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Grey-market/unactivated software - in particular Windows - who pays?

To all you people who advise downloading the free installer for proprietary software (particuarly Windows) and then never activating it, or snapping up keys leaked from volume licenses online... people who think they are entitled to install macOS on a PC, without spending a penny...  and people who use other dubious means of obtaining their software... there is a problem.

 

Who pays?

 

Regardless of whether you pay or not, and regardless of how annoying the software is, the developers, designers and distributors have to be paid, and the company has to pay its overhead costs.

Imagine if everyone suddenly stopped buying software legally. That software would stop being maintained, and would fade into obscurity, as an unloved relic. So why should you be allowed to get it for free or cheaply?

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pythonmegapixel

into tech, public transport and architecture // amateur programmer // youtuber // beginner photographer

Thanks for reading all this by the way!

By the way, my desktop is a docked laptop. Get over it, No seriously, I have an exterrnal monitor, keyboard, mouse, headset, ethernet and cooling fans all connected. Using it feels no different to a desktop, it works for several hours if the power goes out, and disconnecting just a few cables gives me something I can take on the go. There's enough power for all games I play and it even copes with basic (and some not-so-basic) video editing. Give it a go - you might just love it.

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Well in the case of Windows, MS collects data from each machine so they can sell some of it. That’s why they allow running unactivated Windows, because regardless they are making money. This is also why many pieces of software moved to a subscription model. This is also why bull shit DRM exists. In the hopes they can at least slow down the pirates. 

I just want to sit back and watch the world burn. 

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13 minutes ago, pythonmegapixel said:

To all you people who advise downloading the free installer for proprietary software (particuarly Windows) and then never activating it, or snapping up keys leaked from volume licenses online... people who think they are entitled to install macOS on a PC, without spending a penny...  and people who use other dubious means of obtaining their software... there is a problem.

 

Who pays?

 

Regardless of whether you pay or not, and regardless of how annoying the software is, the developers, designers and distributors have to be paid, and the company has to pay its overhead costs.

Imagine if everyone suddenly stopped buying software legally. That software would stop being maintained, and would fade into obscurity, as an unloved relic. So why should you be allowed to get it for free or cheaply?

In the case of Windows, it's not their primary source of income. It's a side-venture compared to their main income streams.

 

The licenses being sold are being done so legally. The seller pays for the "Full Works" MSDN sub. This allows them to generate keys at will. Thanks to Germany mostly, it is legal to re-sell those keys in the EU. Doesn't matter where the buyer is.

It may also be legal in other places, like China (almost certainly).

 

It literally harms nobody. Microsoft are getting paid via the sub from the sellers. (~£4000 per year last time I checked, but that was a while ago).

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12 minutes ago, pythonmegapixel said:

So why should you be allowed to get it for free or cheaply?

Because the developer of said software allows it. It's the dev's decision to allow for it or not and if the dev allows for the option, there's nothing wrong in using said option.

Hand, n. A singular instrument worn at the end of the human arm and commonly thrust into somebody’s pocket.

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2 minutes ago, WereCatf said:

Because the developer of said software allows it. It's the dev's decision to allow for it or not and if the dev allows for the option, there's nothing wrong in using said option.

M$ makes a pittance from Windows sales to consumers, that's why it's essentially free now.

 

I should be clear though: System builders should always use OEM/OEI versions bought in the sealed packaging. I am talking about strictly personal/family and non-business use when buying re-seller keys.

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1 minute ago, TehDwonz said:

M$ makes a pittance from Windows sales to consumers, that's why it's essentially free now.

 

I should be clear though: System builders should always use OEM/OEI versions bought in the sealed packaging. I am talking about strictly personal/family and non-business use when buying re-seller keys.

I think you quoted the wrong person.

Hand, n. A singular instrument worn at the end of the human arm and commonly thrust into somebody’s pocket.

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7 minutes ago, WereCatf said:

Because the developer of said software allows it. It's the dev's decision to allow for it or not and if the dev allows for the option, there's nothing wrong in using said option.

But they don't... it's against EULA.

 

They're being nice by not building in a load of pain-in-the-arse DRM, or indeed making the existing activation service lock the PC out untii you type a key in, because they realise that this would screw over those who legitimately use the software without activation, i.e. for trial purposes.

 

It's being given an inch and taking a mile.

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pythonmegapixel

into tech, public transport and architecture // amateur programmer // youtuber // beginner photographer

Thanks for reading all this by the way!

By the way, my desktop is a docked laptop. Get over it, No seriously, I have an exterrnal monitor, keyboard, mouse, headset, ethernet and cooling fans all connected. Using it feels no different to a desktop, it works for several hours if the power goes out, and disconnecting just a few cables gives me something I can take on the go. There's enough power for all games I play and it even copes with basic (and some not-so-basic) video editing. Give it a go - you might just love it.

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2 minutes ago, WereCatf said:

I think you quoted the wrong person.

Nah, just a way to reply to the thread. Only part aimed at you :)  I missed off "Yes, I agree" from the first sentence.

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2 minutes ago, pythonmegapixel said:

But they don't... it's against EULA.

EULAs aren't Law. See my previous reply. $10 windows keys are legal.

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Just now, pythonmegapixel said:

But they don't... it's against EULA.

I assume you're specifically talking about Windows. The thread's title speaks only about software, not anything specific. If you just mean specifically Windows, then you should amend the title, IMO.

Hand, n. A singular instrument worn at the end of the human arm and commonly thrust into somebody’s pocket.

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Just now, TehDwonz said:

EULAs aren't Law.

I never said they were.

However, what Microsoft permits, and what the law permits, are different things... even if Microsoft's rules are not law, they are still Microsoft's rules.

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____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

pythonmegapixel

into tech, public transport and architecture // amateur programmer // youtuber // beginner photographer

Thanks for reading all this by the way!

By the way, my desktop is a docked laptop. Get over it, No seriously, I have an exterrnal monitor, keyboard, mouse, headset, ethernet and cooling fans all connected. Using it feels no different to a desktop, it works for several hours if the power goes out, and disconnecting just a few cables gives me something I can take on the go. There's enough power for all games I play and it even copes with basic (and some not-so-basic) video editing. Give it a go - you might just love it.

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Quote

, or snapping up keys leaked from volume licenses online... 

Thats... Not illegal... 

 

Falls under 'used' software... 

 

As long Microsoft doesn't start suing people (which would likely have massive financial and otherwise consequences *for*  Microsoft) you don't really have a foot to stand on. 

 

Different country rules may apply, strictly speaking from an EU perspective here. 

 

The direction tells you... the direction

-Scott Manley, 2021

 

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Just now, pythonmegapixel said:

I never said they were.

However, what Microsoft permits, and what the law permits, are different things... even if Microsoft's rules are not law, they are still Microsoft's rules.

You're coming across as a concern-troll now. It's legal, and as long as you enter "a key that's valid" you aren't even breaching the EULA, for Windows. The Law, allows the re-sale of keys. Ergo, nothing wrong with it.

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1 minute ago, Mark Kaine said:

Thats... Not illegal... 

 

Falls under 'used' software... 

 

As long Microsoft doesn't start suing people (which would likely have massive financial and otherwise consequences *for*  Microsoft) you don't really have a foot to stand on.

 

Just now, TehDwonz said:

You're coming across as a concern-troll now. It's legal, and as long as you enter "a key that's valid" you aren't even breaching the EULA, for Windows. The Law, allows the re-sale of keys. Ergo, nothing wrong with it.

What does that have to do with it?

 

This thread does not ask about legality. It asks who you expect will pay for the development of the software.

____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

 

 

____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

pythonmegapixel

into tech, public transport and architecture // amateur programmer // youtuber // beginner photographer

Thanks for reading all this by the way!

By the way, my desktop is a docked laptop. Get over it, No seriously, I have an exterrnal monitor, keyboard, mouse, headset, ethernet and cooling fans all connected. Using it feels no different to a desktop, it works for several hours if the power goes out, and disconnecting just a few cables gives me something I can take on the go. There's enough power for all games I play and it even copes with basic (and some not-so-basic) video editing. Give it a go - you might just love it.

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1 minute ago, TehDwonz said:

EULAs aren't Law.

It kind of depends on the country one lives in. Over here in Finland, for example, a EULA can only grant you rights that you wouldn't otherwise have, like e.g. rights regarding copyrights or trademarks wrt. the software. A EULA can't remove rights you already have and thus whatever it says just falls under the topic of morals -- it's up to you to define whether it's right or wrong to follow or disregard the clauses in it.

Hand, n. A singular instrument worn at the end of the human arm and commonly thrust into somebody’s pocket.

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Just now, pythonmegapixel said:

This thread does not ask about legality. It asks who you expect will pay for the development of the software.

The re-sellers who pay ~£4000/year to generate keys to sell. That aside, Windows is not even a blip on M$'s income - their other streams pay for Windows, literally.

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3 minutes ago, pythonmegapixel said:

I never said they were.

However, what Microsoft permits, and what the law permits, are different things... even if Microsoft's rules are not law, they are still Microsoft's rules.

im making a new rule, you have to transfer all your money to me. you have to listen its my rule now..

MSI GX660 + i7 920XM @ 2.8GHz + GTX 970M + Samsung SSD 830 256GB

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microsoft could make it extremely hard to pirate windows 10.

They don't do it for several reasons

1. they made windows 7 too good and had to force people to go to windows 10, to make money from data collection and advertising. - see how you can still activate windows 10 using your windows 7 keys (i think), how you were able to claim you have a handicap to upgrade from windows 7 to windows 10 for free (see https://www.howtogeek.com/265409/you-can-still-get-windows-10-for-free-from-microsofts-accessibility-site/ ) and how it stays for more than 30 days without activation.

2. if they make the protection too god, people will either keep using windows 7 or even windows 2008 or server products which don't have so much drm, or xxx forbid, maybe people move to mac or linux and windows loses market share

3. they want windows 10 to be popular, so they can make money out of windows store (see all those windows versions which were restricted to windows store only) and advertising and data collection

4. they sell development tools and they sell software (office for example) to companies, which pay for licenses and companies pay for the licenses either directly or through buying oem computers.

 

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26 minutes ago, pythonmegapixel said:

To all you people who advise downloading the free installer for proprietary software (particuarly Windows) and then never activating it, or snapping up keys leaked from volume licenses online... people who think they are entitled to install macOS on a PC, without spending a penny...  and people who use other dubious means of obtaining their software... there is a problem.

 

Who pays?

 

Regardless of whether you pay or not, and regardless of how annoying the software is, the developers, designers and distributors have to be paid, and the company has to pay its overhead costs.

Imagine if everyone suddenly stopped buying software legally. That software would stop being maintained, and would fade into obscurity, as an unloved relic. So why should you be allowed to get it for free or cheaply?

For big companies don't care about it. They got money they'll figure their stuff out. For smaller companies or single man teams it's much more important but then again the scale on which people would get the software for free is smaller.

 

Really it comes down to the age old thing of piracy. People like free stuff if it's easy to do so and won't care about who it affects really especially for something like software. However the moment the legal route is a bigger convenience than the free route you'll have paying people again.

 

I know I just said the whole streaming and pirating music, videos, series,... thing here but it's the same for software.

 

People don't care. Getting software is so far away from going to a store and just taking something without paying for it. It can be as simple as literally clicking a button. That is so far away from any human interaction people don't think about it as doing something wrong because they don't see anyone immediately suffer from it.

 

Has it happened that people suddenly started mass pirating something and caused it to go out of business because of that? Yes. But what also happened then is that many other similar software got launched because of the interest of people.

 

In the end it comes down to convenience. Is it easier to use the free route/worth the time or should I pay for it/is it worth the money. The masses don't ever think about the developers of the software or the company they care about using the software nothing else.

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1 minute ago, TehDwonz said:

The re-sellers who pay ~£4000/year to generate keys to sell. That aside, Windows is not even a blip on M$'s income - their other streams pay for Windows, literally.

They're probably happy for every windows user,, activated or otherwise, even more data to harvest (illegally, allegedly) :)

The direction tells you... the direction

-Scott Manley, 2021

 

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Just now, Mark Kaine said:

They're probably happy for every windows user,, activated or otherwise, even more data to harvest (illegally, allegedly) :)

That too - Windows is merely a vessel now. The average normie running W10 Home doesn't care about or consider such things happen. They want to run the latest games, watch YouTube, talk nonsense on Facebook etc. We are a tiny minority here in "tech aware" land.

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8 minutes ago, pythonmegapixel said:

This thread does not ask about legality. It asks who you expect will pay for the development of the software.

You should have probably somehow specified this more, it seems like you're talking mostly about windows which makes this all difficult to take seriously, as what we're talking about, Microsoft still gets paid, reselling sw keys isn't illegal and shouldn't be, unless we make reselling just illegal, period. 

 

 

 

The direction tells you... the direction

-Scott Manley, 2021

 

Softwares used:

Corsair Link (Anime Edition) 

MSI Afterburner 

OpenRGB

Lively Wallpaper 

OBS Studio

Shutter Encoder

Avidemux

FSResizer

Audacity 

VLC

WMP

GIMP

HWiNFO64

Paint

3D Paint

GitHub Desktop 

Superposition 

Prime95

Aida64

GPUZ

CPUZ

Generic Logviewer

 

 

 

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Just now, Mark Kaine said:

You should have probably somehow specified this more, it seems like you're talking mostly about windows which makes this all difficult to take seriously, as what we're talking about, Microsoft still gets paid, reselling sw keys isn't illegal and shouldn't be, unless we make reselling just illegal, period. 

Being against re-selling is like being against Right to Repair, IMO. It's anti-consumer. Microsoft (and Adobe as @Sakuriru mentioned) are taking a very consumer-friendly approach. Years ago, the Adobe CEO outright said they won't go after individuals "obtaining" Photoshop, because most of them wouldn't have bought it anyway and they're just making stupid memes with it. The few that use it to become successful end up buying it anyway - so they'd rather let people "obtain" it and later become a paying customer, than potentially block someone from exploring their creativity. If they made it impossible (how?) to "obtain" PS without paying $$$, the potential future customer might go elsewhere.

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Just now, Sakuriru said:

In Adobe's case it's one of the reasons they've achieved the overwhelming marketing dominance they have.

Exactly - same for Windows really. 

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1 hour ago, pythonmegapixel said:

To all you people who advise downloading the free installer for proprietary software (particuarly Windows) and then never activating it, or snapping up keys leaked from volume licenses online... people who think they are entitled to install macOS on a PC, without spending a penny...  and people who use other dubious means of obtaining their software... there is a problem.

 

Who pays?

 

Regardless of whether you pay or not, and regardless of how annoying the software is, the developers, designers and distributors have to be paid, and the company has to pay its overhead costs.

Imagine if everyone suddenly stopped buying software legally. That software would stop being maintained, and would fade into obscurity, as an unloved relic. So why should you be allowed to get it for free or cheaply?

Microsoft collects lots of user data and they do stuff like preload Windows with Candy Crush and they can also make money from people who use Office although not everyone should use Windows unactivated by any means. I personally use Windows unactivated because I use it on my mac and might uninstall it soon anyway

My Laptop: A MacBook Air 

My Desktop: Don’t have one 

My Phone: An Honor 8s (although I don’t recommend it)

My Favourite OS: Linux

My Console: A Regular PS4

My Tablet: A Huawei Mediapad m5 

Spoiler

 

 

 

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