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Another ARM(1) - Apple event introduces new low-end Macs as well as updated OS

williamcll
Go to solution Solved by LAwLz,

Apple's first silicon for PCs will be named "M1".

 

 

CPU:

  • 4 big cores that are, according to Apple, "the fastest core in the world", and I actually believe them. I would not be surprised if this CPU core performs better than Zen 3.
  • 4 small cores that are meant for power efficiency. Didn't quite hear what Apple said about performance but I do believe they said the quad core low power cores would offer performance better than the dual core Intel Mac. I am far more skeptical of that claim though, and they might be measuring at some specific power level that is optimal for the M1's small cores but not for whichever Intel CPU they are comparing it against.
  • At 10 watts of power limit (the MacBook Air limit) the M1 offers twice the performance of Intel's latest CPU.
  • 3 times higher performance per watt compared to Intel at other power budgets.

 

GPU:

  • 8 cores.
  • 128 execution units.
  • 2.6 TFLOPs of performance.
  • 82 gigatexels per second
  • 41 gigapixels per second.
  • Twice the performance per watt at 10 watts power envelop, but we have no idea which chip they are comparing against (probably the Intel chip in the latest Macbook).
  • "World's fastest integrated graphics".

 

 

Other:

  • 16-core Neural Engine with 11 trillion operations per second.
  • It's an SoC, so it as a lot of stuff built in. Basically everything is on a single chip just like in the iPhone and iPads.
  • It has a "unified memory architecture" which lets all SoC components (CPU, GPU and I presume NPU) access the same memory directly. So no need for the GPU to request resources from the CPU.
  • 16 billion 5nm transistors.
  • Secure enclave built in.
  • Very low power video playback.
  • Neural Engine.
  • PCIe 4.0 support
  • Thunderbolt and USB 4 support.
  • Very good image processing (probably the same as in the iPhone).
  • Crypt accelerator (although a lot of CPUs has this these days).
  • NVMe support
  • "Always-on processor" which probably refers to some very deep sleep state.

 

 

Software:

  • MacOS using M1 processors can directly run iPhone and iPad apps!
  • MacOS Big Sur has been optimized for the M1.
  • "iPhone-style instant-on" which to me mean you never really turn the computer off, you just lock it and it goes into sleep. This is really nice.
  • Safari is 1.9x as responsive on the M1 compared to some other Mac configuration. They don't specify what they are comparing against really.
  • "Universal apps" is Apple's name for packaging both ARM and x86 compatible apps into one program. So developers only have to release one version of their apps and it will be able to run on both ARM and x86. None of this "which version do you want to download ARM|x86" we have seen on Windows.
  • Rosetta 2 allows x86-only programs to run on Apple's ARM processor. According to Apple some programs even perform better on Rosetta 2 than on an x86 Mac. But that might just be some handful of apps and because the M1 is faster than the x86 processor. Performance remains to be seen.
2 minutes ago, Belzebuth said:

If you wan't macOS, a good display, class leading battery life, ... It really is a good purchase. I don't own a mac but I might buy one if bench are good.

I will probs make a topic on it when I get it! 

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1 hour ago, LAwLz said:
  • 4 big cores that are, according to Apple, "the fastest core in the world", and I actually believe them. I would not be surprised if this CPU core performs better than Zen 3.

probably since theyre ARM and that means RISC, but youre also comparing apples to oranges

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Just now, Sousuke said:

I will probs make a topic on it when I get it! 

Please do!

 

If you take suggestions please do preliminary Cinebench, Geekbench, and thermal testing. You don't have to go too in-depth I expect LTT to do a full in-depth testing video. But just some quick numbers would be great.

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55 minutes ago, jollander said:

Ok, Macbook pro can playback 8k full res in Davinci Resolve without dropping fames. That's kinda awesome.

likely in BM raw. which isn't all that impressive given a 2020 macbook pro 16in can do a few 12k playbacks at once

Good luck, Have fun, Build PC, and have a last gen console for use once a year. I should answer most of the time between 9 to 3 PST

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1 hour ago, williamcll said:

A new yorker's gonna be real mad.

Highly doubt it. Their new M1 probably won't throttle, overheat, or start ticking like some Intel chips do in the recent macbook air models with their famous wireless heat pipe design.

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2 minutes ago, NotTheFirstDaniel said:

Please do!

 

If you take suggestions please do preliminary Cinebench, Geekbench, and thermal testing. You don't have to go too in-depth I expect LTT to do a full in-depth testing video. But just some quick numbers would be great.

Will do! Will also do a comparison to my current MacBook Air (2018) before I sell it!

Main Machine:  16 inch MacBook Pro (2021), Apple M1 Pro (10 CPU, 16 GPU Core), 512GB SDD, 16GB RAM

Gaming Machine:  Acer Nitro 5, Core i7 10750H, RTX 3060 (L) 6GB, 1TB SSD (Boot), 2TB SSD (Storage), 32GB DDR4 RAM

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Network Gear:  TP Link Gigabit 24 Port Switch, TP-Link Deco M4 Mesh Wi-Fi, M1 MacMini File & Media Server with 8TB of RAID 1 Storage

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1 minute ago, Letgomyleghoe said:

probably since theyre ARM and that means RISC, but youre also comparing apples to oranges

This is something I don't get. So assuming the instruction is the same across ARM and the x86 instruction set, would it not be faster on the M1? In theory there are alot more instructions that an x86 CPU can do in one than ARM can do. But lets say if 1 specific x86 instruction required 3 ARM instructions to work around, assuming the ARM CPU is much faster, wouldn't it still get the "theoretical" instruction done faster than the x86 chip? I heard before that the A12X in the DevKit was running "x86 code faster than x86", so could this be the explanation?

 

Please, please correct me if I'm wrong. CPU stuff confuses me.

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43 minutes ago, jollander said:

I just realized the Macbook pro is only up to 16gb RAM, but at the same time they brag about 8k video. I'm not experienced with high res video so this is a shoutout to anyone who is: Is that RAM enough in a real-life workload for 8k editing?

ha no. reslove the program they mentioned even for 1080p really wants 16gb of ram for the system. maybe you can get some 2.5k or 4k work done but nothing crazy complicated

Good luck, Have fun, Build PC, and have a last gen console for use once a year. I should answer most of the time between 9 to 3 PST

NightHawk 3.0: R7 5700x @, B550A vision D, H105, 2x32gb Oloy 3600, Sapphire RX 6700XT  Nitro+, Corsair RM750X, 500 gb 850 evo, 2tb rocket and 5tb Toshiba x300, 2x 6TB WD Black W10 all in a 750D airflow.
GF PC: (nighthawk 2.0): R7 2700x, B450m vision D, 4x8gb Geli 2933, Strix GTX970, CX650M RGB, Obsidian 350D

Skunkworks: R5 3500U, 16gb, 500gb Adata XPG 6000 lite, Vega 8. HP probook G455R G6 Ubuntu 20. LTS

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1 hour ago, BuckGup said:

Faster than 98% they say? I doubt it

Maybe they're comparing at the same power draw, meaning it's going against only Pentiums and m5s lol

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Linus is going to be mad that the Mac Mini no longer comes with a 10-gigabit Ethernet option.

 

I feel like that's gonna be the climax of the review...

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Just now, Crossbred said:

Maybe they're comparing at the same power draw, meaning it's going against only Pentiums and m5s lol

Faster could be just single core. I believe the M1 chip is faster than most Intel laptops out there in single core performance. That's already a huge chunk of "laptops sold last year" as their criteria. And also in 2019, Renoir wasn't a thing, it was Picasso. Picasso, no offense to AMD, was shit. It was Zen+ in a time where both Intel and AMD moved passed it. It was not worth it to buy an AMD laptop over and Intel one back then only except for price. Add that into it. and you get close to that ~96%.

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6 minutes ago, NotTheFirstDaniel said:

But lets say if 1 specific x86 instruction required 3 ARM instructions to work around, assuming the ARM CPU is much faster, wouldn't it still get the "theoretical" instruction done faster than the x86 chip? I heard before that the A12X in the DevKit was running "x86 code faster than x86", so could this be the explanation?

if it's much faster, yes, but like i said youre also comparing apples to oranges, it depends on what chip they were comparing the A12X to too, it also depends on what the load is, again apples to oranges its kind of hard to say "this ones faster" without giving the workload and running it

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16 minutes ago, NotTheFirstDaniel said:

Linus is going to be mad that the Mac Mini no longer comes with a 10-gigabit Ethernet option.

 

I feel like that's gonna be the climax of the review...

Holy smokes, this will be a deal breaker for so many people... Really sad to see this gone. 

 

Probably to do with the fact that they haven't figured out how to integrate their SOCs with 10Gb yet.... Let's hope this changes soon

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Quote

Twice the performance per watt at 10 watts power envelop, but we have no idea which chip they are comparing against (probably the Intel chip in the latest Macbook

This is the interesting part, I'm curious to see how it will compare.

 

My guess is that its going to go ahead against the new mid range mobile CPU's in terms of performance but better thermals.

 

Glad they are pushing USB 4, it should equal things out for the thunderbolt vs USB shit fest.

 

Looks like "PCI lanes?" are very limited for now, I expect that will be resolved for desktop versions later.

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5 minutes ago, m0ther said:

Holy smokes, this will be a deal breaker for so many people... Really sad to see this gone. 

 

Probably to do with the fact that they haven't figured out how to integrate their SOCs with 10Gb yet.... Let's hope this changes soon

There's still an Intel-based Mac mini available if you need 10-gigabit. And yes, the odds are just that Apple hasn't had time to make 10-gigabit Ethernet available for the M1. That'll probably come with the first revision.

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People don't buy 13-inch macbooks for productivity.....They just need something "macbook" to show off. 

 

I expected Apple to come up with a really cheap air with a weak chip and long battery life that starts at 599

Maybe it's just that they didn't have enough time to make a different chip for the air

 

I think it's actually better to make the airs more "air"--cheaper, weaker, targeted for students

 

and the pros more "pro"--with more power and more thickness to improve cooling instead of just going from 15-inch to 16, or maybe it's because Apple HATES fans, heat-pipes, and fins.

 

Apple's engineering on macbook pros were better, but now compared to the new XPS, and even the ROG, Legion and MSI thin-and-light gaming laptops, the internal design of macbook pro is surely outdated. Other manufacturers have learnt how to put a LOT of cooling inside a thin module while Apple still cannot.

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I came here to vent my frustration. Apple can not offer 8 and/or 16 GB RAM and call it a "pro" - how am I supposed to run Chrome with my VMs? :D
Sure they swapped only the "base" models of Macbooks but unless they have a M1X chip with 32GB (which I assume they don't) it won't be usable. My assumption is that they sacrifice bandwidth on the M.2 SSDs to drastically swap unnecessary stuff. Also 1500$ for 8GB model of Macbook Pro model? Who is going to buy that? You can't offer "up to 32GB" one year and the next one "up to 16GB". I am kinda torn between buying what is still available before and they completely cut off Intel lineup.   
 

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1 hour ago, Smit Devrukhkar said:

That cannot be real. 8k full res playback, if that is true then damnnnn.

not really hard with gpu acceleration

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39 minutes ago, m0ther said:

Holy smokes, this will be a deal breaker for so many people... Really sad to see this gone. 

 

Probably to do with the fact that they haven't figured out how to integrate their SOCs with 10Gb yet.... Let's hope this changes soon

But couldn't you just add a TB to 10GE dongle if you really need it? Those chips are expensive so if it's a way to keep costs down on the base model it makes sense.

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12 minutes ago, PeterBocan said:

I came here to vent my frustration. Apple can not offer 8 and/or 16 GB RAM and call it a "pro" - how am I supposed to run Chrome with my VMs? :D
Sure they swapped only the "base" models of Macbooks but unless they have a M1X chip with 32GB (which I assume they don't) it won't be usable. My assumption is that they sacrifice bandwidth on the M.2 SSDs to drastically swap unnecessary stuff. Also 1500$ for 8GB model of Macbook Pro model? Who is going to buy that? You can't offer "up to 32GB" one year and the next one "up to 16GB". I am kinda torn between buying what is still available before and they completely cut off Intel lineup.   
 

Did the MacBook Pro with Intel ever have 32GB of RAM outside of the 16"?

 

I just see this as a drop-in replacement. The *actual* successor to the 13" MBP which will be a 14" one I think is rumored to come next year.

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43 minutes ago, m0ther said:

Holy smokes, this will be a deal breaker for so many people... Really sad to see this gone. 

 

it really wont, not many people have 10gbps internet, or the need for it, theirs not many uses unless your a chad like linus uploading 8k video and transfering it around computers, and in which case you wont be wanting to use a mac mini

AMD blackout rig

 

cpu: ryzen 5 3600 @4.4ghz @1.35v

gpu: rx5700xt 2200mhz

ram: vengeance lpx c15 3200mhz

mobo: gigabyte b550 auros pro 

psu: cooler master mwe 650w

case: masterbox mbx520

fans:Noctua industrial 3000rpm x6

 

 

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14 minutes ago, Kisces said:

and the pros more "pro"--with more power and more thickness to improve cooling instead of just going from 15-inch to 16, or maybe it's because Apple HATES fans, heat-pipes, and fins.

You're not wrong. I think the Apple III was the device that would break itself over extended use because it had no fans. Hate isn't a strong enough word for Steve Jobs and fans.

 

14 minutes ago, Kisces said:

Apple's engineering on macbook pros were better, but now compared to the new XPS, and even the ROG, Legion and MSI thin-and-light gaming laptops, the internal design of macbook pro is surely outdated. Other manufacturers have learnt how to put a LOT of cooling inside a thin module while Apple still cannot.

That's the reason why they switched, right? Apple is a big ego company, it's their way or the highway. Intel wasn't designing CPUs that would fit in the "vision" of Apple's laptops, so they said screw it and made their own.

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15 minutes ago, PeterBocan said:

came here to vent my frustration. Apple can not offer 8 and/or 16 GB RAM and call it a "pro" - how am I supposed to run Chrome with my VMs? :D
Sure they swapped only the "base" models of Macbooks but unless they have a M1X chip with 32GB (which I assume they don't) it won't be usable. My assumption is that they sacrifice bandwidth on the M.2 SSDs to drastically swap unnecessary stuff. Also 1500$ for 8GB model of Macbook Pro model? Who is going to buy that? You can't offer "up to 32GB" one year and the next one "up to 16GB". I am kinda torn between buying what is still available before and they completely cut off Intel lineup.   

why not just build an actual desktop, do you need mac software? 

AMD blackout rig

 

cpu: ryzen 5 3600 @4.4ghz @1.35v

gpu: rx5700xt 2200mhz

ram: vengeance lpx c15 3200mhz

mobo: gigabyte b550 auros pro 

psu: cooler master mwe 650w

case: masterbox mbx520

fans:Noctua industrial 3000rpm x6

 

 

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