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You're gonna be waiting for a bit - AMD R5 5600 Rumored to arrive next year

williamcll
29 minutes ago, Lord Vile said:

Not really if you run them with Auto OC i forgot the marketing name the X chips perform better.

PBO = Precision 🅱️eans Overdrive.

Our Grace. The Feathered One. He shows us the way. His bob is majestic and shows us the path. Follow unto his guidance and His example. He knows the one true path. Our Saviour. Our Grace. Our Father Birb has taught us with His humble heart and gentle wing the way of the bob. Let us show Him our reverence and follow in His example. The True Path of the Feathered One. ~ Dimboble-dubabob III

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34 minutes ago, Lord Vile said:

X models have a higher TDP which allows them more headroom in the auto OC software. 

Not true anymore. 3600 65W, 3600X 95W, 5600X 65W. Ryzen 5000 series has different TDPs than before, careful what information you transfer over to this new generation as it might not be correct.

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13 minutes ago, Moonzy said:

actually, the TDP isnt fixed for OC

it's just stock settings afaik

 

and even then, idk how accurate it is.

 

people say 3800x is better binned than 3700x, but i would say it depends on luck

i've seen 3800x with poor OC perf

That's why you don't manually OC you just use PBO...

Dirty Windows Peasants :P ?

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7 minutes ago, leadeater said:

Not true anymore. 3600 65W, 3600X 95W, 5600X 65W. Ryzen 5000 series has different TDPs than before, careful what information you transfer over to this new generation as it might not be correct.

They were talking about the 3000 series. Since we haven't seen the 5600 we can't say if it's specced the same.

Dirty Windows Peasants :P ?

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1 minute ago, Lord Vile said:

That's why you don't manually OC you just use PBO...

never used PBO, no comment

 

but... i wouldnt use PBO personally because of how aggressive the voltages are out of the factory already

-sigh- feeling like I'm being too negative lately

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2 minutes ago, Lord Vile said:

They were talking about the 3000 series. Since we haven't seen the 5600 we can't say if it's specced the same.

Yes we can, we have the official spec. 5600X is 65W. It is not the same as the 3600X which did have a higher TDP.

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4 minutes ago, leadeater said:

Yes we can, we have the official spec. 5600X is 65W. It is not the same as the 3600X which did have a higher TDP.

But we don't know what the 5600 will be so we don't know if it would be worth getting the X over it or not. It might have a 45W tdp, it might have a different cache layout or a myriad of other things. Just look at the 3100 vs the 3300X. Both have the same amount of cores, threads, cache and TDP but the 3300X is by far the better chip.

Dirty Windows Peasants :P ?

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26 minutes ago, Lord Vile said:

it might have a different cache layout

No it won't.

 

26 minutes ago, Lord Vile said:

But we don't know what the 5600 will be

Or if it's even confirmed it will exist at all, I think it will but also the fact that the 5600X is 65W puts it in doubt. 65W was the lowest AMD did on the desktop platform that wasn't an APU before.

 

And if the 5600 is a lower TDP than the 3600 was then it's not going to increase performance enough and people will be disappointed. 

 

26 minutes ago, Lord Vile said:

Just look at the 3100 vs the 3300X

Not going to be a thing this time. 3100 and 3300X are single CCD dual CCX and the CCX usage is different on those two parts. Zen 3 is a single CCX per CCD so the difference the 3100 and 3300X had is not a possible thing this generation.

Edited by leadeater
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1 minute ago, leadeater said:

No it won't.

How do you know?

1 minute ago, leadeater said:

 

Or if it's even confirmed it will exist at all, I think it will but also the fact that the 5600X is 65W puts it in doubt. 65W was the lowest AMD did on the desktop platform that wasn't an APU before.

But they've increased efficency this time round. If the 5600x outperforms the 3600x at 65W why couldn't the 5600 outperform the 3600 at lower?

1 minute ago, leadeater said:

 

And if the 5600 is a lower TDP than the 3600 was then it's not going to increase performance enough and people will be disappointed. 

Depends on the performance gains. You're talking 20% in single threaded applications if the 5600 outperforms the old R5 chips by 10% and the X does it by 15 then what's the issue? 

1 minute ago, leadeater said:

 

Not going to be a thing this time. 3100 and 3100X are single CCD dual CCX and the CCX usage is different on those two parts. Zen 3 is a single CCX per CCD so the difference the 3100 and 3300X had is not a possible thing this generation.

But they could do something similar it was only an example.

Dirty Windows Peasants :P ?

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1 hour ago, hollyh88 said:

Yeah they do. Same goes with nvidia and everyone else. They are forcing the consumer to now pay a higher premium. Because they didnt release the lower end parts at the same time. 

1) A computer isn't a necessity for life.

2) Amd is not at your house forcing you to buy anything.

3)And there are also other options. 

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11 minutes ago, leadeater said:

3100 and 3100X are single CCD dual CCX and the CCX usage is different on those two parts.

3100: Single CCD, dual CCX (2+2)

3300X: Single CCD, single CCX (4+0)

Spoiler

https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.gamersnexus.net%2Fimages%2Fmedia%2F2020%2Famd-r3-3100%2Famd-block-diagram-3100_1.png&f=1&nofb=1

 

Our Grace. The Feathered One. He shows us the way. His bob is majestic and shows us the path. Follow unto his guidance and His example. He knows the one true path. Our Saviour. Our Grace. Our Father Birb has taught us with His humble heart and gentle wing the way of the bob. Let us show Him our reverence and follow in His example. The True Path of the Feathered One. ~ Dimboble-dubabob III

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15 minutes ago, Lord Vile said:

How do you know?

Simple, just look at the Zen 3 architecture diagram.

 

15 minutes ago, Lord Vile said:

But they've increased efficency this time round. If the 5600x outperforms the 3600x at 65W why couldn't the 5600 outperform the 3600 at lower?

Because the performance per watt increased by 20% and the IPC increased by 19%. A lower TDP part will clock lower so your average gains (which will not actually be 19% performance gain) will drop and then you might have a situation where workloads on the 5600 perform worse than the 3600, while others will be more but not much more because you've just restricted the TDP.

 

15 minutes ago, Lord Vile said:

Depends on the performance gains. You're talking 20% in single threaded applications if the 5600 outperforms the old R5 chips by 10% and the X does it by 15 then what's the issue? 

Because it's not actually going to be 20% more single thread across multiple workload average, so see comment above this one.

 

15 minutes ago, Lord Vile said:

But they could do something similar it was only an example.

No they can't actually do something similar, Zen 3 architecture doesn't allow for such a thing. AMD is not going to do a dual CCD part for a 6 core CPU, you wouldn't want to pay the price for that and it would be worse than a single CCD.

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3 minutes ago, DildorTheDecent said:

3100: Single CCD, dual CCX (2+2)

3300X: Single CCD, single CCX (4+0)

Yes that is what I said, other than putting 1 instead of a 3 for the X part. But you could have also looked at the line just below it where it was correct 😉

 

Both CCXs are still present in both, one is disabled yes but that is the difference I was talking about.

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Yeah same as aways, makes sense for more SKUs to come later. Binning and all. 

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2 hours ago, Blue4130 said:

1) A computer isn't a necessity for life.

2) Amd is not at your house forcing you to buy anything.

3)And there are also other options. 

Ah yes. Because someone has to hold a weapon against your head to force something. 🤦‍♂️ you really dont seem to get it do you?

 

If anyone wants to buy a new processor now. Because of a build or an upgrade they are forced to either wait several months for a "lower" end part like the 5600 or 5700x. Or be forced to buy the "higher" end 5600x or 5800x now. They force a user to do either of the 2. But because many simply cant wait they now have to pay hefty premiums for these "higher" end parts. 

 

And amd knows they are doing this. They do this on purpose because they saw how the last gen went. With the 3600 and 3600x and the 3700x and 3800x. 

 

That you simply cannot see this is hilarious to me. They are forcing buyers to spend more now on the higher end parts or wait. And it's not a simple few weeks waiting no its 4 months or more who knows. 🤷🏻‍♂️ 

Because they know that the 5600 and 5700x will probably be the same as their counterparts unless they reduce their performance on purpose. Which I expect they didnt do. Which is why they probably opted to releasing them waaay later. So people will buy the expensive ones now. 

 

And you just dont want to accept this huh? There are many different forms of forcing something onto someone. This is one of them. Whether you want to accept it or not. It is like so. 

PC: 
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2 hours ago, leadeater said:

Simple, just look at the Zen 3 architecture diagram.

There's a different amount of cache on every Zen 3 chip released.

2 hours ago, leadeater said:

 

Because the performance per watt increased by 20% and the IPC increased by 19%. A lower TDP part will clock lower so your average gains (which will not actually be 19% performance gain) will drop and then you might have a situation where workloads on the 5600 perform worse than the 3600, while others will be more but not much more because you've just restricted the TDP.

Average for gaming is a 25% improvement over last gen on the R9 line. Also the 5600X has a lower baseclock than the 3600X. You could easily tune that to have the 5600 have a middle ground between the 5600X and the 3600X.

2 hours ago, leadeater said:

 

Because it's not actually going to be 20% more single thread across multiple workload average, so see comment above this one.

We won't know until actual testing has happened but AMDs average for games is 25% with the heavily single thread dependant ones like CSGO showing a 46% improvement.

2 hours ago, leadeater said:

 

No they can't actually do something similar, Zen 3 architecture doesn't allow for such a thing. AMD is not going to do a dual CCD part for a 6 core CPU, you wouldn't want to pay the price for that and it would be worse than a single CCD.

Talk about answering the question you want rather than what's asked. Obviously they're not going to do the exact same thing because they can't but there's plenty of ways to cut down an architecture.

Dirty Windows Peasants :P ?

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6 hours ago, Lord Vile said:

There's a different amount of cache on every Zen 3 chip released.

Yes because each core is paired with it's own L2 cache and AMD totals together the total L2 and L3 cache on their spec. All SKUs with a a single CCD have the same L3 cache amount (currently) and L2 cache based on the number of cores. There is no difference in cache layout, structure or function and that will not change even if AMD release a SKU with half the L3 cache disabled, architecturally disabling cache does not change it in a way that would alter the performance other than simply having less change. This is not the same as with the 3100 and 3300X which the cache is split between CCXs and cross CCX communication has to go across the IF to the IOD and back, this is completely gone with Zen 3.

 

This is why the 5600X and 5800X both have 32MB of L3 cache, they are both single CCD, and the 5900X and 5950X are 64MB L3 cache, they are both dual CCD.

 

6 hours ago, Lord Vile said:

Average for gaming is a 25% improvement over last gen on the R9 line. Also the 5600X has a lower baseclock than the 3600X. You could easily tune that to have the 5600 have a middle ground between the 5600X and the 3600X.

No, a few games were that high and higher but the average will not be 25% so you will find when actual reviews come out that cover more games the average is likely going to be more in the 10% to 20%. AMD showed us as much as they wanted to show but on such a limited list of games two that are near 50% while the rest are far lower and some very low, as many games will also be, that pushes the average up much higher than what it's going to be.

 

6 hours ago, Lord Vile said:

We won't know until actual testing has happened but AMDs average for games is 25% with the heavily single thread dependant ones like CSGO showing a 46% improvement.

See above, proof only comes from independent testing not release marketing slides from a company that A) Does not do professional independent reviews and B) Has a vested interest in making the product look as best as possible.

 

6 hours ago, Lord Vile said:

Talk about answering the question you want rather than what's asked. Obviously they're not going to do the exact same thing because they can't but there's plenty of ways to cut down an architecture.

No, literally no. If you understood and looked at the architecture the reference difference you were point to is 100% literally impossible in Zen 3. Anything similar to that is now absolutely 100% not possible.

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6 hours ago, hollyh88 said:

Ah yes. Because someone has to hold a weapon against your head to force something. 🤦‍♂️ you really dont seem to get it do you?

 

If anyone wants to buy a new processor now. Because of a build or an upgrade they are forced to either wait several months for a "lower" end part like the 5600 or 5700x. Or be forced to buy the "higher" end 5600x or 5800x now. They force a user to do either of the 2. But because many simply cant wait they now have to pay hefty premiums for these "higher" end parts. 

 

And amd knows they are doing this. They do this on purpose because they saw how the last gen went. With the 3600 and 3600x and the 3700x and 3800x. 

 

That you simply cannot see this is hilarious to me. They are forcing buyers to spend more now on the higher end parts or wait. And it's not a simple few weeks waiting no its 4 months or more who knows. 🤷🏻‍♂️ 

Because they know that the 5600 and 5700x will probably be the same as their counterparts unless they reduce their performance on purpose. Which I expect they didnt do. Which is why they probably opted to releasing them waaay later. So people will buy the expensive ones now. 

 

And you just dont want to accept this huh? There are many different forms of forcing something onto someone. This is one of them. Whether you want to accept it or not. It is like so. 

You seem to not know the definition of the verb force... 

 

And you seem to be missing my key point, the option of doing nothing or the option of choosing a different brand. If you don't like amd's business practices, you have the options to not buy their products. 

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