Apple Drops App Store Fees to 15% for All Developers Making Under $1 Million From App Store

[Bombastinator]

38 minutes ago, pas008 said:

if steam can do shit like it apple can do it too  considering they own the platform and have all the data at their finger tips

Perhaps.  Would depend on what their system is.  Steam would have been set up with that purpose though.   Bolting on something else later might have limitations.  One example I can think of is “no man’s sky” vs “subnautica”. Subnautica had a bug reporting system built into the game and the result is a pretty painless bug experience that works well.  “No man’s sky” didn’t though and the result is a bug reporting system so awful it barely gets used and as a result there are numerous massive bugs in the game.

[Guest]

3 hours ago, pas008 said:

should be like under 500k/1m 15% but after 10 million the 30% should start dropping back down like 5% every 5million and stop at 15%

 

or they shouldnt be getting those corp tax breaks at all

I think you'd be surprised just how much money Apple developers make. Think about it:

- In 2017, there were 738 million active iPhone/iOS users (from a quick google search - just an estimate of course)

- Let's say 10%, a fairly nominal value, buy Minecraft on the app store - $7 USD for one of the top paid apps on store.

- Thats still 516.6 million dollars. 

 

So keep in mind just how many iOS devices are out there. 1 million dollars gross (because they havent taken anything yet), is a low bar. 

[Video Beagle]

5 hours ago, Bombastinator said:

 @Video Beagle makes an interesting point though it’s a problem I expect is already solved in some form or fashion. 

I've argued this as a reason against a tiered system in the past. It's a very obvious exploit of the system, so I'd guess Apple either has a way to deal with it or just decided that it's not enough to offset the positives of the move.

[pas008]

11 minutes ago, RorzNZ said:

I think you'd be surprised just how much money Apple developers make. Think about it:

- In 2017, there were 738 million active iPhone/iOS users (from a quick google search - just an estimate of course)

- Let's say 10%, a fairly nominal value, buy Minecraft on the app store - $7 USD for one of the top paid apps on store.

- Thats still 516.6 million dollars. 

 

So keep in mind just how many iOS devices are out there. 1 million dollars gross (because they havent taken anything yet), is a low bar. 

so apple gets 221m for their platform eco system and then gets corp tax cuts off your scenario

just for hosting and doing some security checks

talk about highway robbery

[Trik'Stari]

5 hours ago, Blademaster91 said:

I think it would force apple to charge developers a more fair fee, rather than give large companies a lower rate, but I doubt devs would drop apple because iphone buyers have money and are more likely to spend on apps. If apple would charge the devs making under 1 million a lower developer fee, like cutting it from $99 a year to $50 that would help more than just reducing store fees.

Also interesting how everyone was saying the 30% cut was good, now that apple is charging less its suddenly a step in the right direction lol.

 

Oh I have no doubt that the devs wouldn't do it. My point was that they could if they had the stones.

[Kroon]

47 minutes ago, RorzNZ said:

- Let's say 10%, a fairly nominal value, buy Minecraft on the app store - $7 USD for one of the top paid apps on store.

- Thats still 516.6 million dollars. 

 

Your numbers are way way off.    Fun thing is that Mojang AB is still a Swedish company and here all the finances of AB (similar to INC in US) are considered official document.  In total Mojang turnover 1 143 million dollar last year.  That is from all their plattforms not only Apples.  Looking at what Mojang have said earlier about 10% of their income from IOS devices would it would be close to 143 millions not over 500.  That is form the most sold game on Apple store.

[pas008]

17 minutes ago, Kroon said:

 

Your numbers are way way off.    Fun thing is that Mojang AB is still a Swedish company and here all the finances of AB (similar to INC in US) are considered official document.  In total Mojang turnover 1 143 million dollar last year.  That is from all their plattforms not only Apples.  Looking at what Mojang have said earlier about 10% of their income from IOS devices would it would be close to 143 millions not over 500.  That is form the most sold game on Apple store.

what was apples cut?

[Lord Vile]

22 hours ago, Video Beagle said:

I wonder how they'll police this to keep some shady developers from just putting up a money grab app, then switching names over and over.

Well you need to pay to access the App Store eventually they’ll be found out and banned. 

[Lord Vile]

54 minutes ago, pas008 said:

so apple gets 221m for their platform eco system and then gets corp tax cuts off your scenario

just for hosting and doing some security checks

talk about highway robbery

Microsoft does the same. They’ve also built the user base and hardware. Funny thing is before suing Apple and google Epic games actually tried to make their own android store but just couldn’t build a user base. Turns out that’s fairly hard to do. 

[pas008]

3 minutes ago, Lord Vile said:

Microsoft does the same. They’ve also built the user base and hardware. Funny thing is before suing Apple and google Epic games actually tried to make their own android store but just couldn’t build a user base. Turns out that’s fairly hard to do. 

link microsofts 30% cut off the top for developing on windows

and googles store can be bypassed by sideloading loading there is an option with a press show me this to with a link

 

[Lord Vile]

1 minute ago, pas008 said:

link microsofts 30% cut off the top for developing on windows

and googles store can be bypassed by sideloading loading there is an option with a press show me this to with a link

 

You’ve literally quoted the post where I said Epic tried to make a side loaded version of fortnite which was/is the biggest game when they tried it and it got 0 traction. People don’t like side loading and google actively discourages it.

 

Have a study:

 

https://www.analysisgroup.com/globalassets/insights/publishing/apples_app_store_and_other_digital_marketplaces_a_comparison_of_commission_rates.pdf

[Sauron]

I think the problem is more with them forcing you to go through their store rather than any specific fee.

[A51UK]

2 minutes ago, Sauron said:

I think the problem is more with them forcing you to go through their store rather than any specific fee.

I total agree with you, It not every been about the fee but been force to use their store and not been able to have other store. I do not see this solve any of the issues.  There could make it free but the problem would be still there. 

[pas008]

3 hours ago, Lord Vile said:

You’ve literally quoted the post where I said Epic tried to make a side loaded version of fortnite which was/is the biggest game when they tried it and it got 0 traction. People don’t like side loading and google actively discourages it.

 

Have a study:

 

https://www.analysisgroup.com/globalassets/insights/publishing/apples_app_store_and_other_digital_marketplaces_a_comparison_of_commission_rates.pdf

is apple getting sued first or google? why is google in the picture now? google still lets you have options like amazon etc

etc etc etc

[Lord Vile]

7 minutes ago, pas008 said:

is apple getting sued first or google? why is google in the picture now? google still lets you have options like amazon etc

etc etc etc

Epic filed lawsuits against apple and google pretty much at the same time for the same thing. They put the same feature into both platform apps and both were taken down by apple ad google respectively. If it goes through the play store Google gets there cut.

 

Overall it's still hypocritical as Sony and Microsoft have the same cut and epic hasn't said a word to them. On top of that those platforms are even more walled off than iOS.

[pas008]

29 minutes ago, Lord Vile said:

Epic filed lawsuits against apple and google pretty much at the same time for the same thing. They put the same feature into both platform apps and both were taken down by apple ad google respectively. If it goes through the play store Google gets there cut.

 

Overall it's still hypocritical as Sony and Microsoft have the same cut and epic hasn't said a word to them. On top of that those platforms are even more walled off than iOS.

and that whats needs to change

if you think thats ok then we will never have anything truely

open fuck even ms knows this

 

more i get older the more it seems like everyone likes a closed ecosystem

 

ideology HAS become cult like and next planetary exploration will be resource driven

 

rome all over again

 

[Lord Vile]

3 minutes ago, pas008 said:

and that whats needs to change

if you think thats ok then we will never have anything truely

open fuck even ms knows this

 

more i get older the more it seems like everyone likes a closed ecosystem

 

ideology HAS become cult like and next planetary exploration will be resource driven

 

rome all over again

 

Closed ecosystems are fine it's just how they're handled. Apple has done fairly well with iOS. The App Store is fairly easy to get on and 30% is a good number. 15% under $1 Million is also bigger cut that I'd expect to get.

[pas008]

9 minutes ago, Lord Vile said:

Closed ecosystems are fine it's just how they're handled. Apple has done fairly well with iOS. The App Store is fairly easy to get on and 30% is a good number. 15% under $1 Million is also bigger cut that I'd expect to get.

see this is where your thinking is off

whats the tax rate on 1m? they just trying to justify their platform

ms and sony really dont get that much considering replayable media

[Lord Vile]

2 minutes ago, pas008 said:

see this is where your thinking is off

whats the tax rate on 1m? they just trying to justify their platform

ms and sony really dont get that much considering replayable media

Believe if you're an accountant for a firm that brings in over 6 figures the tax rate would be 0%.

 

Digital sales account for more sals than physical now and micro transactions are a significant portion of both companies incomes.

[Blademaster91]

10 minutes ago, pas008 said:

see this is where your thinking is off

whats the tax rate on 1m? they just trying to justify their platform

ms and sony really dont get that much considering replayable media

According to the Techlinked video that covered this topic, the developers that make less than 1 million are about 98% of developers on iOS, so there should definitely be something done.

And consoles really aren't a good comparison IMO, I can go buy a physical game copy and not have to pay the MS or Sony store fee.

[Taf the Ghost]

This feels like the opening salvo in a court case settlement.

[Spindel]

2 minutes ago, Blademaster91 said:

According to the Techlinked video that covered this topic, the developers that make less than 1 million are about 98% of developers on iOS, so there should definitely be something done.

And consoles really aren't a good comparison IMO, I can go buy a physical game copy and not have to pay the MS or Sony store fee.

MS, Sony and Nintendo all take a cut from physical games too. If you want to publish on their platform you pay them, doesn't matter if you release digital or physical. 

[PocketNerd]

15 hours ago, Trik'Stari said:

I find it somewhat humorous that the App devs have the real power here, but don't seem to realize it.

 

If they all just simultaneously dropped Apple, it would devastate the iPhone ecosystem. Sure it would hurt the devs short term, but in the long run Apple would lose out eventually as sales would go down quarter after quarter. Sure Apple would just make their own native apps to compensate, but sooner or later they would just end up sitting alone in their walled garden.

 

A lack of apps is what killed the Windows Phone, I really wish the app devs would do the same to Apple. Because they deserve it, for so many reasons.

Oh god, I can already image the number of AASP appointments I'd be getting cause X app is no longer available and I'm expected to fix it.

[NotTheFirstDaniel]

Since this entire lawsuit was about the "small developer" and not lining their pockets, I assume Epic will drop their suit now that the small developers are being benefited from this change. Right?

 

Epic lost my support (although they never really had it in the first place) when the CEO compared not getting 30% of their profits to civil rights. Losing 30% of revenue is apparently equal to people fearing their lives or being discriminated against based purely off the color of their skin. What. The. Fuck. That's not even being tone deaf anymore, how can you even begin to equate those two things...

On 11/18/2020 at 8:23 PM, Trik'Stari said:

I find it somewhat humorous that the App devs have the real power here, but don't seem to realize it.

 

If they all just simultaneously dropped Apple, it would devastate the iPhone ecosystem. Sure it would hurt the devs short term, but in the long run Apple would lose out eventually as sales would go down quarter after quarter. Sure Apple would just make their own native apps to compensate, but sooner or later they would just end up sitting alone in their walled garden.

 

A lack of apps is what killed the Windows Phone, I really wish the app devs would do the same to Apple. Because they deserve it, for so many reasons.

You're underestimating how much money app developers make from iOS.

 

For some reason, iOS users tend to spend a lot more in and on apps than other users on competing operating systems. So many app developers would lose most of their livelihoods just to send a message. Only the top 5% (the app developers that make over a million) would survive such a transition, and even they would be hurt by it and probably wouldn't recover for months if not years.

 

Why do you think all the best games and apps prioritize iOS before they come to Android? Money. Such a move like this would hurt everyone involved in some way, it's just not worth it to anyone. And (if you want to make a similar point), wouldn't devs also have to move away from Android? They're enforcing the 30% policy next year, so why not just rebel both platforms?

 

What would actually kill Apple is them forgetting themselves. Once they forget the "core values" that made them a profitable and well liked company, like the did in the 90s, they will fall quickly, like they did in the 90s. I truly believe that no company is "too big to fail", I mean look at Nokia and RIM. Tim Cook did a good job at not changing the company's ideals much from Steve Jobs' tenure. I guess it's up to the next CEO to fuck it up, or make it more profitable. 

 

And Windows Phone didn't die because of a lack of apps or some "developer rebellion". Windows Phone died because even Microsoft didn't care about it. Microsoft should've invested more time and money into Windows Phone project earlier than it did, and should've taken the hint quickly that when you charge for an OS and you don't have the monopoly, no one's going to use you. Windows Phone had no apps because it had no users to use the apps. It got stuck in that endless cycle. Apple didn't because it pretty much "invented" the field, and Google didn't because it was free and everyone and their mothers could make a phone that ran Android.

[Dracarris]

Look who is delighted by Apples move.