Apple finally enters 5G - iPhone 12 + homePod mini announcement

[niofalpha]

I've got 6 months left till I can upgrade from my XS, I'm not rushing to upgrade.

 

Probably just going to wait for the refresh.

[Monkey Dust]

7 hours ago, RejZoR said:

It's not about who can afford what. It's about marketing it as a move for ecology and reduction of "e-waste" and then you force almost everyone to either buy a different cable or extra different charger coz you don't have one with USB-C output...

Some stuff needs more power than USB-A can supply, like fast charging phones or the Switch. We'll have stuff that charges off USB-A for years yet, there is no reason to chuck your USB-A charger.  

[RejZoR]

8 hours ago, Monkey Dust said:

Some stuff needs more power than USB-A can supply, like fast charging phones or the Switch. We'll have stuff that charges off USB-A for years yet, there is no reason to chuck your USB-A charger.  

Yeah, but I need to buy a new one to charge this. Or new cable. I happen to have one, but if you don't? Also I don't know why would connector type define current throughput. USB-A or USB-C, electricity doesn't know the shape of it and I very much doubt the wires in USB-A have such tiny tolerances that it couldn't handle 15W (that would be 3A at 5V).

[GoodBytes]

I think this video sums up the news on the charger:

 

So next year, they'll release a new charger with the updated iPhone to allow faster 40W charging, like pretty much any other....

What am I talking about.. no! They'll release a 30W next year, then the following year 35W, and then 40W! Because that is the "environmentally friendly way of doing things". Why release the best, when you can trickle out features because you are out of ideas?

[Dracarris]

On 10/15/2020 at 2:44 PM, Whiskers said:

It's a fair point, and for me personally it's true, I could just use the Lightning to USB A cables I already have. But then the bundled Lightning to USB C cable is ewaste, and is so for everyone who would need to rely on their USB A cables.

 

No. Not at all. Sooner or later, everyone and their dog will have a USB-C wall charger, and then these cables can be used. People here are acting like type C is an Apple-only thing. Jesus Christ guys, it is the new industry standard! More and more devices are moving to it, and I am shocked a tech-affine community like this one is so critical when it comes to type C. At some point everyone has to move. Until then, use your existing type-A cables and the included type-C cable to connect to your laptop, where basically any recent one has at least one type-C connector. Btw: The Airpod Pro also come without a charger and a type-C cable. For me a nice addition to my cable-collection, now I can also connect my iPhone to any laptop without adapter/dock. Apple has a long history of pushing people to new standards, not always in a very consumer-friendly way though.

[Dracarris]

On 10/16/2020 at 3:35 PM, GoodBytes said:

Except if your device has anything, Apple will void the warranty for not using Apple genuine charger and cable.

Sorry, I do not expect such an unqualified comment, lacking any evidence or facts, from a moderator.

[Helpful Tech Witch]

1 hour ago, Dracarris said:

Sorry, I do not expect such an unqualified comment, lacking any evidence or facts, from a moderator.

1: stop fanboying

2: realize that they already do petty crap with warranty’s. 
 

scource: I just sent my iPhone 8 in for a screen repair. I noted the small peice missing, but they still denied the request because of the small scratch on the corner of the metal body.

 

 

[GoodBytes]

2 hours ago, Dracarris said:

Sorry, I do not expect such an unqualified comment, lacking any evidence or facts, from a moderator.

The terms and condition, says that the warranty is void is you don't use the device as Apple intended.

 

Quote

4. What is not Covered?
[....]
(b) Damage caused by (a) a product that is not the Covered Equipment (b) accident, abuse, misuse, liquid contact, fire, earthquake or other external cause, (c) operating the Covered Equipment outside the permitted or intended uses described by the manufacturer

In the manual of the iPhone, nowhere it says to connect your phone with a non-authorized/certified charger beside their own Apple charger. So, using a third-party charger means you are not using the device in a way that was intended and described by the manufacture, and so can be denied repaired.

 

https://www.apple.com/legal/sales-support/applecare/appmacnaen.html

 

[Dracarris]

1 hour ago, GoodBytes said:

The terms and condition, says that the warranty is void is you don't use the device as Apple intended.

 

In the manual of the iPhone, nowhere it says to connect your phone with a non-authorized/certified charger beside their own Apple charger. So, using a third-party charger means you are not using the device in a way that was intended and described by the manufacture, and so can be denied repaired.

 

https://www.apple.com/legal/sales-support/applecare/appmacnaen.html

 

I have no clue how those T&Cs would exclude a third-party charger. It is beyond me how you arrive at the conclusion that a third-party charger cannot be used, just because its usage is not explicitly permitted. If non-Apple chargers would be explicitly excluded, it would be another story. This is however not the case. Apple does not certify or authorize chargers nor sees only its own chargers as legit. Apple does not exclude third-party accessoires. Apple however does sell third-party accessoires even in their own stores.

 

Quote

So, using a third-party charger means you are not using the device in a way that was intended and described by the manufacture

That very conclusion is simply incorrect.

 

Besides the fact that Apple cannot prove which charger you used, unless you use a super cheap-ass charger, nothing will happen. If you think you want to cheap out on a charger to save 5 bucks that will then send massive over-voltage to the device, I do not think the consequences should be Apple's bussiness.

 

Unless you can link me at least a few cases where Apple denied a repair due to a (proper, e.g., Anker, Belkin) third-party charger, I am staying with my conclusion that you are jumping on the (at this point, very lame) Apple-bash train. As others have already pointed out, such practice would additionally be against the law.

[Dracarris]

2 hours ago, HelpfulTechWizard said:

1: stop fanboying

2: realize that they already do petty crap with warranty’s. 
 

scource: I just sent my iPhone 8 in for a screen repair. I noted the small peice missing, but they still denied the request because of the small scratch on the corner of the metal body.

 

 

I don't see how what I am doing is fanboying. I simply cannot stand it if people put out haltless accusations for the sake of hating against a certain company. If a company does something bad and you have proof or experience for it, show it. I am not saying that Apple does a good job regarding repairs. Putting out false examples however weakens the overall argument against such practice. Simply because they are doing thing a) bad in regards to repairs, does not mean they will do all repair-related things badly.

[AndreiArgeanu]

Frankly enough I don't see why anyone should really care about Apple removing the charger from their iPhone since they were never that good to start with. Like, do you seriously need that slow af 5W charger that charges your phone in 3 hours? If it was a good, fast charger like the one included with the iPhone 11 Pro, then yes sure, it's worth complaining about.

[GoodBytes]

35 minutes ago, Dracarris said:

I have no clue how those T&Cs would exclude a third-party charger. It is beyond me how you arrive at the conclusion that a third-party charger cannot be used, just because its usage is not explicitly permitted. If non-Apple chargers would be explicitly excluded, it would be another story. This is however not the case. Apple does not certify or authorize chargers nor sees only its own chargers as legit. Apple does not exclude third-party accessoires. Apple however does sell third-party accessoires even in their own stores.

 

That very conclusion is simply incorrect.

 

Besides the fact that Apple cannot prove which charger you used, unless you use a super cheap-ass charger, nothing will happen. If you think you want to cheap out on a charger to save 5 bucks that will then send massive over-voltage to the device, I do not think the consequences should be Apple's bussiness.

 

Unless you can link me at least a few cases where Apple denied a repair due to a (proper, e.g., Anker, Belkin) third-party charger, I am staying with my conclusion that you are jumping on the (at this point, very lame) Apple-bash train. As others have already pointed out, such practice would additionally be against the law.

You know that lying for a warranty claim is considered a crime, at least in US and Canada.

But regardless, if you have to lie to get your device fixed, then there is a problem. It isn't a solution.

 

 

Also, technically they can add something to detect this. You forgot that a USB charger follows a communication protocol to establish a connection to allow more than the base power to be sent. So, Apple, might continue to allow charging power to the power and phone abilities, but they can add a new call, for the charger to get, say, its serial number. It can log in, say, the last 100 chargers used, consuming less than 1KB of memory, and use that to know if you used an Apple charger to know. Apple charger will return its S/N which it can validate, other won't as it won't know the call it is getting, and know that you used a non-Apple certified. Sounds crazy? Sure, but Apple has been doing it to prevent unauthorized repaired of its devices in the name of "security".

[Helpful Tech Witch]

35 minutes ago, Dracarris said:

I don't see how what I am doing is fanboying. I simply cannot stand it if people put out haltless accusations for the sake of hating against a certain company. If a company does something bad and you have proof or experience for it, show it. I am not saying that Apple does a good job regarding repairs. Putting out false examples however weakens the overall argument against such practice. Simply because they are doing thing a) bad in regards to repairs, does not mean they will do all repair-related things badly.

they can literaly do what eer they want, if they deam it not how they intended for it to be used. 

[Whiskers]

5 hours ago, Dracarris said:

No. Not at all. Sooner or later, everyone and their dog will have a USB-C wall charger, and then these cables can be used. People here are acting like type C is an Apple-only thing. Jesus Christ guys, it is the new industry standard! More and more devices are moving to it, and I am shocked a tech-affine community like this one is so critical when it comes to type C. At some point everyone has to move. Until then, use your existing type-A cables and the included type-C cable to connect to your laptop, where basically any recent one has at least one type-C connector.

 

Yes, and the move towards USB C would have gotten along a good bit faster if Apple hadn't stubbornly stuck with Lightning all this time just so they can keep making money from their ridiculous and frankly greedy license fee.

 

I've no problem with them moving to Type C, in fact my criticism is largely that they've taken far too long to do it. They've done it far too slowly, have (intentionally) badly timed their move to omit the charger, and have made a big marketing point about how they're working to eliminate easte - whilst employing contradictory policies which actually produce or result in a lot of unnecessary ewaste (not to mention their repair and reuse policies and their unnecessary environmental impact).

[GoodBytes]

Well this is a surprise. Apple has secretly changed the accessories of the iPhone SE 2020 model. It used to come with (see YouTube unboxing videos):

• Apple earphones
• USB charger
• USB Type-A to Lightning cable

Now:

• USB Type-C to Lightning cable

That is all. There is space for the Apple earphones in the box, I believe, but they are not there... they put cardboard with paper cards and Apple sticker.

 

This is a big problem, as my mother who just got that phone, doesn't have a charger at all to charge her new phone.... I only have 1... which I use for my Android Pixel 3a, that came with it. It is my only one.

 

Also, well.. the price of the phone didn't change, so the value is now LESS as you don't even have the earphones. She has none either, and it was calculated, with her tight budget to have them inside. There was no notification of this change.

 

So now she needs to cash out $50! to get them

This mean the phone is now $50 more expensive than expected. Holy crap.... now the SE is really not a good deal.

[BlueChinchillaEatingDorito]

5 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

Well this is a surprise. Apple has secretly changed the accessories of the iPhone SE 2020 model. It used to come with (see YouTube unboxing videos):

• Apple earphones
• USB charger
• USB Type-A to Lightning cable

Now:

• USB Type-C to Lightning cable

That is all. There is space for the Apple earphones in the box, I believe, but they are not there... they put cardboard with paper cards and Apple sticker.

 

This is a big problem, as my mother who just got that phone, doesn't have a charger at all to charge her new phone.... 

Also, well.. the price of the phone didn't change, so the value is now LESS as you don't even have the earphones. She has none either.

 

Now that's something I would get annoyed by. Especially since the SE is not a device current say iPhone 11 buyers or even iPhone X(s) buyers would be upgrading to. The clientele for this device would not have a Type-C charger on hand. In fact, they might not even have lightning earphones or the lightning to 3.5mm adapter. 

[GoodBytes]

12 minutes ago, BlueChinchillaEatingDorito said:

Now that's something I would get annoyed by. Especially since the SE is not a device current say iPhone 11 buyers or even iPhone X(s) buyers would be upgrading to. The clientele for this device would not have a Type-C charger on hand. In fact, they might not even have lightning earphones or the lightning to 3.5mm adapter. 

Correct. This is a budget phone... my mother previous phone is the Motorola G 2nd gen. A 2014 phone. There is nothing from the old phone that she can use now. And I don't switch phone every year... I am on 4 years cycle. So, I don't have a drawer of power adapter. I have 1. That is all.

 

Like it's one thing if this is for new phones starting today.... I mean you know what you expect. But here, it isn't the case. I expected the headphone and charger... You have all these unboxing videos, and there is 0 notification of changes on Apple website, nor saying the accessories it comes with (so you have to rely on those unboxing videos), and surprise! You don't! And again, this is a budget phone, the target customers, are those who are limited in budget. 50$ is a lot. Now you jump to another, possibly, better phone...

 

And looking at the packaging from the unboxing and new I see more unrecyclable materials. On top of that, add the box for both accessories, and shipping environmental cost, and now, it is obvious it pollutes more. So, for those who are defending Apple... I am sorry, this is shit! You guys defending Apple have 0 argument.

 

[HenrySalayne]

37 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

Like it's one thing if this is for new phones starting today.... I mean you know what you expect. But here, it isn't the case. I expected the headphone and charger... You have all these unboxing videos, and there is 0 notification of changes on Apple website, nor saying the accessories it comes with (so you have to rely on those unboxing videos), and surprise! You don't

 

[RejZoR]

"environmental goals" make me cringe so hard. This whole thing was done SOLELY for profits.

[BlueChinchillaEatingDorito]

1 hour ago, GoodBytes said:

Correct. This is a budget phone... my mother previous phone is the Motorola G 2nd gen. A 2014 phone. There is nothing from the old phone that she can use now. And I don't switch phone every year... I am on 4 years cycle. So, I don't have a drawer of power adapter. I have 1. That is all.

 

Like it's one thing if this is for new phones starting today.... I mean you know what you expect. But here, it isn't the case. I expected the headphone and charger... You have all these unboxing videos, and there is 0 notification of changes on Apple website, nor saying the accessories it comes with (so you have to rely on those unboxing videos), and surprise! You don't! And again, this is a budget phone, the target customers, are those who are limited in budget. 50$ is a lot. Now you jump to another, possibly, better phone...

 

And looking at the packaging from the unboxing and new I see more unrecyclable materials. On top of that, add the box for both accessories, and shipping environmental cost, and now, it is obvious it pollutes more. So, for those who are defending Apple... I am sorry, this is shit! You guys defending Apple have 0 argument.

 

Not to mention the SE is priced right in that price bracket of a mid range Android device. So it's going to be the iPhone that Android users are going to get if they do make that switch.

 

After thinking about it some more, for current iPhone users upgrading, having just the cable shouldn't be much of an issue since it's still Lightning, so your cables from your previous iPhone will work, fine (unless you're somehow still using an iPhone 4s then you're stuffed I guess).

 

But no earphones? I don't know. They must be really banking on the hope that most people have adopted Bluetooth headphone at this point. Considering a pair of decent Bluetooth headphones costs a little bit more than decent wired earphones, maybe I'll let it slide. But since the exclusion of these two accessories still didn't result in a reduced price... that is inexcusable. If they had just lowered the price, made those accessories an option you can add back and the total price matched the original MSRP, then we probably wouldn't be having this conversation. But no.

[GoodBytes]

8 hours ago, HenrySalayne said:

 

 

Ah they have just updated the page it looks like, at least Apple Canada.

And even then, you had to scroll all the way down, but not too down, mixed in a bunch of stuff. Considering that they change the accessories from what they released to reviewers, that is not cool. This leans as bait and switch.

 

That is like shopping for a car, you saw reviews, you saw it in stores, you test drove the car, you buy... and woops, the tires are no longer included.

For environmental reason, tires are no longer included with the car, as people buying this car, have tires from their previous car, even though this new car requires special tires that virtually no one else has. Price of the car didn't drop. Car tires are an extra $1.5k Rims not included. That is an extra $1k

 

[Commodus]

2 hours ago, GoodBytes said:

Ah they have just updated the page it looks like, at least Apple Canada.

And even then, you had to scroll all the way down, but not too down, mixed in a bunch of stuff. Considering that they change the accessories from what they released to reviewers, that is not cool. This leans as bait and switch.

 

That is like shopping for a car, you saw reviews, you saw it in stores, you test drove the car, you buy... and woops, the tires are no longer included.

For environmental reason, tires are no longer included with the car, as people buying this car, have tires from their previous car, even though this new car requires special tires that virtually no one else has. Price of the car didn't drop. Car tires are an extra $1.5k Rims not included. That is an extra $1k

 

It's not nearly as malicious as you make it sound, I'm afraid. Those "in the box" items have been there since the introduction (I know, I checked!). The event included a whole segment devoted to why there wasn't a charger in the box. And I haven't seen a single reviewer who was given charging equipment but didn't also mention the lack of an included charger. Apple could be a bit more up front about things, but it's definitely not trying to hide anything.

 

I'm not convinced Apple was purely trying to be greedy. The environmental aspect is a concern, but I also think Apple is trying to offset the costs of 5G. Imagine if the iPhone 12 cost, say, $849 because Apple included the 20W charger in the box... yeah, people would be moaning about that, too. I don't doubt that Apple is thinking about its profits — I just don't believe this is mutually exclusive from any environmental or price point concerns.

 

[Master Delta Chief]

1 hour ago, Commodus said:

It's not nearly as malicious as you make it sound, I'm afraid. Those "in the box" items have been there since the introduction (I know, I checked!). The event included a whole segment devoted to why there wasn't a charger in the box. And I haven't seen a single reviewer who was given charging equipment but didn't also mention the lack of an included charger. Apple could be a bit more up front about things, but it's definitely not trying to hide anything.

 

I'm not convinced Apple was purely trying to be greedy. The environmental aspect is a concern, but I also think Apple is trying to offset the costs of 5G. Imagine if the iPhone 12 cost, say, $849 because Apple included the 20W charger in the box... yeah, people would be moaning about that, too. I don't doubt that Apple is thinking about its profits — I just don't believe this is mutually exclusive from any environmental or price point concerns.

 

If they are really concerned about the environment, they give the consumer the option for either having a phone with the charger at price that's a little higer and one without one that's at a lower price. Regardless, right now people still need to buy a new charger if they haven't got one already which can be relatively pricey depending on the manufacturer you are looking at. Plus considering the cable they include is usb-c to lightning only, it makes things a little awkward if you are coming from a device that used micro-usb. 

[GoodBytes]

 

Quote

I'm not convinced Apple was purely trying to be greedy. The environmental aspect is a concern, but I also think Apple is trying to offset the costs of 5G. Imagine if the iPhone 12 cost, say, $849 because Apple included the 20W charger in the box... yeah, people would be moaning about that, too. I don't doubt that Apple is thinking about its profits — I just don't believe this is mutually exclusive from any environmental or price point concerns.

The iPhone SE 2020 doesn't have 5G. People would not be moaning... reviewers would, but most of Apple users get their phone financed with their cellphone network providers. That 1-2$ in the bill increase per month, is not visible to them. Of course, in the end, it is 240$ after 2 years that they paid, but most people don't think like that.

And a 20W charger, yea people would complain. The base charger is 25W, but the one that should come with the device is a 35W one. iPhone SE is the one that should have the 25W version, being a "budget" phone.

[Orange1]

Is all of 5G hacked with backdoors from China or just 5g phones from China?

That is why I am reluctant to purchase 5G.