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EU governments plan to ban secure encryption

dasbene
8 minutes ago, Sauron said:

If it's already logged, sure. This could let them demand that a company log the data when they otherwise wouldn't.

Which they can also do with a warrant without legislation, besides if a company is not ok with this they just move outside the EU.... Or ppl will loose trust in companies residing in the EU and turn to options outside the EU's jurisdiction.

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4 minutes ago, jagdtigger said:

Which they can also do with a warrant without legislation

No, because if the data was not logged in the first place you can't retroactively retrieve it...

4 minutes ago, jagdtigger said:

besides if a company is not ok with this they just move outside the EU....

And give up on half a billion potential customers...?

 

5 minutes ago, jagdtigger said:

Or ppl will loose trust in companies residing in the EU and turn to options outside the EU's jurisdiction.

If you don't comply with EU law you can't operate in the EU, no matter where your official headquarters are.

Don't ask to ask, just ask... please 🤨

sudo chmod -R 000 /*

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11 minutes ago, Sauron said:

And give up on half a billion potential customers...?

Nothing prohibits them to keep their customer base....

11 minutes ago, Sauron said:

If you don't comply with EU law you can't operate in the EU, no matter where your official headquarters are.

Or else what? Force the ISP's to block DNS (which wont do anything because almost no-one uses their DNS servers)? Or ban every single VPN?

 

There is no way to enforce this dumb "law".

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9 minutes ago, jagdtigger said:

Or else what?

...or else you get ISP blocked?

10 minutes ago, jagdtigger said:

Or ban every single VPN?

You think something like Facebook would be usable if everyone you know had to open a VPN just to access it? Why do you think everyone complied with GDPR?

Don't ask to ask, just ask... please 🤨

sudo chmod -R 000 /*

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Only good thing about Brexit, no more dealing with EU bullcrap like this.

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7 minutes ago, Sir Asvald said:

Only good thing about Brexit, no more dealing with EU bullcrap like this.

Indeed, but i wouldnt put it past the UK gov to do something similar. I've heard prominent voices on the subject of the UK gov that we have effectively a choice between a Communist or a Fascist party, both require a 'strong' gov, which means both will want more power over the people, including backdoors into their personal online activities.

 

In the end it may just end up being the individuals responsibility to use encryption themselves that isnt 'flawed', instead of relying on the ISP and other online services they use.

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5 minutes ago, SolarNova said:

Indeed, but i wouldnt put it past the UK gov to do something similar.

 

In the end it may just end up being the individuals responsibility to use encryption themselves that isnt 'flawed', instead of relying on the ISP they use.

Of course, no denying that. It's crazy the world we live in. Everything is connected to the internet.

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3 hours ago, dasbene said:

The problem is that the law would just say backdoors a feature and not a flaw.

That doesn't work. It will force you to keep track of the user IP and things like that while the user have to choose to accept or deny such thing. Therefore it violate some parts of the GDPR in the first place as you will do things the users explicitly tell you not to do.

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EU governments rode the data privacy and data security hard the last years and now want to effectively ban encryption 😂

What a total joke

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Is it time to like, viva la revolucion again over there?

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At this point, I think it is inevitable that backdoors will get mandated by people who have no idea what they even are.  Then it'll just be up to the community to publish them and laugh at said governments for no longer having any non-"LOOK AT ME I'M DIFFERENT!" encryption channels to use for their spies.  That's actually the big problem for TOR, not enough users so it becomes semi-obvious to track.

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1 hour ago, dasbene said:

thats only the case if a server is one of the ends and a completly different case.

 

A compromise that has the hard requirement for the goverment to have access, thats not a compromise. End-to-end encryption YES or NO, thats a binary decision, so no space for any compromise. What they actually mean is something like: "only WE are accessing your communication and ony for REALLY REALLY BAD things". Its not a f****** compromise.

For all the caps and strong words, you are just making the point that the required compromise is unfeasible. That would just imply that the proposal contains, as usual, a bunch of empty statements and declaration of intents in it.

What is missing to justify the clickbait is a reason to attach an explicit "encryption ban" to this proposal, and it doesn't seem to have any. It could say "people should have their cake and eat it too": it would be cheap talk as well, but it wouldn't in itself be a prohibition to eat cakes nor a ban on having them.

 

1 hour ago, Sir Asvald said:

Only good thing about Brexit, no more dealing with EU bullcrap like this.

The EU is actually lagging behind the UK in this kind of initiatives...

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19 minutes ago, pzspah said:

If encryption ends the baddies will just find another way, as always.

There are already open-source solutions to encryption. So the other way already exists and is used. It's one thing they can't make just disappear.

These actions would only largely affect corporations and there users.

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1 hour ago, jagdtigger said:

Nothing prohibits them to keep their customer base....

Or else what? Force the ISP's to block DNS (which wont do anything because almost no-one uses their DNS servers)? Or ban every single VPN?

 

There is no way to enforce this dumb "law".

They did this before, all they want is a backdoor on everyone's pc to check on the data, how it's called or enforced doesn't matter, point is they can say "look we changed the law and therfore we're allowed to do this" 

 

Yes, speculation but that's sounds precisely what this is about - of course this backdoor could also read encrypted data, but that's just "bonus" lol. 

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5 hours ago, BuckGup said:

This is why we need age limits. Old people simply do not understand technology 

..right.. because the average 20 something year old totally understands encryption technology?

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1 hour ago, poochyena said:

..right.. because the average 20 something year old totally understands encryption technology?

Yes an absolute shit load more than a senior citizen ever will and that's a fact. It's just the differences in one generation to the next. I'm sure the generation I'm and you are in will be clueless about something a younger generation does or has in the future

ƆԀ S₱▓Ɇ▓cs: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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1 minute ago, BuckGup said:

Yes an absolute shit load more than a senior citizen ever will and that's a fact. It's just the differences in one generation to the next. I'm sure the generation I'm and you are in will be clueless about something a younger generation does or has in the future

I disagree. If you're kept in the loop of tech world, this just won't happen. People pre internet era were thrown into unknown and even if they drop in, I don't think they can catch up. You, being in this the entire time, it is.

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4 hours ago, gabrielcarvfer said:

Block DNS and discard packets with their IPs.

Yeah, like that whack-a-mole game did anything to any pirate site for example lol........

 

As i said before, unenforceable and it would get obliterated in court....

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17 minutes ago, RejZoR said:

I disagree. If you're kept in the loop of tech world, this just won't happen. People pre internet era were thrown into unknown and even if they drop in, I don't think they can catch up. You, being in this the entire time, it is.

That's what I am saying lol. Older people have much more crystalized intelligence and much much less fluid/dynamic intelligence. Old people retain a lot of information that's why most societies see them as wise. But if you try and get a 90 year old to learn a new language it's impossible. That's why younger kids can learn so quickly because their brain is basically all fluid intelligence 

ƆԀ S₱▓Ɇ▓cs: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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1 hour ago, BuckGup said:

Yes an absolute shit load more than a senior citizen ever will and that's a fact. It's just the differences in one generation to the next. I'm sure the generation I'm and you are in will be clueless about something a younger generation does or has in the future

I really doubt that. We aren't talking about basic computer literacy. Encryption is into the computer science field where only programmers/engineers and enthusiasts understand it. But there is also the privacy side of it where you don't even need to know a single thing about encryption or computers to understand if this is a good or bad thing. Just have to ask if they support the government being able to unlock their phone or not.

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9 hours ago, WereCat said:

Again? They just won't stop until it eventually passes won't they?...

 

That is how it always goes. Like in the USA, need some catastrophe to pass a bill thats been sitting for 5+ yrs.

 

They will always keep trying.

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5 hours ago, Sir Asvald said:

Only good thing about Brexit, no more dealing with EU bullcrap like this.

UK would never have GDPR if it wasnt for EU.

“Remember to look up at the stars and not down at your feet. Try to make sense of what you see and wonder about what makes the universe exist. Be curious. And however difficult life may seem, there is always something you can do and succeed at. 
It matters that you don't just give up.”

-Stephen Hawking

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There is only one part of EU that have written this draft, I really doubt it of will go through.

 

A draft do not mean it will actually happen at all.

“Remember to look up at the stars and not down at your feet. Try to make sense of what you see and wonder about what makes the universe exist. Be curious. And however difficult life may seem, there is always something you can do and succeed at. 
It matters that you don't just give up.”

-Stephen Hawking

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