Apple finally enters 5G - iPhone 12 + homePod mini announcement

[GoodBytes]

1 hour ago, Whiskers said:

Now... if only they'd ditch Lightning already and embrace USB C. You want to talk about environmental impact and not encouraging ewaste? Don't force people to buy proprietary cables and accessories.

Apple will reply: If we change to USB Type C, it will make people throw away their current cables, creating e-waste.

[thechinchinsong]

TBH as a long time android user and fan, even though I have no urge to switch, I feel like the Iphone 12 mini would be a good phone for me if I were interesting in Apple products. I can appreciate a flagship processor, decent screen (subjective), and all the features expected from an Apple product for 700$. Quite competitive. Shame they didn't handle the charging cable/port/charger situation very well imo.

[Whiskers]

25 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

Apple will reply: If we change to USB Type C, it will make people throw away their current cables, creating e-waste.

 

Then they shouldn't have spent the better part of the last decade locking people into those proprietary cables in the first place.

 

Their professed goal is certainly a good one. E-waste is a big problem, and cutting down on the e-waste that they as a company generate is a laudable target. But the way they've gone about this just reeks of profit-seeking rather than true e-waste reduction; by including a Lightning to USB C cable instead of USB A they've struck off compatibility with the vast majority of chargers their customers already have, necessitating many to buy new chargers (or indeed cables) anyway, and by not having some sort of way for a customer to obtain a charger at no additional cost when they need one, they've essentially forced the customer into paying $30 extra just for the luxury of being able to use the expensive phone they've bought.

[GoodBytes]

30 minutes ago, Whiskers said:

 

Then they shouldn't have spent the better part of the last decade locking people into those proprietary cables in the first place.

 

Their professed goal is certainly a good one. E-waste is a big problem, and cutting down on the e-waste that they as a company generate is a laudable target. But the way they've gone about this just reeks of profit-seeking rather than true e-waste reduction; by including a Lightning to USB C cable instead of USB A they've struck off compatibility with the vast majority of chargers their customers already have, necessitating many to buy new chargers (or indeed cables) anyway, and by not having some sort of way for a customer to obtain a charger at no additional cost when they need one, they've essentially forced the customer into paying $30 extra just for the luxury of being able to use the expensive phone they've bought.

Honestly, while I don't have any data to backup anything, I am sure that the charger and cable is the least of one worries in terms of e-waste. Phone reparability and reuse program should be the target. In my opinion, they can sell actual refurbished phones, where they have been actually repaired and formatted, to other markets in the world, where most can't afford an iPhone (or whatever Apple product, but wants one). It may be a generation behind, but that would be, in my opinion, an excellent starting point. The ultra rich in those countries, will want new and latest one, in any case. Sure, maybe some will take advantage of importing them... but really, I don't think it will impact sales of the new ones all that much, as people tend to want the latest one (especially that more, at least in Canada and US, and probably other regions in the world, people tend to finance their phone via their phone service provider)

[NotTheFirstDaniel]

On 10/13/2020 at 2:46 PM, NotTheFirstDaniel said:

It's gonna happen across all phones within the next year or so. The phone industry will follow the same 3 step cycle.

 

1) Laugh at Apple removing a necessary feature/item

2) See Apple's sales grow despite lacking the necessary feature/item.

3) Quickly adopt what Apple did and pretend Step 1 never happened

 

By Step 3 it's iPhone Event time again and the cycle repeats itself.

Looks like Step 1 has already happened...

 

 

[Soppro]

On 10/14/2020 at 5:12 AM, NotTheFirstDaniel said:

I usually like Apple events, but that event was a fucking mess. Apparently the entire event got leaked before it was over too (as in the entire video stream)...

It was well produced and while I think some of the features were a little mundane, I don't think it was a mess at all. My definition of an absolute mess would be Google's event ..

[RejZoR]

9 hours ago, thechinchinsong said:

TBH as a long time android user and fan, even though I have no urge to switch, I feel like the Iphone 12 mini would be a good phone for me if I were interesting in Apple products. I can appreciate a flagship processor, decent screen (subjective), and all the features expected from an Apple product for 700$. Quite competitive. Shame they didn't handle the charging cable/port/charger situation very well imo.

I'm more afraid of the fallout of EVERYONE now suddenly not including chargers and selling them separately. And we all know it will happen. It happened with jack and wireless earphones and it happened again with the notch. We know for a fact everyone is going to copy Apple again and do this shit. Everyone with the "me too" giving a shit about environment /s

[n0stalghia]

9 hours ago, Whiskers said:

 

Then they shouldn't have spent the better part of the last decade locking people into those proprietary cables in the first place.

 

Their professed goal is certainly a good one. E-waste is a big problem, and cutting down on the e-waste that they as a company generate is a laudable target. But the way they've gone about this just reeks of profit-seeking rather than true e-waste reduction; by including a Lightning to USB C cable instead of USB A they've struck off compatibility with the vast majority of chargers their customers already have, necessitating many to buy new chargers (or indeed cables) anyway, and by not having some sort of way for a customer to obtain a charger at no additional cost when they need one, they've essentially forced the customer into paying $30 extra just for the luxury of being able to use the expensive phone they've bought.

If you already have an Apple charger, then you already have a Lighting to Type A cable. I don't get your argument. How are you charging your iPhone now, if not with a Type A to Lightning?

[suicidalfranco]

looks good, should have put the steel frame on the iPhone 12 and 12 Mini too imo (Alum just needs to go away already). If it wasn't for iOS i'd pick the Mini.

[Monkey Dust]

3 hours ago, RejZoR said:

I'm more afraid of the fallout of EVERYONE now suddenly not including chargers and selling them separately. And we all know it will happen. It happened with jack and wireless earphones and it happened again with the notch. We know for a fact everyone is going to copy Apple again and do this shit. Everyone with the "me too" giving a shit about environment /s

Nintendo were ahead of the game on this with the 'new 3DS'. I have bought quite a bit that just comes with a USB-A charging cable (BT speaker, Wii-U and Switch pro controllers) it's been happening for years, not a big deal. 

 

If you didn't have one already, you were going to have to buy a USB-C wall wart at some point. I recommend Anker.

 

In the iPhone 11 box there included only a basic charger. If you wanted to utilize fast charging you needed a new cable and wall wart, so this is kind of progress...  I bet the included wired earbuds with iPhones rarely got used either.

[Yeroh]

I was considering an upgrade from my iPhone X this year, but I'm having a hard time justifying that to myself. Outside of the squared edges, this is the fourth phone in a row that looks basically identical and doesn't offer any compelling new features. They didn't even manage (or were willing) to reduce the size of the notch. From the front this could literally be the iPhone X.

 

I get that 120hz would've been another hit on the battery, but at the very least it would've offered a more substantial reason to purchase the new phones. As it is what is even the reason to choose the Pro line iover the standard iPhone 12? Now that all of them have OLED screens, why would I spend an extra ~350€ (780€ -> 1120€ in Germany) for a stainless steel frame and a telephoto lense? Unless you go for the Max, which has a better main sensor, it's barely any different. And at that point, you're paying 450€ extra.

 

As much as I'd love a better camera, this is such an underwhelming upgrade. And we haven't even talked about the utterly ridiculous decision to not include any accessories "for the environment". I'm sure the environment will be much better off with bigger margins on Apple products, but I'd have appreciated the option to include a charger anyway.

[Whiskers]

5 hours ago, n0stalghia said:

If you already have an Apple charger, then you already have a Lighting to Type A cable. I don't get your argument. How are you charging your iPhone now, if not with a Type A to Lightning?

It's a fair point, and for me personally it's true, I could just use the Lightning to USB A cables I already have. But then the bundled Lightning to USB C cable is ewaste, and is so for everyone who would need to rely on their USB A cables.

 

Additionally, there will also be a lot of users who don't already have a Lightning to USB A cable; people who are upgrading from a phone with MicroUSB for example, those who are buying a smartphone for the first time, or those whose previous iPhone cable has been lost or damaged (they're not exactly known for being long-lasting, after all). And for those people Apple's move simply means they need to pay more money just for the luxury of being able to use their device.

 

I have no problem with Apple reducing ewaste, and indeed agree that removing the bundled earphones and charger from the product box is a good move for the environment (when done right). I do have a problem however with them being dishonest about their motivations and actions. Apple as a company have bragged for years about their determination to reduce their impact on the environment, and have endlessly marketed their focus on recycling - but they intentionally design their products to obstruct easy repair and reuse, fight tooth and nail against the Right to Repair movement, refuse to repair devices that are out of warranty without a very steep cost to the user, refuse to carry out repairs or part replacements on devices they consider too old (even if you're willing to pay for it), and refuse to make official replacement parts easily available to third party repair services or individuals.

 

Until Apple begin to take a more holistic and consistent approach to lessening their environmental impact, I'll continue to criticise them for their dishonest marketing on that front.

[HenrySalayne]

15 minutes ago, Whiskers said:

Additionally, there will also be a lot of users who don't already have a Lightning to USB A cable; people who are upgrading from a phone with MicroUSB for example, those who are buying a smartphone for the first time, or those whose previous iPhone cable has been lost or damaged (they're not exactly known for being long-lasting, after all). And for those people Apple's move simply means they need to pay more money just for the luxury of being able to use their device.

Apple has changed the iPad power supply and the Macbook power supply to USB-C on both ends. The next logical step is to switch the iPhone (at least one end) to USB-C. All devices are now capable to use the same power supplies and you can finally plug your phone into your Macbook without an adapter.
It's a real shame if you don't own additional Apple products. 

I recently tried to reset my Apple ID's password. Without additional devices like iPhone and an iPad you have to wait 14 (!) days just to reinstall Mac OS. Apple doesn't care!

 

 

[Kisai]

On 10/13/2020 at 11:14 AM, Lord Vile said:

So they essentially making android cameras a laughing stock...

The Camera's are not really that impressive given that the actual color sensors are not global shutter's, and you don't see them in much of anything over 720p. A HDR 4Kp60 sensor is not exactly something worth caring about if the image captured looks like jello from being a rolling shutter.

 

If you read professional digital still/video blogs, they do basically go "It's a nice camera, but it won't replace my (much more expensive) DSLR or Video camera", even Video cameras have largely been replaced by still cameras with better sensors (which such a sensor is $1300 by itself, never mind anything else. A full camcorder is so expensive that it's rated in $1000's/mo on lease.)

 

However the iPhone is the cheapest way to get photos and video without having to invest the price of a car into that equipment. But y'all are fooling yourselves if you think you're going to produce a feature film on an iPhone. The problem with tiny sensors is the requirement for good light, and even with professional grade equipment a lot of light is needed.

[RejZoR]

I even believe video quality is good as iPhones are a benchmark for video quality, what I never understood was video editing on a phone. Editing video using touch on tiny display, I don't know...

[Lord Vile]

35 minutes ago, Kisai said:

The Camera's are not really that impressive given that the actual color sensors are not global shutter's, and you don't see them in much of anything over 720p. A HDR 4Kp60 sensor is not exactly something worth caring about if the image captured looks like jello from being a rolling shutter.

 

If you read professional digital still/video blogs, they do basically go "It's a nice camera, but it won't replace my (much more expensive) DSLR or Video camera", even Video cameras have largely been replaced by still cameras with better sensors (which such a sensor is $1300 by itself, never mind anything else. A full camcorder is so expensive that it's rated in $1000's/mo on lease.)

 

However the iPhone is the cheapest way to get photos and video without having to invest the price of a car into that equipment. But y'all are fooling yourselves if you think you're going to produce a feature film on an iPhone. The problem with tiny sensors is the requirement for good light, and even with professional grade equipment a lot of light is needed.

Believe I've already said in this thread, maybe not but it was recently, that phone cameras aren't even up to the standard of a bottom end mirrorless in terms of stills. (I have a bottom end Fuji and it beats my iPhone 11 Pro easily). 

 

Think you're going too high end there. People aren't going to be shooting blockbusters on an iPhone but it is probably the best option to start out with or even do something like YouTube with. Wouldn't see much benefit of moving to an actual camera until you're actually studying or making money from cinematography which is where buying something like a used A7Sii might be worthwhile.

[HenrySalayne]

11 minutes ago, Lord Vile said:

Think you're going too high end there. People aren't going to be shooting blockbusters on an iPhone

Which is exactly what Apple is suggesting in their keynote.

[Lord Vile]

16 minutes ago, HenrySalayne said:

Which is exactly what Apple is suggesting in their keynote.

Obviously they're gonna oversell it but it was mainly showing how people can use it in different ways. Like strapping it to a drone is a good solution to people who don't have a purpose build crane like they do on movie sets. Personally I find the keynote a lot better than "100x Space Zoom"

[Commodus]

50 minutes ago, RejZoR said:

I even believe video quality is good as iPhones are a benchmark for video quality, what I never understood was video editing on a phone. Editing video using touch on tiny display, I don't know...

It comes in handy sometimes. You probably won't edit a masterpiece, but I've whipped up quick edits to have more polished videos (say, stitching together clips from a concert in the Before Times).

[sof006]

Apple, forever has to be the "We're doing something different" even though its so dumb. "Lets make a lightning to USB-C cable but not include a charging brick in the box".

 

Worst thing of all? Apple crazy fans will lap it up and buy a separate charger directly from Apple when previously it was included in the box at no extra cost

19 Dollars for a 20W Fast Charger??

 

I doubt that any previous owners of an iPhone even have a charger like this. Also this does not reduce e-waste like many might like to think, if anything this will only increase it as now people will throw out their old chargers to replace them with new chargers.

 

Apple, when the world asked you to move to Type-C we didn't mean this. I swear this company gets worse with time. 

[RejZoR]

7 minutes ago, sof006 said:

Apple, forever has to be the "We're doing something different" even though its so dumb. "Lets make a lightning to USB-C cable but not include a charging brick in the box".

 

Worst thing of all? Apple crazy fans will lap it up and buy a separate charger directly from Apple when previously it was included in the box at no extra cost

19 Dollars for a 20W Fast Charger??

 

I doubt that any previous owners of an iPhone even have a charger like this. Also this does not reduce e-waste like many might like to think, if anything this will only increase it as now people will throw out their old chargers to replace them with new chargers.

 

Apple, when the world asked you to move to Type-C we didn't mean this. I swear this company gets worse with time. 

Also I don't know based on what it's "e-waste" when accessories are accompanying the device? Every device with a charger that I sold, I always sold it with ALL included accessories. Not only you get rid of clutter at home, you also raise the sell value of an used item. Hell, when my netbook died, I always sold the adapters or chargers separately. Where is any waste in that? Or I simply used the extra chargers as backup at work or in car.

 

As much as I otherwise like Apple and quite a lot of their things, this removal of chargers under pretense of ecology is just straight up disgusting path to maximize profits with an excuse "we're doing it for ecology". Buuuulshit. You just want to sell us more shit. Well, in the end I won't buy it from Apple, but from Anker, RAVPower, Baseus or UGreen. So much for less e-waste when I'll be shipping those items from China most likely as separate package...

[HenrySalayne]

@sof006

Look at the situation from Apple's perspective:

- instead of different packaging for different regions, one packaging is enough

- the packaging got much smaller (less volume, reduced shipping costs)

- logistic is much easier (no need to wait for the regional version if demand is exceeding stock)

- no charger, less costs

- despite the complains not a single device isn't sold because there is no charger included

- additional revenue every time people habe to buy chargers

 

From an economical point of view, Apple pretty much increased their profit by at least 5% with this change. And they can even claim they did it for the environment. Good job, Apple!

[Donut417]

2 hours ago, HenrySalayne said:

@sof006

Look at the situation from Apple's perspective:

- instead of different packaging for different regions, one packaging is enough

- the packaging got much smaller (less volume, reduced shipping costs)

- logistic is much easier (no need to wait for the regional version if demand is exceeding stock)

- no charger, less costs

- despite the complains not a single device isn't sold because there is no charger included

- additional revenue every time people habe to buy chargers

 

From an economical point of view, Apple pretty much increased their profit by at least 5% with this change. And they can even claim they did it for the environment. Good job, Apple!

To add as well. I think people are moving to Wireless charging as well. So the lack of charger becomes less of an issue. Hell my Lightning cable is pretty much permanently in my car, as I use it for Apple Car Play. I use a wireless charger to charge my phone. 

[n0stalghia]

20 hours ago, Whiskers said:

It's a fair point, and for me personally it's true, I could just use the Lightning to USB A cables I already have. But then the bundled Lightning to USB C cable is ewaste, and is so for everyone who would need to rely on their USB A cables.

...

For new people, yes. It's a bad situation.

 

I think the Type C is included so you can connect to your Mac. The newer ones have nothing but Type C ports, and this is the only normal way to transfer data. After that, you can plug the Type C cable into your Mac charger.

[Video Beagle]

Seem's like a whole lot of complaining because, well, tat's wat the forum does.

 

No lightning ->usb A....you mean the cable you can get for a few bucks at any store you can think of? And the new phones still work with all the lightning based accessories that people have invested in already? I remember when apple went from the docking port to ligting and that pissed everyone off..why should they do that now, especially when the future is looking more and more like wireless charging. So they should switch twice in quick succession?

Of course, had they included a lighting usbA cable, you'd be bitching about ewaste on that.