Where Gaming Begins - AMD RX6000 series Live Event

[maartendc]

Interesting times!

 

I was interested in a 3070 potentially, but the 8GB Vram is a bit low to my taste...

 

The RX6800 with 16GB might be a bit more interesting. But 579 USD is pushing it for what I am willing to spend.

 

In my opinion, strange pricing for the RX6800 XT, at 649 USD, so close to 579. seems like the 6800 XT is going to be better price / performance than the 6800 then.

[leadeater]

10 hours ago, porina said:

I'm most interested to see how that cache works. Is it "dumb" and only stores more recently loaded data, or is it more selective?

I'm hoping somehow it's just really amazing at F@H, 5800 could be the best value card, or it could be worthless and no use at all lol.

 

Spoiler

Side note the same could apply to mining but that would be horrific

 

[porina]

38 minutes ago, maartendc said:

I was interested in a 3070 potentially, but the 8GB Vram is a bit low to my taste...

 

The RX6800 with 16GB might be a bit more interesting. But 579 USD is pushing it for what I am willing to spend.

 

In my opinion, strange pricing for the RX6800 XT, at 649 USD, so close to 579. seems like the 6800 XT is going to be better price / performance than the 6800 then.

It is interesting, that AMD are using VRAM quantity as a differentiator against nvidia, but not against themselves. At least not within this product segment. 

 

As a general question, who here was looking to get a 3070 later today? Has the AMD reveal changed plans for that?

 

38 minutes ago, leadeater said:

I'm hoping somehow it's just really amazing at F@H, 5800 could be the best value card, or it could be worthless and no use at all lol.

On another forum some people are eagerly awaiting testing of these cards as the use case in theory would fit inside that cache, and the performance is currently limited by available ram bandwidth. Having said that, as a consumer card the FP64 performance is unremarkable so I wonder how one of these with practically unlimited ram bandwidth compares with for example Radeon VII with much higher FP64 rate but bandwidth limited.

 

I'm not up to date on GPU mining. Ethereum was the main one during the boom. Based on my understanding at the time, assuming it hasn't significantly changed since then, the cache would be of limited value. Ethereum was based on a large data set to prevent it from being implemented cheaply in ASIC, so if you have to access a large data set presumably in a random-ish way, a relatively small cache I don't think is likely to help much.

[leadeater]

10 minutes ago, porina said:

Ethereum was based on a large data set to prevent it from being implemented cheaply in ASIC

Correct, but it my also depend on how big the execution size is compared to how much data is loaded in to memory buffer. Hopefully it is useless, but also there are other algo and coins to mine which might work within that cache.

 

But yea hoping that is really useful for F@H, that would be great.

[idontlikephysx]

I didn't even bother to watch the live show but did watch various videos talking of the live event and the reason being ..

The only people that can get excited about gpu pricing these days is Americans, at times, or the filthy rich.  I am excited that AMD has gotten to the point where they are competitive with Nvidia but reality set in some time ago that AMD like Nvidia would want to please shareholders and such and so I expected what I saw in terms of pricing with this launch.  Disappointed but not surprised.  Competition is supposed to really drive prices down but it doesn't with many things these days.  It totally is price fixing / anti-consumerism but the bodies that regulate things / are watch dogs don't care.  

[Luxzio22]

Where my wallet ends.

 

Did anyone make that joke yet? Hope I'm not too late. 

[Parideboy]

33 minutes ago, idontlikephysx said:

I didn't even bother to watch the live show but did watch various videos talking of the live event and the reason being ..

The only people that can get excited about gpu pricing these days is Americans, at times, or the filthy rich.  I am excited that AMD has gotten to the point where they are competitive with Nvidia but reality set in some time ago that AMD like Nvidia would want to please shareholders and such and so I expected what I saw in terms of pricing with this launch.  Disappointed but not surprised.  Competition is supposed to really drive prices down but it doesn't with many things these days.  It totally is price fixing / anti-consumerism but the bodies that regulate things / are watch dogs don't care.  

Nvidia was the first one that dropped prices with the 3000 series, cause obviously they knew more or less what AMD had up their sleeve.

 

Nowdays you can get the performance of a 2080ti for 600$. I don't get it. People get stuck on tiers, and forget that the only thing that matters in the end is performance.

[AlTech]

12 hours ago, Random_Person1234 said:

I would think the XTX models would be released after Nvidia releases their supers and Tis.

RX 6900XT is fully enabled Navi 21 XTX.

[VeganJoy]

6 hours ago, porina said:

On another forum some people are eagerly awaiting testing of these cards as the use case in theory would fit inside that cache, and the performance is currently limited by available ram bandwidth. Having said that, as a consumer card the FP64 performance is unremarkable so I wonder how one of these with practically unlimited ram bandwidth compares with for example Radeon VII with much higher FP64 rate but bandwidth limited.

the folks over at mersenneforum? i dont stay as up to date as i should with GIMPS but something that's at least competitive with the RVII in PRPs would be very exciting, even the 3090 cant match it in that workload. 

[eri0o]

AMD also acquired Xilinx for 35B

 

https://www.amd.com/en/press-releases/2020-10-27-amd-to-acquire-xilinx-creating-the-industry-s-high-performance-computing

 

Does anyone knows what is the plan here?

[rawrdaysgoby]

Remember guys in Jayz2cent vid they saw the 6900XT on the slide it said +rage mode + smart memory vs the 3090. Though it is still less wattage then the 3090 sooo...

[RejZoR]

Sweet mother of god, has anyone seen the back of ASUS TUF RX6800 GPU? The number of capacitors!

[Parideboy]

13 minutes ago, RejZoR said:

Sweet mother of god, has anyone seen the back of ASUS TUF RX6800 GPU? The number of capacitors!

Asus "stole" the pass through design from the 3000 series cards, nice.

 

 

[Blademaster91]

5 minutes ago, Parideboy said:

Asus "stole" the pass through design from the 3000 series cards, nice.

 

 

Hopefully Asus just didn't throw the RTX 3000 series cooler on there without making any changes for the GPU die or VRM's, AIB's have a reputation for reusing coolers from their Nvidia versions with AMD cards.

[BlackManINC]

11 hours ago, porina said:

From the given information, the CU count is different, same stated clocks and power. That leaves the only variable being binning of the die. 5900XT must have higher "quality" die than 5800XT. If we assume they were of similar quality, then the clocks would be more different, lower on higher CU unit. It is also one thing to see paper specs, and another to see how they actually run. So running clocks in practice may still differ.

 The 6900XT also has more "texture units", "stream processors", and "ray accelerators". I'm sure all of that would contribute to it giving a better performance, which I don't think will be any greater than the 6800XT anymore than the 2080TI was over the 2080S. Diminishing returns is what I expect when it comes to gaming. Beyond that, the base architecture being more efficient likely has more to do with both having the same TDP. It doesn't have to work harder to get a meaningful performance boost. 

[VeganJoy]

3 hours ago, Blademaster91 said:

Hopefully Asus just didn't throw the RTX 3000 series cooler on there without making any changes for the GPU die or VRM's, AIB's have a reputation for reusing coolers from their Nvidia versions with AMD cards.

something something strix 5700xt...

 

worked well for 3070s though, the temps and noise levels on the tuf/gaming x/ftw3 3070s are insanely low lmao

[PopReference]

4 hours ago, RejZoR said:

Sweet mother of god, has anyone seen the back of ASUS TUF RX6800 GPU? The number of capacitors!

 

Seems to be the reference layout:

Spoiler

 

 

[mrdoubtfull]

 

https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/asus-rog-strix-lc-rx-6800-xt-gaming-oc.b8216

[BiG StroOnZ]

1 hour ago, mrdoubtfull said:

 

Spoiler

 

https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/asus-rog-strix-lc-rx-6800-xt-gaming-oc.b8216

 

That boost clock though.

 

Quote

Boost Clock:

 

2250 MHz (reference)
2410 MHz (+7%)

 

[Rauten]

22 hours ago, maartendc said:

Interesting times!

 

I was interested in a 3070 potentially, but the 8GB Vram is a bit low to my taste...

 

The RX6800 with 16GB might be a bit more interesting. But 579 USD is pushing it for what I am willing to spend.

 

In my opinion, strange pricing for the RX6800 XT, at 649 USD, so close to 579. seems like the 6800 XT is going to be better price / performance than the 6800 then.

IMHO, they're being rather smart and evil with the pricing, even though it may seem weird.

Please keep in mind all this is based solely on yesterday's presentation, so truck o' salt and all that with regards to performance; also, I may be insane:

 

They know the 6800 trounces the 3070 in rasterization and offers double the memory; so even if it has worse RT performance, they can easily charge more for it. 

 

The 6800XT more or less trades blows with the 3080, while also offering more VRAM, although slower. Also, RT performance is also likely going to be quite worse (otherwise they would've shown numbers yesterday) so they need to drop the price a little bit. More VRAM - Worse RT performance + Slightly better price = competitive.

 

Since the 3070 is 500 smackaroonies and they can charge a bit more than that, and the 3080 is 700$ and they want to charge a bit less than that, they used the situation to lay a trap:

• Why buy the 3070 when, for 75$ more, I can get a 6800, which is a better card with literally double the VRAM?
• And now that I'm at the 575$ price point, what's 75$ more to go with the 6800xt and get a truly high-end card?

[Delicieuxz]

13 hours ago, RejZoR said:

Sweet mother of god, has anyone seen the back of ASUS TUF RX6800 GPU? The number of capacitors!

Their all-MLCC design on the RTX 3000 cards has made them, by far, the first go-to AIB partner for people purchasing RTX 3000 cards. It looks like they see the small additional cost of MLCC caps delivers a fantastic return-on-investment through sales.

[RejZoR]

1 hour ago, Rauten said:

IMHO, they're being rather smart and evil with the pricing, even though it may seem weird.

Please keep in mind all this is based solely on yesterday's presentation, so truck o' salt and all that with regards to performance; also, I may be insane:

 

They know the 6800 trounces the 3070 in rasterization and offers double the memory; so even if it has worse RT performance, they can easily charge more for it. 

 

The 6800XT more or less trades blows with the 3080, while also offering more VRAM, although slower. Also, RT performance is also likely going to be quite worse (otherwise they would've shown numbers yesterday) so they need to drop the price a little bit. More VRAM - Worse RT performance + Slightly better price = competitive.

 

Since the 3070 is 500 smackaroonies and they can charge a bit more than that, and the 3080 is 700$ and they want to charge a bit less than that, they used the situation to lay a trap:

• Why buy the 3070 when, for 75$ more, I can get a 6800, which is a better card with literally double the VRAM?
• And now that I'm at the 575$ price point, what's 75$ more to go with the 6800xt and get a truly high-end card?

AMD has finally gone the route of smart design opposed to brute force they were doing in the past. Just remember the R9 290? It wasn't a bad card, but it had 512bit bus and that meant more complex memory interface, higher cost and higher price. R9 Fury, same issue with exotic HBM. RX Vega, the same with HBM2. RX 6000 series is a smart approach. "Simple" and cheaper 256bit bus with large amount of cheaper GDDR6 instead of GDDR6X and offsetting bus shortcomings using cleverly designed on-GPU cache. It's how NVIDIA went with GTX 900 series. Instead of R9 390's brute force approach they introduced framebuffer compression and tiling to squeeze more from a narrower memory subsystem.

 

Ray tracing is still under big question mark, but given it's used in both consoles, it can't possibly be that bad, otherwise it just wouldn't work there. Especially since ray tracing is less forgiving compared to rasterization. With rasterization you can do bunch of tricks to get performance. Tracing a ray is rather straight forward with very few corners you can cut (before image quality goes really bad as a result).

 

I'm frankly leaning towards RX 6800XT more now and I was already down to paying for RTX 3080, but refunded after they were basically unobtainable. Infinity Cache intrigues me and since I do plan on buying Ryzen 5900X, Smart Access Memory also intrigues me a bit. Then there is lower power requirement and 16GB of memory so I'm actually upgrading to my current 11GB instead of downgrading to 10GB (though for my 1080p it won't play such a role I'm guessing). Still, why not have more if I can.

[Parideboy]

2 minutes ago, RejZoR said:

Ray tracing is still under big question mark, but given it's used in both consoles, it can't possibly be that bad, otherwise it just wouldn't work there. Especially since ray tracing is less forgiving compared to rasterization. With rasterization you can do bunch of tricks to get performance. Tracing a ray is rather straight forward with very few corners you can cut (before image quality goes really bad as a result).

I think we'll see the true potential of this cards with new releases, games nowdays are implemented with Nvidia cartds in mind.

[RejZoR]

6 minutes ago, Parideboy said:

I think we'll see the true potential of this cards with new releases, games nowdays are implemented with Nvidia cartds in mind.

But if it already achieves RTX 3080 and RTX 3090 performance now, AMD being more present in the gaming scene, it'll only get better. But again, even if you look at CURRENT situation, it doesn't look bad. People often complain this game is for NVIDIA, that one for AMD, but is there really that big of a difference you should actually even care?

[porina]

7 minutes ago, RejZoR said:

People often complain this game is for NVIDIA, that one for AMD, but is there really that big of a difference you should actually even care?

On forums like this, people tend to over analyse every little detail of performance. A few % here, a few % there. It's a bit like the bottleneck questions that keep popping up. To me, they're not the best question to ask, but more appropriate is will a combination of components give me the desired level of performance? Is it good enough? If a game is giving me 100+ fps 1440 ultra, do I care if one GPU is 10fps faster? The software ecosystem and other features may be more important.

 

I made my bed in green's camp, I have G-sync displays, and make extensive use of the software. At the same time, I welcome AMD finally having a competitive high end GPU again, as it gives more options to those who are not so attached to one side or other, and it might help me get a 30 series card before 40 series comes out...