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New Details of Intel Rocket Lake Officially Revealed

Go to solution Solved by Random_Person1234,
2 hours ago, Rauten said:

Oh joy, 18% over Skylake. So 18% over a 2015 product. Gimme a moment, gonna grab the fireworks...

 

Also, 8c/16t maximum means that the 5900x is going to reign supreme and unchallenged, and the 5950x/Threadrippers will be the only choice sensible for pro-sumers unless they're somehow already invested in the Xeon ecosystem.


I hope they can bounce back once they really get 10nm going, because to me this looks like waving the white flag; it reeks of surrender.
And AMD will not be any better than Intel if they stand unchallenged.

It’s kind of a weird choice.  Sunny cove was supposed to be a 2017 design.  This means AMD is only beating 2017 designs with 2020 stuff.  They’ll have a couple fat years, but unless they run like bunnies they’re going to get caught. Embiggened (not a word but read captain marvel.  It’s good) Sunny cove sounds like potentially a mess, but It’s newer than the ice lake stuff, and Xe at least sounds like it could have real legs.  A drunken step from +++++++ but a step.  What bugs me about it is it’s basically a blown up laptop chip.  It doesn’t have the security stuff it should.  It was designed for 10 but they’re building it on 14.  Who knows?  They might get something a bit like the 1600AF. Big but unusually clean.  Or it might suck.  I’m not too worried about the 8/16 thing, at least for consumer grade stuff.  Game Devs need time to get really fo’ realz multi-core programming down anyway. Apparently they’re skipping willow cove and going right from cypress cove to alder lake.  There is a path to catch up.  And while intel may not be 10 times their size anymore by the time they find their feet they won’t be smaller.  AMD will see very stiff and possibly overwhelming competition whether they want it or not.  It’s just a question of when.  Whatever comes after zen 3 is going to have to have some real meat on it or AMD will get beat down again.

Edited by Bombastinator

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15 minutes ago, porina said:

I get what you're saying, but I think we're at a point where if software can already scale well to 8 cores, they can scale well above that. The eternal problem is that some types of code just will never scale well with throwing more cores at it. Looking at the mass mainstream, there are still plenty of scenarios where 4 cores are still plenty and unlikely to be helped by having more faster cores.

 

I guess there is a more nuanced part to this, that if you have around 8 cores of resource you can do certain things, but if you had say 16 cores of resource, you might be able to do something more. Still, code will have to scale down for the majority that wont have the top tier CPUs. 

 

I'm sure the real software guru's of the forums can explain the nitty grity that i can't, but having heard devs teams talk about the difficulties involved in multi-threading i can say that it really isn't that easy. True most 4 core programs will scale to 8, but they won't necessarily do it well. Software generally needs to be designed with that many cores and threads in mind from the start to get the most out of that many cores, and that won;t start till more than HEDT has access to that many cores, (unless it's a HEDT or server centric program ofc).

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19 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

It’s kind of a weird choice.  Sunny cove was supposed to be a 2017 design.  This means AMD is only beating 2017 designs with 2020 stuff.  They’ll have a couple fat years, but unless they run like bunnies they’re going to get caught. Embiggened (not a word but read captain marvel.  It’s good) Sunny cove sounds like potentially a mess, but It’s newer than the ice lake stuff, and Xe at least sounds like it could have real legs.  A drunken step from +++++++ but a step.  What bugs me about it is it’s basically a blown up laptop chip.  It doesn’t have the security stuff it should.  It was designed for 10 but they’re building it on 14.  Who knows?  They might get something a bit like the 1600AF. Big but unusually clean.  Or it might suck.  I’m not too worried about the 8/16 thing, at least for consumer grade stuff.  Game Devs need time to get really fo’ realz multi-core programming down anyway. Apparently they’re skipping willow cove and going right from cypress cove to alder lake.  There is a path to catch up.  And while intel may not be 10 times their size anymore by the time they find their feet they won’t be smaller.  AMD will see very stiff and possibly overwhelming competition whether they want it or not.  It’s just a question of when.  Whatever comes after zen 3 is going to have to have some real meat on it or AMD will get beat down again.


Backporting is nothing new, Intel do this all the time when transition betwen node, even with broadwell case, early sunny cove design suffer for low Clock low yeild which is the result of new process node that immature, but this New Rocket is on far matured node, the clock speed should've been decent to be put on production

I'm not expecting crazy clock speed like Comet but should not be that bad, after all the most sales of these CPU are on i5 Segment, where the competition is really there, as long as they place their pricing right, the sales should be decent especially both AMD and Intel are on the last generation of current socket. if they can push something like 10400F on 150$ price, that should sell like a hotcake
 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, heickelrrx said:


Backporting is nothing new, Intel do this all the time when transition betwen node, even with broadwell case, early sunny cove design suffer for low Clock low yeild which is the result of new process node that immature, but this New Rocket is on far matured node, the clock speed should've been decent to be put on production

I'm not expecting crazy clock speed like Comet but should not be that bad, after all the most sales of these CPU are on i5 Segment, where the competition is really there, as long as they place their pricing right, the sales should be decent especially both AMD and Intel are on the last generation of current socket. if they can push something like 10400F on 150$ price, that should sell like a hotcake
 

 

 

AMD proved that while there are some people that only care about raw performance, a halo only gets you so far.  Intel could have creamed AMD long ago if they were willing to fight on the price/performance battlefield. Perhaps we’ll see it this round. 

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I think there is a lot of focus in this thread on CPUs with core count above 8. I get that reducing the core count on your highest end product is weird, but honestly I don't really care and I don't think the market will either. 

 

8 cores 16 threads is extremely high end. It's "only enthusiasts buy this" tier. Customers who buy 12 or 16 core parts on consumer platforms is a subset of a subset of a subset of users. They are pretty much non-existing. 

Having the best halo product is good for marketing purposes, but I'd rather have good products that people buy over really good products that people can't afford or buy. 

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33 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

AMD proved that while there are some people that only care about raw performance, a halo only gets you so far.  Intel could have creamed AMD long ago if they were willing to fight on the price/performance battlefield. Perhaps we’ll see it this round. 

this kind of ironic, but on recent years Intel CPU spike mainly due to 14nm shortage, which since recently AMD has become competitive, should've affect Intel supply chain on certain level

not only that, these years finally 10nm production is real, so unless someone on the top is making mess, I expect the price should be competitive

after all they have no choice, 
 

  

25 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

I think there is a lot of focus in this thread on CPUs with core count above 8. I get that reducing the core count on your highest end product is weird, but honestly I don't really care and I don't think the market will either. 

 

8 cores 16 threads is extremely high end. It's "only enthusiasts buy this" tier. Customers who buy 12 or 16 core parts on consumer platforms is a subset of a subset of a subset of users. They are pretty much non-existing. 

Having the best halo product is good for marketing purposes, but I'd rather have good products that people buy over really good products that people can't afford or buy. 

different country have different buying power, on many country where currency is weaker than USD, even 20/30$ difference can affect buying decision

I live on Indonesia, and bellow is the price of 3600 and 10400F respectively after adding similar class board from the same vendor 

 

AMD Ryzen 5 3600 3.6Ghz Up To 4.2Ghz Cache 32MB 65W AM4 [Box] - 6 Core - 100-100000031BOX - With AMD Wraith Stealth Cooler : 3.199.000 IDR
MSI MAG B550 Tomahawk (AM4, AMD Promontory B550, DDR4, USB3.2, SATA3)                                                                                        : 3.217.000 IDR


Intel Core i5-10400F 2.9Ghz Up To 4.3Ghz - Cache 12MB [Box] Socket LGA 1200 - Comet Lake Series                                                        : 2.399.000 IDR
MSI MAG B460 Tomahawk (LGA1200, B460, DDR4, USB3.2, SATA3) (By WPG)                                                                                            : 2.623.000 IDR

Price Taken from enterkomputer.com

 

That's almost 1.000.000 IDR price different on CPU and adding board to case, the deal is even better, on many country the price difference is noticeable enough for potential buyer to accept the compromise, if Intel would've Unlock the multiplier on 10400F, and Unlock Overclocking support as well that would be sick

 

Intel did already compete in price, and in many country, I am sure there is many people who willing to give up PCIe Gen 4 support and overclocking support, for saving some money, but they need to not stop here, I hope they can put more competition more on this segment, let's see, I hope they can unlock more feature as possible on B series chipset


who know, maybe we can get unlock all multiplier on all SKU somehow

 

 

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In 2021 Intel is going to launch both 11th gen CPUs and 12th gen CPUs!

Alder Lake is a big leap from Rocket Lake according to Intel,and you will need a brand new LGA 1700 motherboard for it.

 

Alder Lake will be on the Intel 10nm SuperFIN process node

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On 10/29/2020 at 2:24 PM, Senzelian said:

That's the last 14nm generation, right? .... right? Please tell me I'm right 😐

Yes. After that Intel will release their next CPU on their new 10nm process, which will be a rebranded 14nm process and not actual have any changes from the current 14nm++++++..... The true 10nm initially planned will be released as 8nm

/joke

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21 hours ago, CommanderAlex said:

I still like that fact that Intel still ships with integrated graphics just in case some issue arises with your graphics card,

I own many many Intel Cpus Haswell to the Lakes none have any integrated graphics, I never bought he low end Intel CPUs with it. Least you forget HEDT users too.

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16 minutes ago, staticpage said:

I own many many Intel Cpus Haswell to the Lakes none have any integrated graphics, I never bought he low end Intel CPUs with it. Least you forget HEDT users too.

Oh yeah I was referring to consumer chips, but yes I do agree with HEDT not having iGPUs and some consumer SKUs as well with F SKU chips.

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25 minutes ago, CommanderAlex said:

Oh yeah I was referring to consumer chips, but yes I do agree with HEDT not having iGPUs and some consumer SKUs as well with F SKU chips.

Wacky.  Server grade?  My haswell has an integrated gpu ive used precisely twice since I’ve owned it.  I didn’t think I could get one without it.  Thing was handy when I needed it though, even if it was only for testing.

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On 10/29/2020 at 7:24 PM, Senzelian said:

That's the last 14nm generation, right? .... right? Please tell me I'm right 😐

Eh...no. According to Doctor Strange: Fourteen million, six hundred and five of cases about 14nm.

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10 hours ago, Rauten said:

Oh joy, 18% over Skylake. So 18% over a 2015 product. Gimme a moment, gonna grab the fireworks...

 

Also, 8c/16t maximum means that the 5900x is going to reign supreme and unchallenged, and the 5950x/Threadrippers will be the only choice sensible for pro-sumers unless they're somehow already invested in the Xeon ecosystem.


I hope they can bounce back once they really get 10nm going, because to me this looks like waving the white flag; it reeks of surrender.
And AMD will not be any better than Intel if they stand unchallenged.

i always get baited by this. im like 18% improvement thats pretty decent and then im like why are they still comparing to skylake

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1 minute ago, spartaman64 said:

im like 18% improvement thats pretty decent and then im like why are they still comparing to skylake

Probably because that was the last time they had an actual legitimate IPC increase on desktop?..

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10 minutes ago, Mateyyy said:

Probably because that was the last time they had an actual legitimate IPC increase on desktop?..

wait really? then what have they been doing?

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21 minutes ago, spartaman64 said:

i always get baited by this. im like 18% improvement thats pretty decent and then im like why are they still comparing to skylake

That's similar to say for AMD to compare Zen 3 performance improvements to Zen and Zen 2. 

18 minutes ago, Mateyyy said:

Probably because that was the last time they had an actual legitimate IPC increase on desktop?..

Rocket Lake will be a whole new architecture system for Intel that will not be based on improvements over Skylake architecture (iX-6000 series). Intel's been squeezing quite a bit of performance based on improvements of Skylake architecture while still being on a 14nm process for the past 5 years showed how far they can go based on just 14nm. That in itself is astonishing but now for the past two generations or so, we've been seeing the limits of that process (higher heat/ decreased efficiency) with those generations. To be honest, I don't get why they could not reserve "Intel 10th Generation" to the whole suite of 10nm lineups but it is what it is. 

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6 minutes ago, spartaman64 said:

wait really? then what have they been doing?

Packing on more cores to keep up with the competition - that is to say that Comet Lake is essentially Skylake with more cores. Quite impressive if you ask me, not to offend all the raging fanboys but as good as Zen 2 is, it's competing with the 5 year old Skylake, not beating it convincingly. Zen 3 might finally be a legitimate win though for AMD, and I'm looking forward to seeing it in action. 

 

Actually maybe Kaby Lake had a very slight IPC bump, but we're talking like a couple percent at best iirc. Could be wrong on that though.

 

Ice Lake (10nm) did bring a substantial increase in IPC, but only on mobile because of Intel's trouble with their 10nm node (and those chips were quite scarce anyway).

That being said, that increase in IPC was almost nullified by Ice Lake's very low clock speeds. This has been greatly improved with Tiger Lake, which actually looks very good, though it's still only available on mobile.

 

I'm very curious to see how Intel manages to backport Cypress Cove cores onto 14nm. As much as I want them to finally release proper 10nm for desktop, this might actually be even more interesting in a way.

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29 minutes ago, spartaman64 said:

wait really? then what have they been doing?

Since they pulled the IPC increase out from Bob Swan's butt.

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31 minutes ago, spartaman64 said:

wait really? then what have they been doing?

Intel has been slapping a few more cores on and changing up the socket to call it new since skylake, in my opinion its actually kinda disappointing considering the scale Intel has compared to AMD, Intel has dumped billions into R&D trying to get to 10nm, IIRC 8th gen coffee lake was supposed to be on 10nm.

Also yet another new chipset? Why buy 11th gen when 12th gen is going to use LGA1700?

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13 minutes ago, Blademaster91 said:

Why buy 11th gen when 12th gen is going to use LGA1700?

Then just buy AMD if all intels are the same skylake 10nm chispet. If their throughput is more then its worth looking into if the value is there. Would you say that Intel is now a niche case scenerio?

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11 minutes ago, Orange1 said:

Then just buy AMD if all intels are the same skylake 10nm chispet. If their throughput is more then its worth looking into if the value is there. Would you say that Intel is now a niche case scenerio?

Depends a lot on what they cost.  A not so great intel cpu that can still do the job is better if it costs less than other options.

Life is like a bowl of chocolates: there are all these little crinkly paper cups everywhere.

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41 minutes ago, Orange1 said:

Then just buy AMD if all intels are the same skylake 10nm chispet. If their throughput is more then its worth looking into if the value is there. Would you say that Intel is now a niche case scenerio?

I agree value might be worth considering, AMD might have a faster and more efficient CPU, though if Intel is cheaper it could be a better value. I'm not saying intel is a niche, just not worth upgrading if you're already on 9th or 10th gen i7 or i9, unless you have an application that needs cores or care about a few more FPS in games.

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11 hours ago, Rauten said:

Oh joy, 18% over Skylake. So 18% over a 2015 product. Gimme a moment, gonna grab the fireworks...

 

Also, 8c/16t maximum means that the 5900x is going to reign supreme and unchallenged, and the 5950x/Threadrippers will be the only choice sensible for pro-sumers unless they're somehow already invested in the Xeon ecosystem.


I hope they can bounce back once they really get 10nm going, because to me this looks like waving the white flag; it reeks of surrender.
And AMD will not be any better than Intel if they stand unchallenged.

I would wait until proper benchmarks before comparing. Assuming appropriate pricing, it should be fine. Remember the 10900k (or whatever) is still competitive for gaming. 

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1 hour ago, spartaman64 said:

wait really? then what have they been doing?

If the tick-tock was still working, Skylake was to be the 2nd and last generation of 14nm product, the first being Broadwell. Skylake's successor was supposed to be on 10nm, but it didn't happen. So they tweaked 14nm a bit and we had Kaby Lake. Architecture was unchanged, but process was improved for better power efficiency and a light increase to maximum clocks. Repeat for Coffee Lake. They kinda stopped reporting on process after that point, so we don't know if Comet Lake is any different from Coffee Lake, but one thing we can say is the architecture hasn't changed. It is still based off Skylake.

 

As much as we meme on Intel still being on 14nm today, 14nm itself was late. Broadwell desktop mainstream was a very limited release shortly before we got Skylake.

 

It also isn't that Intel is unable to design new architectures. We had Ice Lake (Sunny Cove) and Tiger Lake (Willow Cove). The biggest problem for us enthusiasts is that they only went on mobile so far.

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