Sale numbers of NVidia 30-series released by european retailer Proshop.

[CarlBar]

20 hours ago, LAwLz said:

Proshop might be a little shop that usually only request 10 cards because they don't sell that much.

But Proshop might also be massive and regularly order 4000 cards.

 

Unless proshop routinely sells outside Denmark i can safely say they don't normally order 4000 of a GPU. Thats one 3070 per 700 population in Denmark. The 30 series might be popular but i doubt it's that popular. it would be the equivalent of the whole of the US buying over a quarter million 3070's. Demand might be way outstripping supply but it's not that high.

[Delicieuxz]

I put in a back-order for an Tuf Asus RTX 3080 with Canada Computers just under a week after they ostensibly launched. I was 9th in line to get one then, and now I'm 8th in line. So, in the past full month, there's been next to no movement in stock, at least from the store I ordered from. The store location told me today that they have just 1 more Asus Tuf 3080 currently on the way to them.

 

But the shortage means I have the chance to see how AMD's RX 6000 series performs and still be able to cancel or return the 3080 if desired.

[bluebold]

3 hours ago, CarlBar said:

 

Unless proshop routinely sells outside Denmark i can safely say they don't normally order 4000 of a GPU. Thats one 3070 per 700 population in Denmark. The 30 series might be popular but i doubt it's that popular. it would be the equivalent of the whole of the US buying over a quarter million 3070's. Demand might be way outstripping supply but it's not that high.

Proshop has webshops in Germany, Poland, Sweden, Austria, Denmark, Finland and Norway. Total population in those countries are 157.2 million (Source: Worldometer 2020).

 

I can see them ordering that many GPUs.

[Senzelian]

21 minutes ago, bluebold said:

Proshop has webshops in Germany, Poland, Sweden, Austria, Denmark, Finland and Norway. Total population in those countries are 157.2 million (Source: Worldometer 2020).

 

I can see them ordering that many GPUs.

I want to add, that there are also other EU countries that might order from a webshop in a different country.

Best example would be Austria, where they speak German and often order products from German webstores. That's another 8.8million people.

[RejZoR]

I said before and I'll again. I'm wondering how long it takes for a graphic card to roll out of the factory from beginning to end assuming there are enough actual GPU's to bolt them on to PCB. Seeing how factories can churn out some products in thousands an hour, what's the production rate for graphic cards for there to be such massive shortage when there are so many AIB's making them. Would be interesting to spot the point where things are choking. Is it AIB's not able to make enough cards or is the NVIDIA not having enough GPU's to supply AIB's?

[Deli]

Back in stock in 2022.

[RejZoR]

1 minute ago, Deli said:

Back in stock in 2022.

If stock will be so crap and new Radeon cards will have better, chances are I'll actually consider AMD this time. I actually had RTX 3080 pre-ordered and canceled the thing after stability issues were mentioned. I just didn't want to wait and at the same time risk getting a flawed product in the end. And since AMD announced release of new Radeon at the end of October 2020, I'm just gonna wait for that.

[Deli]

1 minute ago, RejZoR said:

If stock will be so crap and new Radeon cards will have better, chances are I'll actually consider AMD this time. I actually had RTX 3080 pre-ordered and canceled the thing after stability issues were mentioned. I just didn't want to wait and at the same time risk getting a flawed product in the end. And since AMD announced release of new Radeon at the end of October 2020, I'm just gonna wait for that.

I also have a 3080 pre-ordered. However the shop has no idea when they will have them in stock. Yeah, depends on how AMD rolls out its new cards. I may replace my 1080Ti with AMD this time also. Will make a decision before December.

[samcool55]

Just now, RejZoR said:

If stock will be so crap and new Radeon cards will have better, chances are I'll actually consider AMD this time. I actually had RTX 3080 pre-ordered and canceled the thing after stability issues were mentioned. I just didn't want to wait and at the same time risk getting a flawed product in the end. And since AMD announced release of new Radeon at the end of October 2020, I'm just gonna wait for that.

That's something I think a lot of people that are currently waiting for a 3080 are going to do.
It's all about who can actually provide enough supply for the demand for new high-end graphics cards.

I'm sure when people walk into their (virtual) computer store and still see that high-end nvidia out of stock, but seeing an equivalent amd card (or close to it) next to it that IS available, I wouldn't be surprised if a bunch of people go "well, that's available, so that's what I'll take" and buy AMD.

 

I'm not saying everyone will go AMD because for all we know their launch will be equally terrible, but the one that gets the most cards out there will be able to take away market share from the other one because the demand is there, and it's massive. It's the supply that will make all the difference here.

[Senzelian]

AMD:
Releases new GPUs.

Proshop:

https://www.proshop.de/RX-6000-overview

[Monkey Dust]

It doesn't seem deliberate. Nvidia doesn't profit from a shortage of supply, they profit from getting as many cards out there as they can sell. My theory is they set the launch date, very hard to move once money has been spent and certain people have it in their diary, and then manufacturing didn't go as smoothly as hoped. 

 

Also, regardless of the reason it's good news for AMD, so I really don't think it was deliberate. 

[pzspah]

I like proshop, they frequently list the wrong prices, gotten alot of cheap stuff from them over the years

[LAwLz]

1 hour ago, bluebold said:

Proshop has webshops in Germany, Poland, Sweden, Austria, Denmark, Finland and Norway. Total population in those countries are 157.2 million (Source: Worldometer 2020).

 

I can see them ordering that many GPUs.

That is a completely meaningless number.

Newegg ships almost all around the world. That does not mean they should be allocated a GPU supply matching the expected sales numbers of 7.6 billion people.

 

I live in Sweden and I do not know a single person who orders from Proshop. Proshop has 16309 reviews on the price matching website "Prisjakt/Pricespy".

For comparison, the larger CDON.se, which is one of Sweden's larger (not not largest) web shop has 87922 reviews. And that's a single shop. User reviews is not an accurate way of determining how big a store is, of course, but that should give you a fairly good indicator that Proshop is not exactly a big store in Sweden. My guess is that the same goes for a lot of other countries that Proshop do technically sell to.

From what I can tell, Proshop is mostly aimed at the Danish market but even then they have a ton of competitors. The Nordic countries aren't like the US where you basically only order from Amazon or Newegg. We have a ton of competitors. I have an account and have ordered computer parts from 7 different stores, none of which is Proshop.

 

 

My point is that the numbers thrown around in this thread are meaningless because people have no clue what the hell they are talking about. It's like "4000? That's a big number! Nvidia bad lol".

Proshop might typically order 4000 GPUs. They might also typically only order 10 GPUs. We have no idea. Not the slightest clue.

[Liltrekkie]

23 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

-snip-

Sweden has 10.23 million people living in it. Using your argument, the 15-30 people you know isnt a good representation of the rest of the 10.23 million people. 

 

For the record, in the US, Every 3080 on Newegg, B&H, Best Buy, and Amazon is out of stock. If you want farther proof, look here: https://www.nowinstock.net/computers/videocards/nvidia/rtx3080/

You can even see when it was last in stock, October 15th is the latest. NVIDIA is sandbagging. Everyone here knows it, except for you.

[Guest]

22 minutes ago, Liltrekkie said:

You can even see when it was last in stock, October 15th is the latest. NVIDIA is sandbagging. Everyone here knows it, except for you.

No one is denying that it's impossible to buy a 3080 anywhere in the world. But that's not what he was talking about at all. 

What he's saying is that without any comparison numbers from any other GPU launch, we can't conclude anything about these numbers from ProShop. There are just too many unknown factors. 

[RejZoR]

Well, to put it into perspective (population):

 

USA = 330 million

EU = 448 million

Europe = 737 million

 

A lot of people from outside of Europe think of us as bunch of tiny irrelevant countries. But as European Union, we count a higher population than USA. And at least within EU, it's pretty much a free trade thing. It's a quite big market with generally high GDP and while some shops are local only, a lot of them ship across entire EU. So buying from Germany, France, Spain, Poland, Netherlands and even UK was nothing uncommon. And we're into tech just as much as Americans.

[Blademaster91]

On 10/23/2020 at 3:34 AM, LAwLz said:

1) Source?

2) How long before launch do companies usually start production?

 

Without this info, your statement is just an assumption based on a rumor.

It's a GN video as others have already mentioned, the statement from Nvidia regarding supply is at 11:32.

Even if Nvidia started production months in advance, they forced AIB's to shoot themselves in the foot with not enough time to design cards, having enough partner cards out is important IMO because Nvidia limited the supply of their FE cards.

 

On 10/23/2020 at 3:34 AM, LAwLz said:

Yields and power consumption are not relatable.

Something can have really low yields and be really power efficient, and something can be power hungry and have bad yields.

Yields are definitely related to power consumption considering how hard Nvidia are pushing the 3080 to its limits, with not much overclocking room unless you use extreme cooling.

[Senzelian]

2 hours ago, LAwLz said:

That is a completely meaningless number.

Newegg ships almost all around the world. That does not mean they should be allocated a GPU supply matching the expected sales numbers of 7.6 billion people.

 

I live in Sweden and I do not know a single person who orders from Proshop. Proshop has 16309 reviews on the price matching website "Prisjakt/Pricespy".

For comparison, the larger CDON.se, which is one of Sweden's larger (not not largest) web shop has 87922 reviews. And that's a single shop. User reviews is not an accurate way of determining how big a store is, of course, but that should give you a fairly good indicator that Proshop is not exactly a big store in Sweden. My guess is that the same goes for a lot of other countries that Proshop do technically sell to.

From what I can tell, Proshop is mostly aimed at the Danish market but even then they have a ton of competitors. The Nordic countries aren't like the US where you basically only order from Amazon or Newegg. We have a ton of competitors. I have an account and have ordered computer parts from 7 different stores, none of which is Proshop.

 

 

My point is that the numbers thrown around in this thread are meaningless because people have no clue what the hell they are talking about. It's like "4000? That's a big number! Nvidia bad lol".

Proshop might typically order 4000 GPUs. They might also typically only order 10 GPUs. We have no idea. Not the slightest clue.

There's a bit of a difference between retailers in EU countries and retailers in the rest of the world.

Comparing Proshop to Newegg in that sense is pretty silly.

 

Your argument that "the numbers thrown around in this thread are meaningless because people have no clue what the hell they are talking about" is even worse. Yeah I get it, we don't know how many they typically order, but that also doesn't matter. They adjust that based on demand and public opnions anyway. They would also never increase the amount of orders just for fun or to gain publicity.

[CarlBar]

10 hours ago, bluebold said:

Proshop has webshops in Germany, Poland, Sweden, Austria, Denmark, Finland and Norway. Total population in those countries are 157.2 million (Source: Worldometer 2020).

 

I can see them ordering that many GPUs.

 

Whilst a side debate has started after that. Thats a fair point all the same, i raised my point more to highlight the fact that 4000 could be a significant over-order. With demand so high getting extra orders in ahead of everyone else's and/or making yourself look more attractive as a priority to suppliers is a good thing.

 

5 hours ago, Senzelian said:

There's a bit of a difference between retailers in EU countries and retailers in the rest of the world.

Comparing Proshop to Newegg in that sense is pretty silly.

 

Your argument that "the numbers thrown around in this thread are meaningless because people have no clue what the hell they are talking about" is even worse. Yeah I get it, we don't know how many they typically order, but that also doesn't matter. They adjust that based on demand and public opnions anyway. They would also never increase the amount of orders just for fun or to gain publicity.

 

Given the current supply vs demand there are good reasons to order far more than normal. Doubly so if you can cancel excess orders later on.

[LAwLz]

On 10/24/2020 at 1:34 PM, Liltrekkie said:

Sweden has 10.23 million people living in it. Using your argument, the 15-30 people you know isnt a good representation of the rest of the 10.23 million people. 

I agree, which is why I used the number of reviews for sites as well to roughly gauge how popular ProShop is in Sweden. The answer? Not very.

So out of those 10+ million people, only a tiny fraction are customers of ProShop. Therefore, you can't just say "well they can ship to this many people so therefore they have that many customers".

How many people they can potentially ship to is a completely meaningless number and is the type of pseudo-business talk that gets you laughed and ridiculed at business meetings and pitches. It shows a complete lack of understanding of the market.

If a small mom and pop shop only sells 2 graphics cards a week, but through FedEx can ship to anywhere in the US, would you say they have "328 million customers", so therefore this shop ordering 10,000 GPUs despite only selling 2 a week is reasonable? According to your logic, it is.

 

"Potential customers" is a meaningless number. What matters is the number of actual customers.

And wouldn't you know it, we actually have actual customer numbers for Proshop!

 

All orders combined for all 30 series graphics cards from ProShop: 4132

How many cards ProShop has ordered: 11053

How many 30 series cards are on their way or have already been delivered to ProShop: 1180

 

Do you see how fucking laudably stupid your whole "the population of those countries are 157.2 million!" number is now?

ProShop literally have had ~4000 customers for 30 series graphics cards. It is completely irrelevant that they can ship to 157 million people when only 4000 of those has decided to order from ProShop!

And to add to how meaningless these numbers are, we have no idea how many usually orders from ProShop. We only know that for this very high demand product, 4000 people decided to order from ProShop. For all we know, in a typical month they might have 1000 customers. We have no idea at all. You might as go to random.org, generate a few numbers and then use those to draw some conclusion about 30 series sales. They will probably corelate to reality as well as these meaningless numbers does.

 

Also, do you see how ridiculous these order numbers are?

ProShop has ordered 11,053 cards but only sold 4132. Now imagine if all the thousands of other stores all around the world did the same thing. Imagine if all stores ordered ~270% of their actual sales numbers, because that's probably what is happening. Don't you think that is contributing to the issue? Because Nvidia doesn't know which stores are actually in need of the cards vs which stores are just over-ordering?

 

 

On 10/24/2020 at 1:34 PM, Liltrekkie said:

For the record, in the US, Every 3080 on Newegg, B&H, Best Buy, and Amazon is out of stock. If you want farther proof, look here: https://www.nowinstock.net/computers/videocards/nvidia/rtx3080/

Not sure how this is relevant. I am not trying to argue that supply of 30 series graphics cards is healthy. What I am arguing is that these numbers from ProShop are somehow useful or relevant. We simply don't have enough info to draw any meaningful conclusions from it. In order to accurately come to some conclusion from these numbers we would need historical data such as how many cards ProShop typically orders, how many they typically sell, and so on. 

[LAwLz]

On 10/24/2020 at 9:21 PM, CarlBar said:

Whilst a side debate has started after that. Thats a fair point all the same, i raised my point more to highlight the fact that 4000 could be a significant over-order. With demand so high getting extra orders in ahead of everyone else's and/or making yourself look more attractive as a priority to suppliers is a good thing.

To highlight how stupid people are with numbers, 4000 isn't even what ProShop ordered for the 30 series like OP claims. It seems like people are just writing whatever numbers they want to try and make whichever point they want to make.

If you go to ProShops website and look at the numbers you will see that ~4000 is the number of cards CUSTOMERS have ordered from ProShop, not how many cards ProShop has ordered. The number of 30 series cards ProShop has ordered from Nvidia, MSI, Asus, etc, is 11,053, out of which 4000 is the 3070.

So ProShop has around 4000 customers (presumably including things like bot orders, and including things like scalpers ordering several cards) and they have ordered over 11 thousand cards in total.

Those 4000 orders are also, according to ProShop themselves, "enormous" which indicates that they typically don't even have 4000 orders.

 

 

So ProShop typically doesn't sell 4000 cards in whichever time period we are talking about (again, another unknown factor which makes the entire debate more meaningless) and now all of a sudden they decide to order over 11,000 cards. And people are surprised that Nvidia is having a hard time keeping up with demand?
I don't get why people are so quick to put on tin foil hats and believe conspiracy theories when the far more logical and simple explanation is "they can't keep up with demand. People are buying waaay more cards than estimated and they can't manufacture enough cards".

But I guess logical and simple explanations are way less fun than crazy conspiracy theories with 0 factual evidence to support them.

[Dream Machines Official]

55 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

To highlight how stupid people are with numbers, 4000 isn't even what ProShop ordered for the 30 series like OP claims. It seems like people are just writing whatever numbers they want to try and make whichever point they want to make.

If you go to ProShops website and look at the numbers you will see that ~4000 is the number of cards CUSTOMERS have ordered from ProShop, not how many cards ProShop has ordered. The number of 30 series cards ProShop has ordered from Nvidia, MSI, Asus, etc, is 11,053, out of which 4000 is the 3070.

So ProShop has around 4000 customers (presumably including things like bot orders, and including things like scalpers ordering several cards) and they have ordered over 11 thousand cards in total.

Those 4000 orders are also, according to ProShop themselves, "enormous" which indicates that they typically don't even have 4000 orders.

 

 

So ProShop typically doesn't sell 4000 cards in whichever time period we are talking about (again, another unknown factor which makes the entire debate more meaningless) and now all of a sudden they decide to order over 11,000 cards. And people are surprised that Nvidia is having a hard time keeping up with demand?
I don't get why people are so quick to put on tin foil hats and believe conspiracy theories when the far more logical and simple explanation is "they can't keep up with demand. People are buying waaay more cards than estimated and they can't manufacture enough cards".

But I guess logical and simple explanations are way less fun than crazy conspiracy theories with 0 factual evidence to support them.

Having read all of the comments above I can assume they were inteding to stock themselves but it wnet wrong because of limited amount of flights going on now. COVID has really impacted this and as we see it it's not going to be better at least until end of 2020... 2021 will not be a lucky year for sales if this continues.

[bluebold]

It seems that supply of the 30-series isnt that great in China.

 

https://wccftech.com/nvidia-partners-sold-less-than-1000-geforce-rtx-3080-graphics-cards-in-china-october/

 

There is global supply problem with the cards.

 

Also i would love the see other big european retailer numbers of their card sales and orders, but ProShop is only one i have seen with those numbers.

Even if it isnt that big retailer.

 

Edit.

For me all this just shows many people are coming from 10-series cards or older. 

Edited October 26, 2020 by bluebold
added comment.

[bluebold]

Found some number of UK Scan Computers LTD:

https://www.scan.co.uk/shops/nvidia/rtx-30-series-faqs

 

3080

total outstanding pre-orders 3463

arrived and shipped 302 (some delayed)

expected 305

 

3090

total outstanding pre-orders 808

arrived and shipped 199 (some delayed)

expected 105

 

[Tan3l6]

I am counting on AMD to do better. I doubt RTX 3070 will have significantly better numbers, especially considering the pric/performance sweet-spot.