Google is gonna lock phones if you don't pay your bill in Kenya

[Bradly Goat]

 

Summary

 Here is a post from Android Police that Google has an app to lock your phone if you refuse to pay your bill if your financing the device. So far, this is apparently only being used specifically with one company but I wonder how long until this becomes normal.

 

Quotes

Quote

 Google recently pushed a new app listing to the Play Store, called Device Lock Controller, which "enables device management for credit providers." In other words, it can be used to lock you out of your phone if you don't keep up with a creditor's payments. However, Google says the Play Store app listing is a mistake that will soon be taken down. The app was launched earlier this year in collaboration with Kenyan carrier Safaricom for Android Go device financing

 

My thoughts

 I think that this has gone too far. And I think that this is just gonna get more people rooting their cell phones or its gonna back fire on Google and people are going to get an iPhone. I could also see some carriers locking your device by mistake even if you payed your bill.

 

Sources

https://www.androidpolice.com/2020/11/09/google-has-an-app-to-lock-you-out-of-your-financed-phone-if-you-stop-paying-for-it/

[Letgomyleghoe]

#1 its not google itself 

 

#2 i think this should be a thing, but not after a 1 time offense, like if you have an outstanding bill your phone gets locked

[Chionele]

Well, why shouldn't they? If you're not holding up your end of the deal why shouldn't they be able to lock the device like this? Pretty much everything else invoiced works the same way: you stop paying, the service ends.

[trag1c]

20 minutes ago, Letgomyleghoe said:

#2 i think this should be a thing, but not after a 1 time offense, like if you have an outstanding bill your phone gets locked

I can agree to that as long as like you said they don't penalize you for a 1st time offence. 

[LAwLz]

There are some VERY important parts that are just being glossed over here.

 

1) It is only in Kenya.

2) This only works if you have bought a phone from the Kenyan carrier Safaricom using their financing plan.

 

 

Honestly, if you buy a phone on a payment plan and then don't pay for it, I think losing access to the phone seems like a reasonable response. If I stop paying for let's say Netflix then I don't get to keep using them. I lose access until I start paying again.

I don't see why phones would be any different. I think the problem only comes when this start being used for other purposes, but so far we have no evidence or indication that it will.

[Orange1]

13 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

There are some VERY important parts that are just being glossed over here.

 

1) It is only in Kenya.

2) This only works if you have bought a phone from the Kenyan carrier Safaricom using their financing plan.

Why did the OP gloss over that part?

I'd say that is pretty important!

[Master Disaster]

7 minutes ago, Orange1 said:

Why did the OP gloss over that part?

I'd say that is pretty important!

Because "One single Kenyan Network Provider will lock your phone if you don't pay your bill" doesn't get as many clicks as "Google is gonna lock your phone if you don't pay your bill".

 

The interesting thing is Google is neither a network provider nor a credit provider so wouldn't have the power to do this even if they wanted to.

[Orange1]

1 minute ago, Master Disaster said:

doesn't get as many clicks

Of course, so Linus is rubbing off on its forum users. Greeeeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat!

[Master Disaster]

1 minute ago, Orange1 said:

Of course, so Linus is rubbing off on its forum users. Greeeeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat!

You're fairly new here and it shows...

 

Clickbait headlines have been a thing on here LOOOOOONG before YouTube changed their algorithm and everyone had to use clickbaity titles to get views.

 

I guess you could say, we rubbed off on Linus

[Orange1]

1 minute ago, Master Disaster said:

You're fairly new here and it shows...

 

Clickbait headlines have been a thing on here LOOOOOONG before YouTube changed their algorithm and everyone had to use clickbaity titles to get views.

 

I guess you could say, we rubbed off on Linus

You are missing one important fact.

Clickbait thumbnail pictures with a silly facial expression.

 

But we're getting off track. So, you dont pay your bill in Kenya and the provider can lock your phone. Makes me wonder a lot about what exactly can you buy in Kenya that will work, and what is Kenya's cell phone service and map like. How much would the newest apple cost compared to the average daily income. I think the higher priority in Kenya would be the capability of tracking your phone, I'd believe that is probably a constant crime in Kenya.

 

 

 

 

[PhantomJaguarr]

Repossession with extra steps.

[WereCatf]

2 hours ago, Chionele said:

Well, why shouldn't they? If you're not holding up your end of the deal why shouldn't they be able to lock the device like this? Pretty much everything else invoiced works the same way: you stop paying, the service ends.

Locking up the phone and canceling one's service are two different things, though: OP talks about locking the phone itself up, not about canceling the mobile service. Yes, canceling service and forwarding one's billing details to professional creditors is standard practice and that's perfectly reasonable, but locking up the phone itself goes too far.

[shaz2sxy]

If you don't keep up payments on your car they can reposses it, same with your house so why not a "phone"

[pythonmegapixel]

If you don't like this then just save some money to buy a phone you can afford rather than getting it on a monthly contract.

 

If you buy anything else on credit then you lose it if you don't pay, so why not a phone?

[Chionele]

41 minutes ago, WereCatf said:

Locking up the phone and canceling one's service are two different things, though: OP talks about locking the phone itself up, not about canceling the mobile service. Yes, canceling service and forwarding one's billing details to professional creditors is standard practice and that's perfectly reasonable, but locking up the phone itself goes too far.

How come? You don't pay for the access, you don't have the access. Works the exact same for everything else as well. I would understand this if we weren't talking about a financed product but something you have paid for in full, but that is not the case.

 

Think you can't afford your installments? Buy a cheaper thing, you won't really need the expensive one anyways.

[Dujith]

41 minutes ago, WereCatf said:

Locking up the phone and canceling one's service are two different things

 

26 minutes ago, pythonmegapixel said:

If you buy anything else on credit then you lose it if you don't pay, so why not a phone?

Whatever you get on a payment plan: You in essence "buy" it and becomes your property. 

The payment plan is just the money you owe them, not the device. If you dont pay up they will come after you for the money, never the item in question.

 

In that sense locking the phone would be illegal since its not theirs to screw with.

 

 

[pythonmegapixel]

8 minutes ago, Dujith said:

Whatever you get on a payment plan: You in essence "buy" it and becomes your property. 

The payment plan is just the money you owe them, not the device. If you dont pay up they will come after you for the money, never the item in question.

 

In that sense locking the phone would be illegal since its not theirs to screw with.

I'm sure if this functionality became widespread, it would only require a quick edit to some T&Cs to allow them to treat it as secured against the device (so that the device becomes their property if you fail to keep up payments)

 

Mortgages and car finance have worked like this for a very long time.

[WereCatf]

20 minutes ago, Chionele said:

How come? You don't pay for the access, you don't have the access. Works the exact same for everything else as well.

Actually, it doesn't. There are literally tens of thousands of things you can buy in a similar manner, but if you stop paying the monthly installments, no one comes to take the stuff away from you or disable them. All that happens is that creditors will be sent after you, your credit-rating gets shot and you begin to accrue extra debt.

[Dujith]

Just now, pythonmegapixel said:

Mortgages and car finance have worked like this for a very long time.

 

Yes, but that would require a ruling on it first tho. They cant just edit their T&C to allow this. 

Both those things are special cases that laws were created for. In case of anything else you get on a plan is yours.

[Sauron]

3 hours ago, LAwLz said:

Honestly, if you buy a phone on a payment plan and then don't pay for it, I think losing access to the phone seems like a reasonable response.

Isn't there... legal recourse for this? You know, something that doesn't involve installing a remote control app on your customers' phones?

[Master Disaster]

14 minutes ago, Dujith said:

 

Yes, but that would require a ruling on it first tho. They cant just edit their T&C to allow this. 

Both those things are special cases that laws were created for. In case of anything else you get on a plan is yours.

Incorrect. If you buy something on credit you enter into a contract with the financier to lease the item until the full amount has been settled. During the lease period your legally entitled to possession and use of the item but you do not actually own it until the debt is paid in full.

 

This is why pawn shops will do contract checks on mobile phones before they buy them, because if the seller hasn't finished paying the financier can have the item seized and returned back to them.

 

The T's & C's to cover this is already included in the credit agreement for any item you purchase, be that store credit, credit card/store card or a written credit agreement signed by the debtor.

 

You can't just get something on credit then expect the law to say you own it without paying for it. This is exactly why right to possession & ownership are so well established in law, the difference between the two is a very important principle.

[Nayr438]

1 hour ago, WereCatf said:

Locking up the phone and canceling one's service are two different things, though: OP talks about locking the phone itself up, not about canceling the mobile service. Yes, canceling service and forwarding one's billing details to professional creditors is standard practice and that's perfectly reasonable, but locking up the phone itself goes too far.

While I would probably agree, it's really not that much different that what Phone Companies in the U.S. already do. Failing to fulfill a Contract can place the phone on a Global Blacklist reported as lost or stolen. This automatically prevents the device from being used on most carriers, ebay gets flooded with these devices which usually end up becoming parts phones.

While in this instance the phone is usually still usable outside of cellular use, it doesn't give the device much purpose and is technically considered a stolen device. While locking the device entirely could make it even more useless, it will probably still end up in the spot as a parts device. As far as the amount of people who probably reuse these devices in a cellular locked out state, I would imagine is pretty small.

 

I think the real issue here is the cost of mobile devices and the fact we even need finance plans for the average consumer to afford one, not to mention how much they try to push it regardless to try to lock you into there service and pay more fees. Personally I will never buy a device that I can't pay for upfront.

 

Quote

The app was launched earlier this year in collaboration with Kenyan carrier Safaricom for Android Go device financing

This I however find more disturbing. Android GO devices are typically at the bottom of the stack, utilizing slimmed down web applications in place of native applications. These devices are usually fairly cheap being in the $20 - $75 range, some companies even give them away for free. I can't see why someone would need to finance this, let alone why it would need a lockout. Android GO pretty much becomes completely useless outside of a active Network Connection.

[LAwLz]

12 minutes ago, Sauron said:

Isn't there... legal recourse for this? You know, something that doesn't involve installing a remote control app on your customers' phones?

Maybe in the US and some other countries, but who knows what the situation is like in Kenya.

I mean, the article is about payment plans for Android Go phones. Those phones cost like 50-100 dollars. This solution is probably far more cost-effective than getting debt collectors involved.

[Master Disaster]

1 minute ago, Nayr438 said:

This I however find more disturbing. Android GO devices are typically at the bottom of the stack, utilizing slimmed down web applications in place of native applications. These devices are usually fairly cheap being in the $20 - $75 range, some companies even give them away for free. I can't see why someone would need to finance this, let alone why it would need a lockout. Android GO pretty much becomes completely useless outside of a active Network Connection.

You're doing that typically American thing of forgetting other places outside of the USA have far worse economies than the west.

 

One example that was posted on here a few weeks back, in India its cheaper to buy a return plane ticket to Dubai and buy an iPhone 12 in Dubai than it is to buy it from an Indian mobile provider.

 

I can only imagine what it must be like in Kenya. To them, Android Go devices are probably all that 99.999999% of the population can actually afford.

[Master Disaster]

12 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

Maybe in the US and some other countries, but who knows what the situation is like in Kenya.

I mean, the article is about payment plans for Android Go phones. Those phones cost like 50-100 dollars. This solution is probably far more cost-effective than getting debt collectors involved.

That's $100 US Dollars, in Kenya that could be literally months worth of pay cheques.

 

Edit - I did some Googling, the average wage in Kenya is $70 US, the Nokia C1 is available to buy in Kenya for $40 US (rough conversions) so the price is a little over half a months wage for a person on an average salary.