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2GHz Infinity Fabric on Ryzen 5000 series CPUs

Based on information from WCCF and PCgamer, it's looking like AMD's next gen CPUs will be even better than leaked benchmarks suggested. It seems the new infinity fabric and memory controller can handle higher speeds than the 3000 series wile maintaining the 1:1 RAM IF clock relationship.

 

Going from a current sweet spot of 3600Mhz DDR4 up to 4000Mhz DDR4 while maintaining 1:1 relationship with infinity fabric, could yield around 10% extra performance since infinity fabric clock has been shown to scale almost directly with CPU performance. If we take the IPC and clock speed improvements into account, we are potentially looking at a 25% performance increase vs 3000 series. 

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Summary

 5000 Series AMD CPUs might be even faster than expected thanks to improvements in the memory contorller and inifnity fabric

 

Quotes

Quote

A leak slide purported to be from AMD hints at faster memory support with AMD Ryzen 5000 processors. It details a new standard for the so-called sweet spot of memory performance, DDR4-4000, which will see AMD Ryzen gaming PCs thirst for even faster memory with the coming generation.

AMD Ryzen CPUs tend to be very responsive to faster memory, much more so than Intel's comparable processors...The leaked slides from 
Technopat (via WCCFTech) suggests that AMD Ryzen 5000 chips will be able to run DDR4-4000 memory while remaining in the sweet spot for high-speed, low-latency performance.

 

My thoughts

None of this is for sure yet, we have to wait for 3rd party benchmarks and reviews. However it certainly does look like AMD have got a massive upgrade in store for us. If the rumored gains in performance pan out, I don't mind one bit that AMD decided to increase their pricing slightly. Even at that higher price point I expect that AMD chips will be in very high demand during november-december. 

 

Sources

 https://www.pcgamer.com/amd-ryzen-5000-cpus-may-run-best-with-faster-ddr4-4000-memory/
https://wccftech.com/amds-ryzen-5000-zen-3-desktop-cpus-memory-overclocking-ddr4-4000-mhz-sweet-spot/

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I got a suspicion that was already factored in and might be being counted twice.  As always, independent reviews will tell.

Life is like a bowl of chocolates: there are all these little crinkly paper cups everywhere.

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we shall see, would be sweet but I don't have my hopes up since they already confirmed that the memory controller and the I/O die are the same... nothing was said about the substrate though so if they improved it we may still get better IF clocks.

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According to the alleged leaked slide,

Quote

DDR4-4000 is to Ryzen 5000 Series as DDR4-3800 was to AMD Ryzen 3000 Series - good luck!

3800 wasn't exactly the "sweet spot" for Zen 2, but rather 3600.

Only a select few chips managed to hit 1900MHz on the FCLK, to make running 3800MHz(MT/s) viable on the memory. Granted 1900MHz FCLK has gotten more common on more recent batches of Zen 2 CPUs, but still.

 

So,

20 minutes ago, Juanitology said:

Going from a current sweet spot of 3600Mhz DDR4 up to 4000Mhz DDR4

the "sweet spot" would probably be 3800, if we're to go by Zen 2 and also by the "good luck!" in the slide. Really though, 3600 XMP kits will still be the way to go (for people that aren't interested in manual overclocking), at least going by current prices.

 

20 minutes ago, Juanitology said:

It seems the new infinity fabric and memory controller

The IMC (and also IO die) on Zen 3 will be the exact same as they were on Zen 2.

 

20 minutes ago, Juanitology said:

If we take the IPC and clock speed improvements into account, we are potentially looking at a 25% performance increase vs 3000 series.

I don't recall seeing 25% increases in performance in these new SKUs over their predecessors in AMD's reveal event, where all those numbers are already way glorified, as is the case with most of these events.

Wait for reviews.

 

20 minutes ago, Juanitology said:

AMD Ryzen CPUs tend to be very responsive to faster memory, much more so than Intel's comparable processors...

Faster as in lower latency..? Because if we're talking strictly about frequency, afaik Intel scales much better with freq than Ryzen.

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IF doesn't scale that well with performance and the main cases where it did - trying to get to the cache on the other CCX no longer matters. 

 

This will be nice but it won't change the name of the game. At this time CPU clock speed is king, then not having bad memory, then having great memory (many ranks, tight timings, good clocks). 

 

It's the last thing in the heirarchy and diminishing returns kick in quickly. 

 

----

 

As it stands zen3 recycles the same iod and the benefit to ocing RAM is so small that I'm not even bothering to push my own RAM speed. 

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46 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

I got a suspicion that was already factored in and might be being counted twice.  As always, independent reviews will tell.

The official benchmarks comparing 5000 series to 3000 series were run with all other system specs being the same, so they wouldn't have used higher clocked RAM and taken advantage of that higher infinity fabric clock.

 

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4 minutes ago, Juanitology said:

The official benchmarks comparing 5000 series to 3000 series were run with all other system specs being the same, so they wouldn't have used higher clocked RAM and taken advantage of that higher infinity fabric clock.

 

They haven’t been released yet.  Anything “official” is manufacturers claims. 

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I purchased a high speed kit in the hopes this is true, if not it does 3600 CL 14 so meh. Guessing it would 3800 CL16 happily.

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47 minutes ago, Mateyyy said:

According to the alleged leaked slide,

3800 wasn't exactly the "sweet spot" for Zen 2, but rather 3600.

Only a select few chips managed to hit 1900MHz on the FCLK, to make running 3800MHz(MT/s) viable on the memory. Granted 1900MHz FCLK has gotten more common on more recent batches of Zen 2 CPUs, but still.

 

So,

the "sweet spot" would probably be 3800, if we're to go by Zen 2 and also by the "good luck!" in the slide. Really though, 3600 XMP kits will still be the way to go (for people that aren't interested in manual overclocking), at least going by current prices.

 

The IMC (and also IO die) on Zen 3 will be the exact same as they were on Zen 2.

 

I don't recall seeing 25% increases in performance in these new SKUs over their predecessors in AMD's reveal event, where all those numbers are already way glorified, as is the case with most of these events.

Wait for reviews.

 

Faster as in lower latency..? Because if we're talking strictly about frequency, afaik Intel scales much better with freq than Ryzen.

Yeah idk why you spend so much extra on ram when 3600 is relatively cheap and gets you really good performance. If you can find high clocked memory for a reasonable price then I guess it would make sense but otherwise it seems like this doesn't change anything for most people. 

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I’m calling “fake” on this one. 3800MHz was not the sweet spot on Zen 2 according to AMD’s own published info, not all Zen 2 chips can even fclk that high. The “good luck” at the end is a huge tell as well, AMD has never made weird little comments like that in past slide decks. Too many inconsistencies for something supposedly “official.”

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13 minutes ago, FaxedForward said:

I’m calling “fake” on this one. 3800MHz was not the sweet spot on Zen 2 according to AMD’s own published info, not all Zen 2 chips can even fclk that high. The “good luck” at the end is a huge tell as well, AMD has never made weird little comments like that in past slide decks. Too many inconsistencies for something supposedly “official.”

I’m remembering 3733 as the absolute max for 1/1 myself. 3600 cas16 was called a “sweet spot” when the 3700x first came out. I understand there was some minor ability to increase this a bit so it could be 3800 when pushed as far as possible, or it could have been a typo.  In any case it needs to get verified independently. 

Life is like a bowl of chocolates: there are all these little crinkly paper cups everywhere.

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1 hour ago, Bombastinator said:

I’m remembering 3733 as the absolute max for 1/1 myself. 3600 cas16 was called a “sweet spot” when the 3700x first came out. I understand there was some minor ability to increase this a bit so it could be 3800 when pushed as far as possible, or it could have been a typo.  In any case it needs to get verified independently. 

The latter Zen 2 chips that came out in Q2-Q3 2020 including the refreshes were noticeably better at handling high speed ram. Might be due to process maturity, who knows, but they did fare better than the first Zen 2 chips that came out last year. 

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I can feel all the videos builzoid is going to make if 5000 can clock the mem controller and infinty fabric to 2ghz

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3733 is the sweet spot for 2nd gen, I'm running it right now with a 3800X. what's the real difference with 3800? none, 66 MHz aren't a game changer anymore.

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10 hours ago, Bombastinator said:

I got a suspicion that was already factored in and might be being counted twice.  As always, independent reviews will tell.

 

Outside of the 5900x and 5950x it probably won;t even be relevant. he main reason the infinity fabric speed was so big on zen 2 in terms of boosting performance was entierly down to the way it reduced cross talk latency between CCX's. The 8 core and lower parts on Zen 3 are all one CCX now so thats not even an issue, (not to mention a larger effective cache in many scenarios), so the benefits of IF speed are going to be severely muted on those. The 12 and 16 cores parts will still care, but even there i expect the increased CCX size and effective cache are going to significantly cutdown on that.

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We'll see how the speeds scale and where's that cutoff but always good higher speed memory getting leveraged. 

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22 hours ago, Mateyyy said:

3800 wasn't exactly the "sweet spot" for Zen 2, but rather 3600.

And I wondered if I was the only one that noticed that. The slide thar leaked was more confusing than informative. 

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  • 1 month later...

I've got a TUF Gaming x570, 3600, running with the cheapest ripjaws d-die 3600 16-19-19 ram, with 1usmus tightened timings, running @ 16-19-19  with 1900 fabric, 3800 flawlessly, further confirmed by around a 67ns latency.

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