Is apple just going to kill x86 now?

[whm1974]

48 minutes ago, DavidKalinowski said:

In August of 1997, Gates stepped in and saved Apple, which, at the time, was on the brink of bankruptcy. ... The world's a better place," Jobs told Gates after the Microsoft exec agreed to make a $150 million investment in Apple.Aug 29, 2017 (source: cnbc)

Well Steve Jobs is the one who brought Apple back to Profitability. 

[GoldSrc]

Won't happen, and even if it did, so much software designed with x86 in mind would have to be emulated with software, performance issues, bugs and glitches would pop up all the time.

x86 will die one day, but it's still way too soon for that.

That, or CPU's would need to have x86 hardware on them, which would make them too expensive.

Don't worry, x86 is here to stay for a while.

 

I've been hearing about how ARM would "kill x86" for years lol.

[hookedonentflix]

On 11/18/2020 at 12:23 AM, LazyLand said:

Please tell me no, I'm tired of apple taking over in everything. 
I dislike apple, mainly because how the people that use their products behave. Many girls I know did this stupid challenge video where they put down a finger if they wanna date the guy described.. kind of. There's just a voice saying "He is cute but he has bad teeth" "He is cute but he is short" AND "He is cute but he has an android" I watched like 50 videos before one got their finger down about the android guy. That's the kind of person I talk about, and I kind of developed hate for apple. I know I shouldn't but idk I can't really control it I just kind of hate them.

 

But any way,
Please tell me amd and intel has what to show apple,  I don't want macbooks to take over everywhere. In my country they are still rare, but with how many people use iphones in my country it's just because It didn't really become a trend yet.. No way they can just beat 2 companies with all the experience and years behind, right?
right..?

1) Bro this has major incel energy. No girl is not gonna fuck you because you have a galaxy s20

 

2) this is the amazing part. Apple wont let anyone use their stuff so if you dont want to use it just buy another company's product. Im sure this transition will effect other companies but hopefully in a good way but x86 isnt going anywhere. Long term x86 should die and risv takes over a lot. 

[whm1974]

5 hours ago, GoldSrc said:

I've been hearing about how ARM would "kill x86" for years lol.

 

3 hours ago, hookedonentflix said:

1) Bro this has major incel energy. No girl is not gonna fuck you because you have a galaxy s20

I've read the same thing about RISC CPUs in general. Even Intel thought this. First it was MIPS, then PowerPC, and now ARM. The Digital Alpha lasted quite a while.

 

Fun Fact: Microsoft developed Windows NT on Systems with i860, MIPS, And Alpha first. They were trying to avoid writing x86 code.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_NT

[ne0tic]

Apple might become the leader in mobile in terms of efficiency and performance, possibly forever if Intel and AMD doesn't switch to ARM. It's impossible to know. Either way, it should be years before Apple can compete with AMD in the high-end desktop space and unless Apple starts selling their ARM-chips, I don't see ARM taking over anytime soon. Apple is so far ahead architecturally, even compared to ARM themselves, so ARM becoming more succesful in Windows than x86, I doubt it. Apple could be in for a huge boost of Mac sales if they continue to deliver with their next generation of chips. 

[whm1974]

5 minutes ago, ne0tic said:

Apple might become the leader in mobile in terms of efficiency and performance, possibly forever if Intel and AMD doesn't switch to ARM. It's impossible to know. Either way, it should be years before Apple can compete with AMD in the high-end desktop space and unless Apple starts selling their ARM-chips, I don't see ARM taking over anytime soon. Apple is so far ahead architecturally, even compared to ARM themselves, so ARM becoming more succesful in Windows than x86, I doubt it. Apple could be in for a huge boost of Mac sales if they continue to deliver with their next generation of chips. 

Why would AMD and Intel bother with switching to ARM?

[Bombastinator]

5 minutes ago, whm1974 said:

Why would AMD and Intel bother with switching to ARM?

There are whole entire other threads on the various reasons.  To attempt to consolidate, Basically x86 has age and cruft issues that cause various problems. 

[Bombastinator]

22 hours ago, whm1974 said:

Well Steve Jobs is the one who brought Apple back to Profitability. 

But first he had to do it by begging Gates to give them money to keep the company solvent and avoid monopoly issues for microsoft.

[whm1974]

1 minute ago, Bombastinator said:

There are whole entire other threads on the various reasons.  To attempt to consolidate, Basically x86 has age and cruft issues that cause various problems. 

Consolidate what? Neither AMD or Intel are currently producing ARM chips. And besides ARM was first designed back in the Mid-80's.

[ne0tic]

19 minutes ago, whm1974 said:

Why would AMD and Intel bother with switching to ARM?

Because potentially they could get more out of ARM than x86. Potentially. 

[Bombastinator]

10 minutes ago, whm1974 said:

Consolidate what? Neither AMD or Intel are currently producing ARM chips. And besides ARM was first designed back in the Mid-80's.

Consolidate the various reasons.  I’m trying to stuff multiple whole threads into a single sentence and the only way to do that is to be extremely vague. 

 

Arguably neither is Apple.  X86 was first designed for 16 bit of that helps. X86 is an onion with patches on to of patches on top of patches.  The newer the system the fewer the layers and the less squishy the surface.  Way back in the 80’s this was already a problem for x86, and it has only gotten worse.  Sub optimal choices had to be made because it was the only way to attach a new layer.  They build up.

[whm1974]

1 minute ago, ne0tic said:

Because potentially they could get more out of ARM than x86. Potentially. 

Computers Experts said the same thing about RISC in general all the way up to the early 2000's. AMD shut the vast majority of them up by releasing the first AMD64/x86-64 CPUs.

[Bombastinator]

Just now, whm1974 said:

Computers Experts said the same thing about RISC in general all the way up to the early 2000's. AMD shut the vast majority of them up by releasing the first AMD64/x86-64 CPUs.

Yep. Another layer. 

[spartaman64]

5 hours ago, hookedonentflix said:

1) Bro this has major incel energy. No girl is not gonna fuck you because you have a galaxy s20

 

2) this is the amazing part. Apple wont let anyone use their stuff so if you dont want to use it just buy another company's product. Im sure this transition will effect other companies but hopefully in a good way but x86 isnt going anywhere. Long term x86 should die and risv takes over a lot. 

well there are some girls like that but I think its a fortunate thing because shes probably a shitty person that you wouldnt have a good time dating anyways

[whm1974]

Just now, Bombastinator said:

Yep. Another layer. 

YAWN!!! I've hearing the same things Way Back in 1993... When is the last time you seen a Modern Workstation using a RISC CPU?

[Bombastinator]

1 minute ago, whm1974 said:

YAWN!!! I've hearing the same things Way Back in 1993... When is the last time you seen a Modern Workstation using a RISC CPU?

Doesn’t mean they’re not true. There’s advice in poor Richard’s almanac that is so old it doesn’t even make sense any more because the references it makes no longer apply to modern society.  “A stitch in time saves nine” doesn’t make sense because people no longer repair clothes generally but the point being made is still valid.  And that thing is 200 years old. The Torah is like 4000 or so, but people haven’t changed much. 
 

 Had hands on one? Quite a while, but that’s not because they don’t exist. 

[whm1974]

8 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

Doesn’t mean they’re not true. There’s advice in poor Richard’s almanac that is so old it doesn’t even make sense any more because the references it makes no longer apply to modern society.  “A stitch in time saves nine” doesn’t make sense because people no longer repair clothes generally but the point being made is still valid.  And that thing is 200 years old. The Torah is like 4000 or so, but people haven’t changed much. 
 

 Had hands on one? Quite a while, but that’s not because they don’t exist. 

Actually some people do repair their clothing... Name me one modern RISC based Workstation still being produced.

[Bombastinator]

1 minute ago, whm1974 said:

Actually some people do repair their clothing... Name me one modern RISC based Workstation still being produced.

My memory is both power[whatever number they’re up to] and riscV both do one,  though they’re not commonly used.  googling “risc workstation” I ran into this

https://virtuallyfun.com/wordpress/2020/09/24/a-modern-risc-workstation-for-a-modern-government-era/

not sure how applicable it is.  Long article.

 

Your argument seems to be “no one has mass produced one because they couldn’t sell them so the concept must be valueless”   Not being able to sell one doesn’t mean the concept has no value.  Being made and being popularly sold are different things. 

 

 

[whm1974]

6 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

My memory is both power[whatever number they’re up to] and riscV both do one,  though they’re not commonly used.  googling “risc workstation” I ran into this

https://virtuallyfun.com/wordpress/2020/09/24/a-modern-risc-workstation-for-a-modern-government-era/

not sure how applicable it is.  Long article.

 

Your argument seems to be “no one has mass produced one because they couldn’t sell them so the concept must be valueless”   Not being able to sell one doesn’t mean the concept has no value.  Being made and being popularly sold are different things. 

 

 

Ha Ha I wouldn't call that a Workstation at all. And good luck trying to get one of those boards outside of China. Or for that matter a Linux Distro that supports a Loongson CPU.

[BuckGup]

This thread is terrible lol. But long story short yes. Like it or not Apple has incredible influence on the industry as a whole

[Bombastinator]

1 minute ago, whm1974 said:

Ha Ha I wouldn't call that a Workstation at all. And good luck trying to get one of those boards outside of China. Or for that matter a Linux Distro that supports a Loongson CPU.

Like I said I didnt know if it applied.  I only mentioned it because it was there.  As I said. My actual argument is below that.

[whm1974]

Just now, BuckGup said:

These thread is terrible lol. But long story short yes. Like it or not Apple has incredible influence on the industry as a whole

I should know by now not to argue with someone on the Internet.

[Bombastinator]

1 minute ago, BuckGup said:

These thread is terrible lol. But long story short yes. Like it or not Apple has incredible influence on the industry as a whole

I agree.  I am worried that the m1 may kill full sized GPUs by simply locking them out of the ecosystem. The “they don’t exist because we won’t allow you to have one” argument.  Even though they do still exist and people who need them will find was to get ahold of them. Apple could push their ecosystem into “toy computer” status much like chromebooks which is a road to eventual destruction.  It’s a slow enough one they might do it anyway though because the executives in charge will be retired before the effects of their decisions are felt. A stitch in time may save nine but if you’re not wearing the pants anymore it only matters to those that have to.

[whm1974]

5 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

Like I said I didnt know if it applied.  I only mentioned it because it was there.  As I said. My actual argument is below that.

I looked into the Loongson CPUs a while back and IMHO China would have been better off developing their own ISA instead.

[Bombastinator]

1 minute ago, whm1974 said:

I looked into the Loongson CPUs a while back and IMHO China would have been better off developing their own ISA instead.

I notice you said you should know by now not to argue with people on the internet.  I am beginning to see why you might say that.  You seem to want to hang on what amounts to an aside to my statement.