Ryzen 5800x or 5900x for my new build

[Pitrus]

I'm planning to buy the cpu at launch date. I know best would be to wait for benchmarks and reviews. But seeing how badly the nvidia paper launch wait, I'm scared that I would have to wait an eterninty if I decided to postpone the buy. My build is going to be purely for gaming. I'm not streaming any content, and I'm not processing large photographs or videos. Hence my question is are there benefits of the 4 more cores, and 2x the cache in 5900x for gaming, or would it be better to get the 5800x and then the price difference invest in the graphics card? (I'm torn between the 3080 or the new radeon either 6900xt or 6800xt)

[boggy77]

if purely for gaming, even the 5600x is probably enough.

[Stahlmann]

Go for the 5600X and invest even more budget into your GPU. This way you get the most possible performance.

[Pitrus]

24 minutes ago, boggy77 said:

if purely for gaming, even the 5600x is probably enough.

 

22 minutes ago, Stahlmann said:

Go for the 5600X and invest even more budget into your GPU. This way you get the most possible performance.

Thank you, that made me consider 5600x, but since I have been concentrating mainly on the 5800x or 5900x. I will go for the former although I still have two weeks to give it a thought

[Stahlmann]

2 minutes ago, Pitrus said:

Thank you, that made me consider 5600x, but since I have been concentrating mainly on the 5800x or 5900x. I will go for the former although I still have two weeks to give it a thought

Yes, at least wait for proper reviews. But my guess - as it has been in the past - is that the top end part (5900X) will only be slightly faster than the 5600X for almost double the money. For exclusively gaming you do not need 8 or 12 cores.

[Pitrus]

35 minutes ago, Stahlmann said:

Yes, at least wait for proper reviews. But my guess - as it has been in the past - is that the top end part (5900X) will only be slightly faster than the 5600X for almost double the money. For exclusively gaming you do not need 8 or 12 cores.

so gaming right now doesn't benefit from that many cores. But wouldn't getting those 2 extra cores help me future proof the build?
It's my first build and I want it to be the very best and want it to last at least five years. But the idea of saving 150$ or even 250$ on the 5900x sounds tempting and gaining those extra 10frames wouldn't make it worth spending that much extra. 

[Stahlmann]

Just now, Pitrus said:

so gaming right now doesn't benefit from that many cores. But wouldn't getting those 2 extra cores help me future proof the build?
It's my first build and I want it to be the very best and want it to last at least five years. But the idea of saving 150$ or even 250$ on the 5900x sounds tempting and gaining those extra 10frames wouldn't make it worth spending that much extra. 

We have no way of knowing if the extra cores will benefit you in the future. They could benefit you, but it's just as likely they won't do that much. However, we absolutely know that saving that money towards a better GPU will give you more performance now AND in the future. The GPU is just way more important for gaming-only builds.

[Pitrus]

1 minute ago, Stahlmann said:

We have no way of knowing if the extra cores will benefit you in the future. They could benefit you, but it's just as likely they won't do that much. However, we absolutely know that saving that money towards a better GPU will give you more performance now AND in the future. The GPU is just way more important for gaming-only builds.

What tasks would benefit if I went for the middle-ground of the 5800x?

[Stahlmann]

2 minutes ago, Pitrus said:

What tasks would benefit if I went for the middle-ground of the 5800x?

Currently there is no game that noticeably benefits from the extra 2 cores. The only uplifts you could see would be maybe in streaming or when doing heavy rendering with blender for example. If you really want the peace of mind. You can go for the 5800X, but no one can guarantee you that the extra 2 cores you pay for will be of any benefit to you. You have to decide that for yourself.

 

[Pitrus]

5 hours ago, Stahlmann said:

Currently there is no game that noticeably benefits from the extra 2 cores. The only uplifts you could see would be maybe in streaming or when doing heavy rendering with blender for example. If you really want the peace of mind. You can go for the 5800X, but no one can guarantee you that the extra 2 cores you pay for will be of any benefit to you. You have to decide that for yourself.

 

Since I can see you are way more knowledgable then me. Could you suggest a good cooler for the 5800x? would a noctua nh15 or a bequiet dark rock pro be an overkill if I intend to do some small/medium oc and should I go for something smaller?

[Stahlmann]

1 minute ago, Pitrus said:

Since I can see you are way more knowledgable then me. Could you suggest a good cooler for the 5800x? would a noctua nh15 or a bequiet dark rock pro be an overkill if I intend to do some small/medium oc and should I go for something smaller?

You could also go for something smaller like a Noctua NH-U12S or Arctic Freezer 34 Duo if you want so save some money. They will easily be able to cool upcoming ryzen processors. The big coolers like the D15, Dark Rock Pro 4 and Arctic Freezer 50 are just the best at staying quiet even under heavy load. Again, depends on what you want :D

[Pitrus]

1 minute ago, Stahlmann said:

You could also go for something smaller like a Noctua NH-U12S or Arctic Freezer 34 Duo if you want so save some money. They will easily be able to cool upcoming ryzen processors. The big coolers like the D15, Dark Rock Pro 4 and Arctic Freezer 50 are just the best at staying quiet even under heavy load. Again, depends on what you want

It would be nice if it would stay quiet while being able to cool the processor. However the D15 being very large most likely be able to run in only in a single fan mode on a b550 gaming edge wifi and corsair vengeance rgb pro so I started wondering if to get something smaller with a dual fan configuration

 

[Stahlmann]

2 hours ago, Pitrus said:

It would be nice if it would stay quiet while being able to cool the processor. However the D15 being very large most likely be able to run in only in a single fan mode on a b550 gaming edge wifi and corsair vengeance rgb pro so I started wondering if to get something smaller with a dual fan configuration

Youd have to run the D15 in single fan mode when using this RAM because of clearance issues with 2 fans. Like i said, for quiet operation you'd want either the D15, Dark Rock Pro 4 or Freezer 50. These 3 perform very similar. Just a matter of what looks good in your opinion. Although the D15 with a single fan has the best RAM clearance of all of them.

[Pitrus]

1 minute ago, Stahlmann said:

Youd have to run the D15 in single fan mode when using this RAM because of clearance issues with 2 fans. Like i said, for quiet operation you'd want either the D15, Dark Rock Pro 4 or Freezer 50. These 3 perform very similar. Just a matter of what looks good in your opinion. Although the D15 with a single fan has the best RAM clearance of all of them.

I think the dark rock pro 4 might not fit, or it doesn't fit according to the compability tool on their site. The dark rock 4 non pro however does fit. So I don't know how accurate that tool is.
Another issue might be also the case clearance. My case of choice supports up to 162mm which means if I can't lower the single fan in middle of the D15 it won't fit

[xg32]

5 minutes ago, Pitrus said:

.

the 5800x has the highest cost/core out of the 4 cpus for no reason at all, i'd pick from the other 3.

 

There are already games that benefit going from 8 to 12 cores, but it's not much, wait for benchmarks.

[Pitrus]

5 minutes ago, xg32 said:

the 5800x has the highest cost/core out of the 4 cpus for no reason at all, i'd pick from the other 3.

 

There are already games that benefit going from 8 to 12 cores, but it's not much, wait for benchmarks.

By the other 3 you mean 5600x 5900x and 5950x? the latter is out of my financial reach. So from 5600x and 5900x I would opt for the 5900x though it's almost double the price of 5600x. I was thinking of buying on launch, I know it's like buying a cat in the sack but the risk of the stock being depleted fairly fast, and the price being inflated by the shops, makes me consider going in blind. I know I might regret it

[xg32]

2 hours ago, Pitrus said:

By the other 3 you mean 5600x 5900x and 5950x? the latter is out of my financial reach. So from 5600x and 5900x I would opt for the 5900x though it's almost double the price of 5600x. I was thinking of buying on launch, I know it's like buying a cat in the sack but the risk of the stock being depleted fairly fast, and the price being inflated by the shops, makes me consider going in blind. I know I might regret it

the supply should be ok, i wouldn't mind pre-ordering this gen (though i'm still waiting for benchmarks first), it's matured tech, just make sure to get a motherboard with updated bios from a place where you can return stuff. In terms of new launches, zen 3 is very low risk.

[Stahlmann]

16 hours ago, xg32 said:

the 5800x has the highest cost/core out of the 4 cpus for no reason at all, i'd pick from the other 3.

It's not only about cost per core. It's about performance per $. And this we can only know for sure after benchmarks are released. But from the looks of it, it seems we have a new gaming king at 300$ with the 5600X. The other 3 Zen3 CPUs will only be a little faster because of the slightly higher clock. In most games the extra cores alone won't do much at all.

 

16 hours ago, Pitrus said:

I think the dark rock pro 4 might not fit, or it doesn't fit according to the compability tool on their site. The dark rock 4 non pro however does fit. So I don't know how accurate that tool is.
Another issue might be also the case clearance. My case of choice supports up to 162mm which means if I can't lower the single fan in middle of the D15 it won't fit

I happen to have a dormant D15 on hand, so i measured. With the middle fan moved as far down as possible the height of the cooler is 166mm. You can also go for the Dark Rock 4 non pro. It's only 5-10% worse than the Pro version, so it's still a good cooler. I used a Dark Rock 4 non Pro to run a 8600K overclocked to 5GHz in the past. No problem at all.

[Pitrus]

2 hours ago, Stahlmann said:

I happen to have a dormant D15 on hand, so i measured. With the middle fan moved as far down as possible the height of the cooler is 166mm. You can also go for the Dark Rock 4 non pro. It's only 5-10% worse than the Pro version, so it's still a good cooler. I used a Dark Rock 4 non Pro to run a 8600K overclocked to 5GHz in the past. No problem at all.

That's good to know about the non Pro since I couldn't find some good benchmarks. Well then I would have to consider something between the dark rock 4, the arctic 34 mentioned earlier, or a smaller noctua.

I contacted Noctua to see which of their cooler is compatible with my mobo since non of MSI b550 are listed on their site. I will see what they suggest would fit

[Stahlmann]

1 hour ago, Pitrus said:

I contacted Noctua to see which of their cooler is compatible with my mobo since non of MSI b550 are listed on their site. I will see what they suggest would fit

Compatibility is no problem with mobos. Any B550 board will be able to be paired with any AM4 air-cooler. But you should only use low-profile memory with big air coolers.

[Pitrus]

5 minutes ago, Stahlmann said:

Compatibility is no problem with mobos. Any B550 board will be able to be paired with any AM4 air-cooler. But you should only use low-profile memory with big air coolers.

This mobo has a big io cooler, which I think might be the reason why some coolers might not fit on it as well

[Pitrus]

On 10/23/2020 at 11:01 PM, xg32 said:

the 5800x has the highest cost/core out of the 4 cpus for no reason at all, i'd pick from the other 3.

 

There are already games that benefit going from 8 to 12 cores, but it's not much, wait for benchmarks.

"...the 8-core Zen3 CPU performs like a 12-core Zen2 CPU (such as Ryzen 9 3900X), leaving 10900K uncompetitive." This is a quote from SiSoftware from their internal testing. 

Using this as a suggestion, would going for the 5800x even though it highest cost per core, be reasonable?

[xg32]

6 hours ago, Pitrus said:

"...the 8-core Zen3 CPU performs like a 12-core Zen2 CPU (such as Ryzen 9 3900X), leaving 10900K uncompetitive." This is a quote from SiSoftware from their internal testing. 

Using this as a suggestion, would going for the 5800x even though it highest cost per core, be reasonable?

it's likely that the 5900x/5950x will be faster, whether the diff is worth depends on the benchmark, the pricing of the 5800x sticks out like a sore thumb for me, but that could just be me.

[Pitrus]

I went with the 5600x, already got it here with me, thanks everyone for help and suggestions