MAJOR issue: Zen 3 Motherboard BIOS issues (UPDATE: FIX FOUND! 1933MHz IF Stable)

[terminalinfinity]

Issue first reported on reddit which I can verify. I have a 5600X and B550 tomahawk

There is an issue with the BIOS resulting in XMP profiles above 3200 dropping silent WHEA errors and hitting latencies upwards of 100ns

NO stability impact, but MAJOR performance hit.

 

I have replicated the issue.  In addition I lost all control of my RAM RGB.  Reported here:

As such, IMO any benchmarks W/ MSI motherboards AND XMP profiles above 3200 should NOT be regarded as accurate.  MSI is reportedly aware

[Ankh Tech]

3 minutes ago, terminalinfinity said:

Issue first reported on reddit which I can verify. I have a 5600X and B550 tomahawk

There is an issue with the BIOS resulting in XMP profiles above 3200 dropping silent WHEA errors and hitting latencies upwards of 100ns

NO stability impact, but MAJOR performance hit.

 

I have replicated the issue.  In addition I lost all control of my RAM RGB.  Reported here:

As such, IMO any benchmarks W/ MSI motherboards AND XMP profiles above 3200 should NOT be regarded as accurate.  MSI is reportedly aware

I was just planning a 5600x with a b550 tomahawk, why did you ruin my build msi

[Arrogath]

5 minutes ago, Ankh tech tips said:

I was just planning a 5600x with a b550 tomahawk, why did you ruin my build msi

apparently they did you a favor, too bad about this in the short term. I'm sure as long as this comes to light publicly enough MSI should be able to fix this

[Ankh Tech]

3 minutes ago, Arrogath said:

apparently they did you a favor, too bad about this in the short term. I'm sure as long as this comes to light publicly enough MSI should be able to fix this

Yeah, he saved me, but what other good board is out there for the same price range

[terminalinfinity]

6 minutes ago, Arrogath said:

apparently they did you a favor, too bad about this in the short term. I'm sure as long as this comes to light publicly enough MSI should be able to fix this

 

 

2 minutes ago, Ankh tech tips said:

Yeah, he saved me, but what other good board is out there for the same price range

Samsung B-die sitting at a pitiful 2133 now.  Had a 3733 CL14 stable before 5600x drop in. 63ns latency.

[Ankh Tech]

2 minutes ago, terminalinfinity said:

 

 

Samsung B-die sitting at a pitiful 2133 now.  Had a 3733 CL14 stable before 5600x drop in. 63ns latency.

Why, I was also getting a b-die, thanks man you saved me

[Ankh Tech]

3 minutes ago, terminalinfinity said:

 

 

Samsung B-die sitting at a pitiful 2133 now.  Had a 3733 CL14 stable before 5600x drop in. 63ns latency.

Maybe they can fix it soon, I love msi

[terminalinfinity]

31 minutes ago, Ankh tech tips said:

Maybe they can fix it soon, I love msi

I do too but this being the third bungled launch in a row, plus their response to the customer who reported the problem will probably be the thing that makes me by different in the future.  Having errors is understandable.  But when they're 1) repeated and 2) the response is to stonewall customers with legitimate concerns...

 

Well.  Fug them.  The writing was on the wall I guess with the gamers nexus "burying MSI" video.

 

Owner of B550 Tomahawk, X470 Gaming Plus Max and B450i Gaming plus AC but those will be last I buy.  This is the straw that finally makes me say no more.

[terminalinfinity]

UPDATE: Fiddled around a bit with voltages, command rate, timings, sub-timings and bus resistances manually above 3200+ MHz to see if it was related to stock XMP profiles/auto motherboard values or could be rectified with looser timings.   Issue persisted through all settings.

 

Heading to bed.  When I wake up, I will try dropping in the 3600 back in to make sure its only a Zen 3 issue and not a bigger BIOS issue affecting all generations (I did the 5600X and BIOS update at the same time)

 

(As a precaution I would simply avoid updating to the 11-4 BIOS under ANY circumstances if on Zen 2 or below)

[terminalinfinity]

UPDATE #2:

Installed 3600.  Works 100%.  Issue seems limited to Zen 3, but I'd still avoid upgrading your BIOS until a patch happens

 

Also, I got in touch with Hardware Unboxed on twitter, who used MSI motherboards in their benchmarks.  They told me they are using an AMD-provided BIOS, not MSI provided and not available to the public.  They also kindly re-tested with an ASUS aorus and said they got the same results.  So benchmarks on MSI motherboards should be okay, provided they used the AMD provided BIOS (Only given to approved reviewers who got pre-launch samples)

 

I'd also cross-reference any reviews w/ MSI motherboards with one more source, just for good measure.

 

Finally, fingers crossed it doesn't hurt the patch coming out but the MSI headquarters apparently just burned to the ground

 

[terminalinfinity]

Also adding a link to a discussion going on in the official MSI reddit, with the hopes MSI might respond there with an update

Im reading through posts on both AMD and MSI reddits on the issue.  Creating a list of boards w/known issues.

BOARDS REPORTED W/ ISSUES: B550/X570 Tomahawk, X570 Unify, B550M Bazooka, X570 meg ACE, X570 Gaming Carbon pro

 

[BTGbullseye]

This is not the first time this sort of thing has happened on MSI boards. That's a major reason I don't get MSI motherboards.

[Eajimoba]

https://www.reddit.com/r/MSI_Gaming/comments/jpvxz4/the_bios_incompatibility_for_zen_3_is_being_under/?sort=new

 

A lot of people with similar issues incl myself.

Still no response from MSI or from their mods on reddit.

Such bad PR.

[Blue4130]

14 minutes ago, Eajimoba said:

https://www.reddit.com/r/MSI_Gaming/comments/jpvxz4/the_bios_incompatibility_for_zen_3_is_being_under/?sort=new

 

A lot of people with similar issues incl myself.

Still no response from MSI or from their mods on reddit.

Such bad PR.

May want to give them a bit of slack, their building is kind of on fire...

[Eajimoba]

6 minutes ago, Blue4130 said:

May want to give them a bit of slack, their building is kind of on fire...

I feel bad for their building and employees but not for their lack of preparation and testing of the bios before release.

 

People are saying the previous 1.0.8.0 AGESA are having less issues.

[terminalinfinity]

Sporadic reports of this exact issue occurring on other motherboards.  Maybe a larger issue.  Im trying to confirm.  Ive found about 20 reports so far.

If anyone has a 5000 series and a 500 series board with RAM validated to run above 3200, could you try setting an XMP profile above 3200 and see if you get WHEA errors at minimum?  You can see them in OCCT, AIDA64 stability tests as well as windows event viewer

 

ALSO: Confirmed degrees of severity.  Sometimes its only WHEA errors.  Sometimes its errors+latency.  Sometimes it's no post.

[terminalinfinity]

 

Now that I'm looking for it, I'm finding lots of evidence the latest AGESA Patch C is bugged on several vendors.  AVOID THE LATEST BIOS IF NOT ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY.  ON ALL MOTHERBOARDS, NOT JUST MSI

[mrdoubtfull]

Seems fine on my B550 Gaming Carbon running RAM at 4000mhz 1:1 with infinity fabric at 2000mhz with timings of 16-17-15-15-34 1t.

[Eajimoba]

10 hours ago, mrdoubtfull said:

Seems fine on my B550 Gaming Carbon running RAM at 4000mhz 1:1 with infinity fabric at 2000mhz with timings of 16-17-15-15-34 1t.

 

You seem like one of the lucky ones.

 

With the specs in my signature, I can't get past 3200Mhz on RAM or 1600Mhz FCLK

[mrdoubtfull]

7 minutes ago, Eajimoba said:

 

You seem like one of the lucky ones.

 

With the specs in my signature, I can't get past 3200Mhz on RAM or 1600Mhz FCLK

Turns out I am getting WHEA errors. Not sure what that really means but it's been pretty stable so far. Sorry you're having problems!

[terminalinfinity]

22 minutes ago, mrdoubtfull said:

Turns out I am getting WHEA errors. Not sure what that really means but it's been pretty stable so far. Sorry you're having problems!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Hardware_Error_Architecture

Its hardware error.  If it doesn't crash your system that means it was corrected.  Uncorrectable WHEA errors result in blue screen. So far I havent seen reports of it resulting in stability problems. 

[Eajimoba]

I see a lot of users on Reddit with WHEA errors too.. I can't make out if its BIOS or Hardware related but I guess it'll be known to all once the fixed BIOS comes out and people are still get WHEA errors.

[Guest]

 Been thinking on this topic before a reply.....

 

So in the past.... far past... WHEA errors where a thing. All the way up till now.

Only a couple things come to mind really.

 

Based on any little bit of experience over say maybe 100 different processors, I've only seen this a couple of times. A 2500K pushed a little past the limits, but generally caused a blue screen of death. The cure was simply to lower the overclock. Some WHEA errors would still occur, but fewer and not always resulting in a BSOD.

 

I'm sure that motherboard manufacturer's are fully aware of the issue. We wait for bios updates, but that's the norm on any newly released hardware. A lot of issues will be resolved within the next 12 months, most all boards with several updates along the way. 

 

My opinion:

Ignore the WHEA errors if your system seems to run fine. Just remember that overclocking is never a guarantee. XMP = OC. 

 

 

[terminalinfinity]

https://www.pcgamer.com/amd-ryzen-5000-zen-3-undervolting/?utm_content=buffera60e9&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook&utm_campaign=buffer_pcgamerfb&fbclid=IwAR1o9o7-VmLJP5i0s00yTAIaCQnmfXPbtKjeTdXHpJ5hj9SE6SwnmYg5RS8

AGESA update inbound, with "improved infinity fabric stability for ram up to 4000MHz"

 

Should be here shortly by the sound of it.

[terminalinfinity]

8 minutes ago, ShrimpBrime said:

 Been thinking on this topic before a reply.....

 

So in the past.... far past... WHEA errors where a thing. All the way up till now.

Only a couple things come to mind really.

 

Based on any little bit of experience over say maybe 100 different processors, I've only seen this a couple of times. A 2500K pushed a little past the limits, but generally caused a blue screen of death. The cure was simply to lower the overclock. Some WHEA errors would still occur, but fewer and not always resulting in a BSOD.

 

I'm sure that motherboard manufacturer's are fully aware of the issue. We wait for bios updates, but that's the norm on any newly released hardware. A lot of issues will be resolved within the next 12 months, most all boards with several updates along the way. 

 

My opinion:

Ignore the WHEA errors if your system seems to run fine. Just remember that overclocking is never a guarantee. XMP = OC. 

 

 

This is true.  My general advice right now would be just make sure you run a stability test and don't assume its stable because it boots.  Treat even previously stable XMP profiles if you're doing a drop in upgrade as unknown.