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Another ARM(1) - Apple event introduces new low-end Macs as well as updated OS

williamcll
By williamcll
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Go to solution Solved by LAwLz,

Apple's first silicon for PCs will be named "M1".

 

 

CPU:

  • 4 big cores that are, according to Apple, "the fastest core in the world", and I actually believe them. I would not be surprised if this CPU core performs better than Zen 3.
  • 4 small cores that are meant for power efficiency. Didn't quite hear what Apple said about performance but I do believe they said the quad core low power cores would offer performance better than the dual core Intel Mac. I am far more skeptical of that claim though, and they might be measuring at some specific power level that is optimal for the M1's small cores but not for whichever Intel CPU they are comparing it against.
  • At 10 watts of power limit (the MacBook Air limit) the M1 offers twice the performance of Intel's latest CPU.
  • 3 times higher performance per watt compared to Intel at other power budgets.

 

GPU:

  • 8 cores.
  • 128 execution units.
  • 2.6 TFLOPs of performance.
  • 82 gigatexels per second
  • 41 gigapixels per second.
  • Twice the performance per watt at 10 watts power envelop, but we have no idea which chip they are comparing against (probably the Intel chip in the latest Macbook).
  • "World's fastest integrated graphics".

 

 

Other:

  • 16-core Neural Engine with 11 trillion operations per second.
  • It's an SoC, so it as a lot of stuff built in. Basically everything is on a single chip just like in the iPhone and iPads.
  • It has a "unified memory architecture" which lets all SoC components (CPU, GPU and I presume NPU) access the same memory directly. So no need for the GPU to request resources from the CPU.
  • 16 billion 5nm transistors.
  • Secure enclave built in.
  • Very low power video playback.
  • Neural Engine.
  • PCIe 4.0 support
  • Thunderbolt and USB 4 support.
  • Very good image processing (probably the same as in the iPhone).
  • Crypt accelerator (although a lot of CPUs has this these days).
  • NVMe support
  • "Always-on processor" which probably refers to some very deep sleep state.

 

 

Software:

  • MacOS using M1 processors can directly run iPhone and iPad apps!
  • MacOS Big Sur has been optimized for the M1.
  • "iPhone-style instant-on" which to me mean you never really turn the computer off, you just lock it and it goes into sleep. This is really nice.
  • Safari is 1.9x as responsive on the M1 compared to some other Mac configuration. They don't specify what they are comparing against really.
  • "Universal apps" is Apple's name for packaging both ARM and x86 compatible apps into one program. So developers only have to release one version of their apps and it will be able to run on both ARM and x86. None of this "which version do you want to download ARM|x86" we have seen on Windows.
  • Rosetta 2 allows x86-only programs to run on Apple's ARM processor. According to Apple some programs even perform better on Rosetta 2 than on an x86 Mac. But that might just be some handful of apps and because the M1 is faster than the x86 processor. Performance remains to be seen.
Posted

Biggest concern is this brings proprietary-ness for computers to a whole new level as well. 

Everything will be tied to that SoC. There won't be replacing parts, just replacing entire motherboards. Unless they tied the rest of the chassis into the SoC too somehow (like the display). 

RIP repairability. That said I'm sure there will be plenty of alternatives in the years to come (if this ends up being good anyway)

"If a Lobster is a fish because it moves by jumping, then a kangaroo is a bird" - Admiral Paulo de Castro Moreira da Silva

"There is nothing more difficult than fixing something that isn't all the way broken yet." - Author Unknown

Spoiler

Intel Core i7-3960X @ 4.6 GHz - Asus P9X79WS/IPMI - 12GB DDR3-1600 quad-channel - EVGA GTX 1080ti SC - Fractal Design Define R5 - 500GB Crucial MX200 - NH-D15 - Logitech G710+ - Mionix Naos 7000 - Sennheiser PC350 w/Topping VX-1

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Posted
Just now, igormp said:

Probably a dedicated hardware decoder for that, seems like they're betting on offloading everything they can from the CPU.

that's the secret sauce to the "we can't make the silicon any smaller" issue we'll be having pretty shortly.

"If a Lobster is a fish because it moves by jumping, then a kangaroo is a bird" - Admiral Paulo de Castro Moreira da Silva

"There is nothing more difficult than fixing something that isn't all the way broken yet." - Author Unknown

Spoiler

Intel Core i7-3960X @ 4.6 GHz - Asus P9X79WS/IPMI - 12GB DDR3-1600 quad-channel - EVGA GTX 1080ti SC - Fractal Design Define R5 - 500GB Crucial MX200 - NH-D15 - Logitech G710+ - Mionix Naos 7000 - Sennheiser PC350 w/Topping VX-1

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Posted

image.png.9623648776c3eef784312c5bfd7e18bc.png Woha what an innovation! 

R9 5900X, Arctic Liquid Freezer II 240, Gigabyte B550 AORUS ELITE V2, 2x16GB Kingston FuryX 3800MHZ CL18 Hynix DJR "Tuned" , Gigabyte RTX 4090 Gaming OC, Windows 11

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Posted

I just realized the Macbook pro is only up to 16gb RAM, but at the same time they brag about 8k video. I'm not experienced with high res video so this is a shoutout to anyone who is: Is that RAM enough in a real-life workload for 8k editing?

Potato

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Posted
2 minutes ago, bcredeur97 said:



Everything will be tied to that SoC. There won't be replacing parts, just replacing entire motherboards.

What "parts" can you replace on a mac laptop? This is the same as they have always been

Gaming Room

Office PC

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Posted
3 minutes ago, KnoT said:

image.png.9623648776c3eef784312c5bfd7e18bc.png Woha what an innovation! 

 

2 minutes ago, sponkemonke said:

I like how "active cooling" is a feature on the Pro model

That's because the other product they announced was fan-less.

 

If you announce two products, one with a fan and one without, it make sense to specify which is which.

 

 

  

1 minute ago, dilpickle said:

What "parts" can you replace on a mac laptop? This is the same as they have always been

Yeah, and that's how most laptop companies "repair" computers as well. I had HP fix my Elitebook 840 last year. They just ripped out the entire motherboard and put in a new one.

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Posted

"Fastest CPU core in the world"

 

...?

 

I'd love to see benchmark results. I have no doubt it will beat all of Intel's laptop offering, and probably the Ryzen U, but the Ryzen H? And then all the desktop CPUs? Really? I didn't see an asterisks on that slide so I guess so.

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3 minutes ago, gabrielcarvfer said:

Isn't USB4 basically thunderbolt?

 

USB 4 is based on Thunderbolt 3 yes.

 

But that has nothing to do with what I said. This is the first device shipping with USB 4 as far as I know.

Gaming Room

Office PC

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Posted
1 minute ago, dilpickle said:

What "parts" can you replace on a mac laptop? This is the same as they have always been

true...

"If a Lobster is a fish because it moves by jumping, then a kangaroo is a bird" - Admiral Paulo de Castro Moreira da Silva

"There is nothing more difficult than fixing something that isn't all the way broken yet." - Author Unknown

Spoiler

Intel Core i7-3960X @ 4.6 GHz - Asus P9X79WS/IPMI - 12GB DDR3-1600 quad-channel - EVGA GTX 1080ti SC - Fractal Design Define R5 - 500GB Crucial MX200 - NH-D15 - Logitech G710+ - Mionix Naos 7000 - Sennheiser PC350 w/Topping VX-1

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Posted

Sooo.... Apple won't be using AMD and NVDA and intel anymore sooo 30% of the computer market will.... 

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Posted
25 minutes ago, suicidalfranco said:

"Now that Apple is out of the intel train they gonna make cheaper macs"

they said

...

999

🤣

If the performance is what they say it is, then same starting price is really good value

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Posted
2 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

 

 

Yeah, and that's how most laptop companies "repair" computers as well. I had HP fix my Elitebook 840 last year. They just ripped out the entire motherboard and put in a new one.

Other than RAM and storage there is nothing to replace on any laptop mobo. Unless you're gonna be soldering chips.

Gaming Room

Office PC

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Posted
3 minutes ago, NotTheFirstDaniel said:

"Fastest CPU core in the world"

 

...?

 

I'd love to see benchmark results. I have no doubt it will beat all of Intel's laptop offering, and probably the Ryzen U, but the Ryzen H? And then all the desktop CPUs? Really? I didn't see an asterisks on that slide so I guess so.

you can even put asterisks on the benchmarks. 

It's hard to compare with a totally different CPU architecture... which is why I hate geekbench results that everyone posts HEY LOOK MY IPHONE IS FASTER THAN MY i7 MAC

 

faster at what? a test that favors arm chips?

 

that said the people buying these rn are basically beta testers for what is to come.

"If a Lobster is a fish because it moves by jumping, then a kangaroo is a bird" - Admiral Paulo de Castro Moreira da Silva

"There is nothing more difficult than fixing something that isn't all the way broken yet." - Author Unknown

Spoiler

Intel Core i7-3960X @ 4.6 GHz - Asus P9X79WS/IPMI - 12GB DDR3-1600 quad-channel - EVGA GTX 1080ti SC - Fractal Design Define R5 - 500GB Crucial MX200 - NH-D15 - Logitech G710+ - Mionix Naos 7000 - Sennheiser PC350 w/Topping VX-1

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Posted
Just now, m0ther said:

If the performance is what they say it is, then same starting price is really good value

Meh. You can argue that "It's i9 performance for the same price! That's like a $500 value!"

 

I would've loved to see a $799 starting price, but that's just me.

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2 minutes ago, NotTheFirstDaniel said:

"Fastest CPU core in the world"

 

...?

 

I'd love to see benchmark results. I have no doubt it will beat all of Intel's laptop offering, and probably the Ryzen U, but the Ryzen H? And then all the desktop CPUs? Really? I didn't see an asterisks on that slide so I guess so.

That would be in single threaded performance I doubt if can come close in multi threaded performance.

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Posted
3 minutes ago, jollander said:

I just realized the Macbook pro is only up to 16gb RAM, but at the same time they brag about 8k video. I'm not experienced with high res video so this is a shoutout to anyone who is: Is that RAM enough in a real-life workload for 8k editing?

If you're editing 8k with proxy yeah maybe 16GB is enough. They probably did some magic on FCP too

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Posted

hats off to apple if they really do have  the world's fastest cpu cores, but i really doubt it can eclipse zen 3

       • Pixelbook Go i5 • Pixel 4 XL •

  

                                     

 

 

                                                                           

                                                                              

 

 

 

 

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Posted
Just now, bcredeur97 said:

you can even put asterisks on the benchmarks. 

It's hard to compare with a totally different CPU architecture... which is why I hate geekbench results that everyone posts HEY LOOK MY IPHONE IS FASTER THAN MY i7 MAC

 

faster at what? a test that favors arm chips?

Do ARM chips not boost and sustain like x86 chips? If they do and all code is made for the ARM architecture, then shouldn't the benchmarks be comparable?

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Posted
Just now, lostcattears said:

Sooo.... Apple won't be using AMD and NVDA and intel anymore sooo 30% of the computer market will.... 

For the bigger macbooks and macs they will definitely go with a discrete GPU unless they somehow manage to make their own competitor to the new nvidia and amd offerings, which I highly doubt. I would guess that the new amd cards will work well with the new apple SOCs given their long history, and I doubt Apple is stupid enough to go with an iGPU for their actual "pro" models. That would be funny though

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1 minute ago, Dogrider202 said:

That would be in single threaded performance I doubt if can come close in multi threaded performance.

Yeah CPU-core implies single-threaded. I'm intrigued on what it will do.

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Just now, m0ther said:

For the bigger macbooks and macs they will definitely go with a discrete GPU unless they somehow manage to make their own competitor to the new nvidia and amd offerings, which I highly doubt. I would guess that the new amd cards will work well with the new apple SOCs given their long history, and I doubt Apple is stupid enough to go with an iGPU for their actual "pro" models. That would be funny though

I mean they showed that at 10W they matched some of the best IGPUs that Intel and AMD have to offer. A MacBook Pro 16" uses a 45W chip, so they would have to scale it up. I think it will be able to rival at least the Radeon Pro of last year's MBP 16", maybe marginal improvements.

 

Integrated Graphics aren't a bad thing, the PS5 and XSX both have integrated graphics. It's just that because of power, CPU performance on a laptop is more favored than GPU performance. Alas, I think I heard it was Apple that pushed Intel to start taking the iGPU side seriously in like 2010.

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Posted

This might be impossible to test, but I wonder how far their chips can be pushed without their extremely conservative "active" fan curves on their Pro.

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