Posted November 4, 2020 So I found this product from colour cnc and I think it is legit, what are your thoughts? here it is: https://www.stylecnc.com/fiber-laser-marking-machine/New-design-fiber-laser-engraving-machine-for-color-marking.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted November 12, 2020 (edited) "Applicable Industries: The color laser engraving machine is widely used in iphone back logo, TV controller keyboard, laptop keyboard, mobile phone keypad, plastic translucent keys, etc." Sounds very fake, I can't think of a way to get the pigment into the material without laying colour sheets ontop of the piece and using the laser to etch them in. You can't use a laser to change the colour of a material unless it's within the heating spectrum (wood is brown through black, some metals are blue through red but it is not suggested to heat a metal to 900+deg C just to change the colour.) https://www.permanentmarking.com/how-to-utilize-color-laser-marking/ Looks like it is just a process of laying pigment sheets and baking the colour on with the laser. But then the article goes into changing the top layer based on the temp and metal type. Guess they figured it out somehow. Insane to think this is a good idea for home use. Edited November 12, 2020 by GhostRoadieBL Odd article about laser marking found The best gaming PC is the PC you like to game on, how you like to game on it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted November 14, 2020 Author On 11/13/2020 at 2:08 AM, GhostRoadieBL said: "Applicable Industries: The color laser engraving machine is widely used in iphone back logo, TV controller keyboard, laptop keyboard, mobile phone keypad, plastic translucent keys, etc." Sounds very fake, I can't think of a way to get the pigment into the material without laying colour sheets ontop of the piece and using the laser to etch them in. You can't use a laser to change the colour of a material unless it's within the heating spectrum (wood is brown through black, some metals are blue through red but it is not suggested to heat a metal to 900+deg C just to change the colour.) https://www.permanentmarking.com/how-to-utilize-color-laser-marking/ Looks like it is just a process of laying pigment sheets and baking the colour on with the laser. But then the article goes into changing the top layer based on the temp and metal type. Guess they figured it out somehow. Insane to think this is a good idea for home use. So it is fake? I am confused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted November 14, 2020 it sounds fake but it's a real thing. Just takes a lot of understanding and trial and error to get the settings just right for each colour. Can't say I've ever seen something like this in person but there's lots of pigment etch transfer I have seen and it looks about the same depending on what colours you are looking for. laser pigment transfer gives more saturated colours but it is a lengthy process with lots of steps. The best gaming PC is the PC you like to game on, how you like to game on it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted November 14, 2020 Author 2 minutes ago, GhostRoadieBL said: it sounds fake but it's a real thing. Just takes a lot of understanding and trial and error to get the settings just right for each colour. Can't say I've ever seen something like this in person but there's lots of pigment etch transfer I have seen and it looks about the same depending on what colours you are looking for. laser pigment transfer gives more saturated colours but it is a lengthy process with lots of steps. So there isn't some sort of software that knows the settings for each colour? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted November 14, 2020 from what I can find it's spreadsheets of metal composition/thickness/purity/laser power/pulse width/# of passes/ambient temp which you dig through to find the material you are using and the colour you want. Then it's plug in a bunch of settings power, pulse width, # of passes and it gives you a test print. after the print finishes you compare colour and adjust some more tuning the laser to the exact colour you want and then replicate it for the batch of prints you are doing. The best gaming PC is the PC you like to game on, how you like to game on it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted November 14, 2020 Author 1 minute ago, GhostRoadieBL said: from what I can find it's spreadsheets of metal composition/thickness/purity/laser power/pulse width/# of passes/ambient temp which you dig through to find the material you are using and the colour you want. Then it's plug in a bunch of settings power, pulse width, # of passes and it gives you a test print. after the print finishes you compare colour and adjust some more tuning the laser to the exact colour you want and then replicate it for the batch of prints you are doing. So it is trial and error, are there any other machines that have a software where you can put the material and thickness and then the colour? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted November 14, 2020 4 minutes ago, Ankh Tech said: So it is trial and error, are there any other machines that have a software where you can put the material and thickness and then the colour? I haven't found any online. it's difficult to make a universal program because metal isn't a homogenous material and the compositions outside of extremely high tolerance and purity (high $) pieces is very inconsistent when it comes to heating evenly. No 2 pieces of stainless steel will colour exactly the same at the same temperature, adjust 10deg C up or down and each piece will be slightly different. Even across a normal sheet of steel there will be a tolerance it fits into (ie +/- 0.03inch) which seems small until you need to uniformly heat the piece to a specific colour range. The best gaming PC is the PC you like to game on, how you like to game on it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted November 14, 2020 Author 2 minutes ago, GhostRoadieBL said: I haven't found any online. it's difficult to make a universal program because metal isn't a homogenous material and the compositions outside of extremely high tolerance and purity (high $) pieces is very inconsistent when it comes to heating evenly. No 2 pieces of stainless steel will colour exactly the same at the same temperature, adjust 10deg C up or down and each piece will be slightly different. Even across a normal sheet of steel there will be a tolerance it fits into (ie +/- 0.03inch) which seems small until you need to uniformly heat the piece to a specific colour range. So it is based on the purity and quality of the steel? What if I buy steel from the same supplier every time, will it still be the same? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted November 14, 2020 It's not the supplier, it variations within the steel plate itself. I'd suggest starting with looking into how steel is made from ingots into sheets and it will answer most of your questions. The best gaming PC is the PC you like to game on, how you like to game on it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted November 14, 2020 Author 2 minutes ago, GhostRoadieBL said: It's not the supplier, it variations within the steel plate itself. I'd suggest starting with looking into how steel is made from ingots into sheets and it will answer most of your questions. thanks, I'll look into that, what about plastic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted November 14, 2020 1 hour ago, Ankh Tech said: thanks, I'll look into that, what about plastic? I'm trying to figure that one out, chemically it shouldn't be possible but there might be some polymer that changes colour as it melts. The best gaming PC is the PC you like to game on, how you like to game on it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted November 15, 2020 On 11/4/2020 at 12:12 AM, Ankh Tech said: So I found this product from colour cnc and I think it is legit, what are your thoughts? here it is: https://www.stylecnc.com/fiber-laser-marking-machine/New-design-fiber-laser-engraving-machine-for-color-marking.html This is a legitimate product, how those colors are achieved is essentially though thin film interference using the base material itself. Essentially you are forming a colored oxide layer, this is mainly used on stainless and titanium parts as those yield the best color spectrum. As with all lasering based operations all of this is done via trial and error there is no set method or option to just select a color as you have about a few dozen parameters you can configure in the laser and this is not including the material itself which can greatly affect the coloring. Even buying the same grade of metal will yield differences as there is a manufacturing tolerance, the best applications of theses machines if you want colored lasering is for artistic applications. Just know it is not possible top yield deep hues or saturation in color as most thin film oxides are almost of a pastel like appearance It's not possible to color laser plastic only burn it and it must be specialized material. Updated Modding FAQ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted November 15, 2020 Author Just now, W-L said: This is a legitimate product, how those colors are achieved is essentially though thin film interference using the base material itself. Essentially you are forming a colored oxide layer, this is mainly used on stainless and titanium parts as those yield the best color spectrum. As with all lasering based operations all of this is done via trial and error there is no set method or option to just select a color as you have about a few dozen parameters you can configure in the laser and this is not including the material itself which can greatly affect the coloring. Even buying the same grade of metal will yield differences as there is a manufacturing tolerance, the best applications of theses machines if you want colored lasering is for artistic applications. Just know it is not possible top yield deep hues or saturation in color as most thin film oxides are almost of a pastel like appearance It's not possible to color laser plastic only burn it and it must be specialized material. So utilising this for mass producing isn't reliable? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted November 15, 2020 Just now, Ankh Tech said: So utilising this for mass producing isn't reliable? It is reliable but you need very good process control and tuning, as the laser itself will also degrade with age and require periodic tuning and calibration on top of everything that is been discussed this far. Laser engraving on products is very relevant since it's superior to a physical application of something on top of a material's surface or even chemical etching due to the speed and reliability not to mention variability being able to change a design file and continue lasering where other processes will have much more work involved. What are you considering doing with this machine? Updated Modding FAQ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted November 15, 2020 Author 8 minutes ago, W-L said: It is reliable but you need very good process control and tuning, as the laser itself will also degrade with age and require periodic tuning and calibration on top of everything that is been discussed this far. Laser engraving on products is very relevant since it's superior to a physical application of something on top of a material's surface or even chemical etching due to the speed and reliability not to mention variability being able to change a design file and continue lasering where other processes will have much more work involved. What are you considering doing with this machine? Printing on branded products, with my logo, or, custom logo designs, and many companies don't have true coloured custom logo, mostly colour printing which erases, I'll sell stuff like flash drives, phone cases, charging dock, and the such, oh and maybe merch too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted November 15, 2020 4 minutes ago, Ankh Tech said: Printing on branded products, with my logo, or, custom logo designs, and many companies don't have true coloured custom logo, mostly colour printing which erases, I'll sell stuff like flash drives, phone cases, charging dock, and the such, oh and maybe merch too What you mostly will have occur with standard household products is just 2 tone engraving, not color engraving as the material the product is made of needs to be made of stainless steel which is the most commonly used for thin film oxide engraving to achieve those colors. It's not the laser that makes the color but the interaction with light and the base material to achieve it. What can be done however is to laser etch into the surface of material to then have coloring added to fill in the lasered void to achieve a colored log. Things like aluminum like on a phone will engrave well since it will essentially etch through any anodization and into the base metal but only yield you a gray aluminum not color. Updated Modding FAQ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted November 15, 2020 Author 3 minutes ago, W-L said: t's not the laser that makes the color but the interaction with light and the base material to achieve it. What can be done however is to laser etch into the surface of material to then have coloring added to fill in the lasered void to achieve a colored log. How to do that, I'm new to all of this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted November 15, 2020 3 minutes ago, Ankh Tech said: How to do that, I'm new to all of this It essentially had to do with how the laser marks or interacts with the material to create that thin film oxide, different power, speed, and a host of other settings determine these parameters. Depending on the manufacture some may have general guidelines provided if you tell them the marking application while others will not have any information and it will be up to the operator to determine it's settings. These sample cards are a good example of what can be potentially achieved on the appropriate materials. https://www.permanentmarking.com/how-to-utilize-color-laser-marking/ https://www.spilasers.com/application-marking/fiber-laser-colour-marking/ Updated Modding FAQ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted November 15, 2020 Author 2 minutes ago, W-L said: It essentially had to do with how the laser marks or interacts with the material to create that thin film oxide, different power, speed, and a host of other settings determine these parameters. Depending on the manufacture some may have general guidelines provided if you tell them the marking application while others will not have any information and it will be up to the operator to determine it's settings. These sample cards are a good example of what can be potentially achieved on the appropriate materials. https://www.permanentmarking.com/how-to-utilize-color-laser-marking/ https://www.spilasers.com/application-marking/fiber-laser-colour-marking/ Yes but I saw that you can laser engrave without colour and use colours to paint on it and then re engrave it or something like that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted November 15, 2020 5 minutes ago, Ankh Tech said: Yes but I saw that you can laser engrave without colour and use colours to paint on it and then re engrave it or something like that Yes what's essentially happening is you are engraving a recess in a material for paint to adhere well to and then afterwards just removing that paint from certain areas to obtain a logo or lettering for example. This is useful for materials that cannot be colored at all like on plastic which would just melt or give a burned or grayed text look normally. Updated Modding FAQ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted November 16, 2020 Author 8 hours ago, W-L said: Yes what's essentially happening is you are engraving a recess in a material for paint to adhere well to and then afterwards just removing that paint from certain areas to obtain a logo or lettering for example. This is useful for materials that cannot be colored at all like on plastic which would just melt or give a burned or grayed text look normally. Oh, so there are coloured laser engravers for certain materials, otherwise, I get a normal laser engraver and paint on top of that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted November 17, 2020 On 11/15/2020 at 11:33 PM, Ankh Tech said: Oh, so there are coloured laser engravers for certain materials, otherwise, I get a normal laser engraver and paint on top of that? That i'm not completely certain on but that "color" laser engraver should be able to also etch regular surfaces like aluminium/anodizing and paint without issue also. Updated Modding FAQ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted November 17, 2020 Author 3 minutes ago, W-L said: That i'm not completely certain on but that "color" laser engraver should be able to also etch regular surfaces like aluminium/anodizing and paint without issue also. What about fabrics? Or is a vinyl better for clothes, aslo is there transparent vinyl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted November 17, 2020 51 minutes ago, Ankh Tech said: What about fabrics? Or is a vinyl better for clothes, aslo is there transparent vinyl Laser marking fabric is doable this is commonly down now in industry to add patterns or distress jeans. For fabric what you're thinking of is heat embossing that applies a layer of plastic onto of the fabric. Those are good but tend to crack or degrade from age. Some higher quality products will have inkjet dye printing. are Updated Modding FAQ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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