Will M1 chip macs bring an end to bootcamp?

[skylinetofast]

The new 2020 Macbook air, pro and mac mini will be using the m1 chip inside them. As a daily power mac user I use bootcamp on a daily base. Now the intel macs are able to perform bootcamp very well because the intel cpus are mac osx and windows supported. 

 

The real question is do you think the M1 chip macs will be able to support bootcamp or not. If it supports bootcamp will there be better performance or worse performance then the intel cpus. If the m1 chip dose not support bootcamp what dose the future hold for bootcamp users. I want to hear your opinions.

 

 

[Slottr]

There is no bootcamp support 

[PCGuy_5960]

I doubt that M1 macs will support bootcamp at all. Apple aren't exactly known for their open ecosystem.

[Airdragonz]

I recall reading an article awhile back saying no bootcamp support for apple silicon. I honestly believe bootcamp is on its way out due to lack of support from Apple in recent years. I'd recommend either moving to a dedicated windows/linux machine or running a VM like parallels on mac.

[RejZoR]

What about virtualization (with VMWare or something like that) on ARM chips? Anything known about that?

[skylinetofast]

3 minutes ago, Airdragonz said:

I recall reading an article awhile back saying no bootcamp support for apple silicon. I honestly believe bootcamp is on its way out due to lack of support from Apple in recent years. I'd recommend either moving to a dedicated windows/linux machine or running a VM like parallels on mac.

Running parallel is horrible for example running the latest  direct x  is imposable 

[samcool55]

2 minutes ago, RejZoR said:

What about virtualization (with VMWare or something like that) on ARM chips? Anything known about that?

My guess (no source) is that it's going to be more a case of emulation than virtualization.

Running VM's requires certain HW features that are afaik non-existent in the ARM world.

So it's probably going to be a case of emulation like playing PS2 games on a PC type of thing.

[skylinetofast]

well good to know that bootcamp will not be around because once my intel mac becomes unsupported I will move to a windows laptop and never buy a apple silicon mac 

[Jurrunio]

20 minutes ago, RejZoR said:

What about virtualization (with VMWare or something like that) on ARM chips? Anything known about that?

emulation to x86 will be needed and as per usual, emulation eats up a lot of performance. You can probably still run x86 apps if you insist, but dont expect performance.

[skylinetofast]

1 minute ago, Jurrunio said:

emulation to x86 will be needed and as per usual, emulation eats up a lot of performance. You can probably still run x86 apps if you insist, but dont expect performance.

what a true statment

 

[DavidKalinowski]

I've never understood the whole getting a mac, but then needing boot camp to run windows, because you need to use windows programs.. just get a PC from the get go. There is literally nothing a mac can do that a PC cant do, and if you really don't want to use windows as a day to day OS, dual boot with Linux Mint, or Elementary if you want a mac-ish interface.

[skylinetofast]

3 minutes ago, DavidKalinowski said:

I've never understood the whole getting a mac, but then needing boot camp to run windows, because you need to use windows programs.. just get a PC from the get go. There is literally nothing a mac can do that a PC cant do, and if you really don't want to use windows as a day to day OS, dual boot with Linux Mint, or Elementary if you want a mac-ish interface.

I use mac os for programming and robotics. I use windows for auto cad inventor and revit. it works out very well for now.

 

[DavidKalinowski]

5 minutes ago, skylinetofast said:

I use mac os for programming and robotics. I use windows for auto cad inventor and revit. it works out very well for now.

 

Is there a specific reason you use the mac? I'm not a mac user (ive had to learn some for my current job because we support about 25 macs now..) and I'm not into robotics. So is the just no an equivalent for those tasks on PC?

 

Totaly did not look at the your username. I see that you are using boot camp lol.  It makes a bit more sense now, but could you still not have just got a higher end PC for the price of the mac, and used windows and/or linux to do the same thing?

[skylinetofast]

1 minute ago, DavidKalinowski said:

Is there a specific reason you use the mac? I'm not a mac user (ive had to learn some for my current job because we support about 25 macs now..) and I'm not into robotics. So is the just no an equivalent for those tasks on PC?

Well I find macs can be a very high perfromace mac machine and a very high performance windows laptop. I bought it because I can run mac when fell like it and run windows most of the time. I have a i9 cpu with 32gb of ram and a 4gb gpu these specs are high performance no matter what os you use. 

 

[Kisai]

58 minutes ago, skylinetofast said:

The new 2020 Macbook air, pro and mac mini will be using the m1 chip inside them. As a daily power mac user I use bootcamp on a daily base. Now the intel macs are able to perform bootcamp very well because the intel cpus are mac osx and windows supported. 

Intel mac's only support bootcamp because they are Intel parts. Bootcamp isn't exactly the same as dual-booting a typical PC. There are features of Apple's UEFI firmware that don't exist in typical PC's. For example the encrypted drive support would be difficult to overcome.

 

The PPC parts before didn't have any kind of support for other OS's despite things like the Gamecube/Wii/WiiU/PS3/Xbox360 all being PPC-related parts. You could run PPC Linux on an old PPC mac, but it's very involved and not as easy as the PS3, and the PS3 (old model) had support for it.

 

So I imagine the situation to be much the same with the ARM CPU parts, no ARM device can boot another ARM device's OS. Linux OS's like Arch and Ubuntu have to release binaries for every version of the OS of even different cpu type. So unless there is an explicit version of ARM linux or ARM Windows designed to work on the ARM Mac, there will be zero chance of any kind of bootcamp-like support.

 

58 minutes ago, skylinetofast said:

The real question is do you think the M1 chip macs will be able to support bootcamp or not. If it supports bootcamp will there be better performance or worse performance then the intel cpus. If the m1 chip dose not support bootcamp what dose the future hold for bootcamp users. I want to hear your opinions.

 

 

Doubtful. If it's one thing Apple is known for, is dropping compatibility for things without any replacement.

[DavidKalinowski]

1 minute ago, skylinetofast said:

Well I find macs can be a very high perfromace mac machine and a very high performance windows laptop. I bought it because I can run mac when fell like it and run windows most of the time. I have a i9 cpu with 32gb of ram and a 4gb gpu these specs are high performance no matter what os you use. 

 

I understand that, but how much did that cost? was there an equivalent PC version? I'm not trying to pick at you personally, I'm just trying to understand the reasoning for getting a mac. the mac books we got cast a few hundred dollars more than equivalent speced HP laptops. and to top it off the web based scanning solution we use dose not 100% work with the mac OS and the scanners. You can scan the document to the mac and then upload that file, but on windows you can scan strait to the web interface. No one bothered to check with the software vendor about mac support because they bought all these macs.. (i really hate not being involved with purchase decisions at my current job..) Sorry got off on a rant there.

[skylinetofast]

I spent around 5 grand on my laptop. the same spec windows laptop was the same price. The only windows laptop I would use is thinkpad because of how well there laptops last.

[kpluck]

23 minutes ago, DavidKalinowski said:

There is literally nothing a mac can do that a PC cant do…

 

Except for running OS X without any issues. And, of course, that is the most likely reason someone with a Mac might want bootcamp. They spend most of their time in OS X because they prefer to use that over Windows. However, if an app isn't available in OS X or it performs better under Windows, they still have that as an option.

 

For instance, I have an iMac. It is great running OS X apps except the GPU is on the weak side and I like to occasionally play games. Even given the same hardware, games generally perform much better under Windows than they do under OS X. And, of course, there are games available for Windows 10 that aren't available for OS X. So, when I feel like playing a game, I boot into Windows 10. However, for day to day work, I prefer OS X.

 

-kp

[Drama Lama]

currently there is no boot camp support and I don't think Apple will bring their ARM mashines bacause

1. Windows on arm is bad

2. Apple wants people to use the mac and people to download all their stuff from the Appstore and not use Windows for thing. they know that they may piss off a few people but most Mac users won't even notice or care

[DavidKalinowski]

52 minutes ago, kpluck said:

Except for running OS X without any issues

Kinda of, hackintosh is a thing i've got Catalina running in a VM and it runs better in the VM than it did hacked to run on a power mac with dual xeons. But I get what your saying, not every one is going to go to the trouble of hackintoshing it up.  I think my biggest issue with apple is honestly the prices they had been charging for their hardware (which up until now had been more or less a PC) I would love to see apple release an OSX-PC version, and sell just their OS. (I know they wont because of hardware drivers or whatever. But their OS is a customized unix kernel surely a linux version driver could be modded to work with it with out too much effort (I'm not a programmer so I dont kow.)

[skylinetofast]

1 hour ago, DavidKalinowski said:

Kinda of, hackintosh is a thing i've got Catalina running in a VM and it runs better in the VM than it did hacked to run on a power mac with dual xeons. But I get what your saying, not every one is going to go to the trouble of hackintoshing it up.  I think my biggest issue with apple is honestly the prices they had been charging for their hardware (which up until now had been more or less a PC) I would love to see apple release an OSX-PC version, and sell just their OS. (I know they wont because of hardware drivers or whatever. But their OS is a customized unix kernel surely a linux version driver could be modded to work with it with out too much effort (I'm not a programmer so I dont kow.)

Nice job getting Catalina to work on a vm. I get the vm to work but can't get the screen resolution to change it's stuck on a small size and it sucks. you made very good points. what is your xeons specs

 

[kpluck]

2 hours ago, DavidKalinowski said:

I would love to see apple release an OSX-PC version, and sell just their OS. 

Agreed. I wished for that myself. I had hoped they would release some sort of "hobbyist edition". They could even sell it with no support and I think it would still be popular with the Hackintosh crowd while posing no real threat to their hardware sales. Hackintoshes will probably be viable while Intel-based Macs are still being supported but the writing is clearly on the wall (I just recently bought a Win 10 box myself).

 

-kp

[skylinetofast]

3 minutes ago, kpluck said:

Agreed. I wished for that myself. I had hoped they would release some sort of "hobbyist edition". They could even sell it with no support and I think it would still be popular with the Hackintosh crowd while posing no real threat to their hardware sales. Hackintoshes will probably be viable while Intel-based Macs are still being supported but the writing is clearly on the wall (I just recently bought a Win 10 box myself).

 

-kp

The hackintosh community didn't let the no amd cpu suport stand in there way so there not going to let apple silicon stop them from hackintoshing

   

[DavidKalinowski]

6 minutes ago, skylinetofast said:

The hackintosh community didn't let the no amd cpu suport stand in there way so there not going to let apple silicon stop them from hackintoshing

   

 

1 hour ago, skylinetofast said:

Nice job getting Catalina to work on a vm. I get the vm to work but can't get the screen resolution to change it's stuck on a small size and it sucks. you made very good points. what is your xeons specs

 

there was a line of text that set the display resolution that had to be put into virtualbox from a command line call, the text is self was

VBoxManage setextradata "VM Name" VBoxInternal2/EfiGraphicsResolution HxV

where the h and v are the horizontal and vertial resolution. It makes it useable, but not in a full screen mode.  The old power mac I tried to run catalina on was a power mac 3,1 early 2008 with two quad core xeon 2.8Ghz CPU 2 GB of RAM (it has to have ECC RAM so I never upgraded it cause it was an old tower we found a closet) had a radeon 2600 XT and i pust 120GB SSD in it. I think the biggest issue was the low amount of ram and probably the old graphics card. My VM has 4 GB of ram allocated and I'm running on a i5-6500 CPU. I give the VM two of the 4 cores, and it runs on a kingfast SSD (yea odd brand, the last CIO got them cheap and gave them to us for desk computers.. other offices got sandisk and samsung.. we arent as important evidently lol) if you want the website i got the directions from the VM I can pm you the link, not sure on the rules for posting it here because I think it has a link the catalina ISO..

[Roswell]

4 hours ago, DavidKalinowski said:

I've never understood the whole getting a mac, but then needing boot camp to run windows, because you need to use windows programs.. just get a PC from the get go. There is literally nothing a mac can do that a PC cant do, and if you really don't want to use windows as a day to day OS, dual boot with Linux Mint, or Elementary if you want a mac-ish interface.

There’s plenty Macs can do that Windows PCs can’t, most notably in the programming space since MacOS is open source UNIX. Unless you want some sort of sweet hell setting up a FreeBSD distro to write your phone apps, there’s no equivalent. Linux is an option but not a very efficient one.

 

There’s also the matter of exclusive software in the professional space that’s only available on Mac. Final Cut Pro, Xcode, Logic Pro X, etc.