorship.

Fair point and again we're in agreement.

 

It used to happen a lot back in the early days of science, someone comes up with the correct information, gets laughed out of the room while presenting it then dies only for it to later be proven to be correct. The great thing about science these days is anybody is free to make a proposal and no scientist would ever want opinions censored but when something is flat out lying it needs to be identified as such.

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13 minutes ago, Rocketdog2112 said:

I had to Wiki that.... Interesting :)

Yeah, its actually a very good technique used by professional debaters. You post wasn't exactly the dictionary definition but I tend to see is as when someone reduces an argument down to the absurd to make a point.

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24 minutes ago, Rocketdog2112 said:

I'm just using your analogy of "You can't point to a cat and saying its a bird." although gender experts support the self identify crap. Hence, not all Experts are right and use their position to push an agenda.

i.. don't understand how those two things connect. No expert would look at a cat and say its a bird.

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3 hours ago, Master Disaster said:

The issue is that nobody outside of science understands the difference between a theory and a scientific theory.

If I had a nickle for every time I had to explain to someone the highest tier something in the realm of science can achieve is Theory, because everything in science has to falsifiable - As in it has to have a condition that if met will prove that the thing is false, So actual scientific theories are not hypotheses like the colloquial English definition of the word, and that "Law" is the field of mathematics, meaning numbers can be used to represent the data.
I'd probably have enough to pay for someone to go to college and get a science degree.

A way Ive come to explain this is that Laws is like behavior written in game code while a theory is about a non programed observable behavior that is consistently repeatable
A "Final Boss OHKO attack" - If the code directly sets the player as knocked out or has something like "HP = 0" or Damage = PlayerHP - Its a law.
If the attack just does some very high random number and it can't be definitively proven the range of the random number then its a theory.
(Not exactly a perfect example but it gives the idea)

2 hours ago, Master Disaster said:

The great thing about science these days is anybody is free to make a proposal and no scientist would ever want opinions censored but when something is flat out lying it needs to be identified as such.

Yep. Your not discredited for being skeptical of current understanding, or being wrong on something if current understanding, and evidence pointed to you being correct.
But you will get discredited by the scientific community for lying, and misrepresenting ideas or evidence.
This does mean those who want to maintain their integrity may distance themselves from you if you are lying.

I'm starting to see a lot of parallels because there have been a couple of scientists who completely destroyed their careers, and were shut out of scientific journals because they kept lying. Would that be considered censorship? Because it is the forum of scientists to the public. - But of course these journals often don't want to associate themselves with publishing works from the folks who try to prove the earth is flat, that ancient Mayans rode dinosaurs, ancient astronaut theorists exc exc

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6 hours ago, Taf the Ghost said:

So they're going to conspire to dictate the "correct" view on a topic they themselves made highly controversial in the first place? Actual reason is they need to rewrite history about how stupid they've been. This is part of the reason the Media loves to encourage the "woowoo" conspiracy types by shining a light on them. This is what an actual conspiracy looks like. There's really no hidden, secretive groups that try to rule the world. They all have websites, lol.

 

This is also probably Facebook's attempt to undo the self-inflicted disaster that was "Fake News". (It's been 4 years, so it's easy to forget that was a Facebook + American media initiative that backfired on them in ways few things ever have.)  So this move should also be read as an attempt to claw back some authoritative clout... by the leading tech censors of the day. 2020 sure as heck ain't over yet.

 

Sub-story: Vaccines are big, big business. Big, big business heavily controlled by governments, in fact. Or maybe "circular graft systems" works better. Where the corruption begins & ends is pretty hard to say, but the key part of vaccines to note is they are specifically lethal injections. It's just, in theory, a trade off a few dead from the vaccines compared to a lot dead from the lack of the vaccine. If it works. Most vaccines aren't anywhere close to as potent they like to make them out to be. The ones that work, work well for specific types of immunization programs. What this is mostly about is what's going to be coming: because of the asymptomatic transmission & inoculation rates being so high, even tortured statistics won't get you a statistically significant result for the utility of a vaccine. A lot of countries will fast track the vaccine. The numbers won't actually show anything, but they'll start forcing it. That'll then cause a nasty response. That's easily predictable. This is a move to have a prepared "defense". There's 10s of billions of USD riding on this for a lot of people. This is the way they think, so that's one section of what is going on.

 

Sub-story 2: "FullFact" is a fun bunch, being the central hub for this. One of those "good named, well connected" NGOs. Funding from the foundations associated with Google & eBay founders. So, Google (via YouTube) will tell you what is "True!" via a group funded by Google money. I guess "circular reasoning" would be kind of lost on them, eh?

 

Not sure if serious 😧...

 

4 hours ago, DeScruff said:

It is my problem when he is annoying everyone around him and will not take a "stop talking about this subject" seriously. - And the boss refuses to do anything about it.

He believes PLENTY of other things that do get in the way, guy mixes chemicals when cleaning, refuses to not to cause some theory that chemical companies just don't want you making a superior product. - Not that some chemical combinations are actually deadly. - And yes I have looked up some concoctions hes made and found things that are toxic, or will cause chemical burns.
And don't give me a "Just let him do it" cause no hes likely to cause harm towards others by... I dunno mixing ammonia and bleach to give a well known example.

 

Advice, if you ever see him mixing acetone and any form of hydrogen peroxide more concentrated than bleach, run, it's going to explode.

 

3 hours ago, Master Disaster said:

People have the right to believe what they choose, they do not have the right to force those opinions on others.

 

This. 

 

3 hours ago, Master Disaster said:

It really isn't. Saying 5G causes COVID is factually wrong, saying the earth is flat is factually wrong, saying viruses don't exist is factually wrong.

 

The issue is that nobody outside of science understands the difference between a theory and a scientific theory.

 

If I said "Santa and the Easter bunny are the same person" (operating under the assumption that both actually existed) that would be a theory, its my opinion on a subject.

 

For an idea to become a theory at all in science it has to make a prediction which must be measurable/demonstrable/observable and repeatable. Think of Einsteins theory of relativity for example, we have observed that his predictions happen and that those predictions have been observed by different sources. Its the best guess we currently have but is still a theory because we haven't yet proved it to be true.

 

When a scientist calls something a theory they don't mean its an idea they jotted down on a napkin at the bar last night.

 

To add to this. Any scientific theory or for that matter scientific law you hear about is an idea that multiple independent groups have tried, and most importantly, failed to prove is false. At no point has it been proven true, it's merely failed, after much effort, to be proved false.

 

As an aside something being proved false also doesn't mean it isn't somtimes still widely distributed by experts. Newtons Laws of motion for example are from a purely scientific standpoint completely wrong. However the flaws in the theory only become obvious at very extreme velocities, (GPS for example has to account for it due to the speed at which GPS satellites move), so in the majority of situations there's no harm in letting people treat Newtons laws as correct and arguably, since they're simpler than the currently accepted accurate solution, (relativity), they're less likely for people to make mistakes with. (Though people still do).

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5 hours ago, PCGuy_5960 said:

Yes, but if you start censoring people based on the expert opinion, you can only go off of the currently available information, so, hypothetically speaking, you could censor information that might turn out to be true. (Some will obviously never become true, but you get the point)

Welcome to academia. You see it all the time in "climate science" 😂.

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This is like the worst alliance I can think of. 

 

The literal inventors of fake news against fake news? 

 

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Yes, because Social Media has been a bastion of non-bias information.....

 

They are treading dangerously close to becoming a "publisher".

Judge the product by its own merits, not by the Company that created it.

 

Don't dilute <good thing> by always trying to focus on, and drag conversation back to, <bad thing>.

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Facebook has been wrong before many times about many things, they have no business steering the direction of peoples thoughts or conversations. People are so confused these days about reality they think it's ok to get info from stuff biased humans have written, and there seams to be no one impartial. I for one can't even read the wiki about my own-self or my area of expertise with out seeing untruthful biased info. People "do there own research" pull up wiki and take it as fact, not a clue in the galaxy how to do real research.

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On 11/20/2020 at 12:39 PM, Rocketdog2112 said:

I remember when Experts stated we were headed to a new global ice age in the 1970's.

I ride motorcycles. I grew up on and around them my entire life and know very well how to maintain them, yet I am no expert. I know many mechanics who work in dealerships with a certificate on the wall basically stating they are experts in their field. They can't diagnose or fix shit. Matter of fact, they need to find a different occupation. That's how i fell about the field of Science.

For the most part I agree. I am also a tech and I have seen a lot of parts till it starts guys. But where I disagree with you is in the scientific field. Unlike a tech whos diagnostic is his opinion alone when your publish a scientific paper you can bet that it will be peer reviewed and tested which in turn creates a concensus in regards to the subject. As a tech no one will question when you blindly throw a PCM/ECM/ECU at a truck that has a no start but if you try to claim the world is a cube as a scientist you will be ostracized for being an idiot.

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