EVE Project V revealed at long last

[Bombastinator]

8 minutes ago, tim0901 said:

The manufacturers aren't at fault here, it's AMD that's unable to supply the chips fast enough to meet the demand. Previously released laptops are being pulled because they've got 4 week long waiting lists.

This is also what I’ve been hearing.  Kind of curious as to the reason for that.

[Fatih19]

3 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

This is also what I’ve been hearing.  Kind of curious as to the reason for that.

I think they simply underestimated the reception of these new chips, thus not allocating enough capacity on TSMC's fabs to fulfill the demands for them.

[Bombastinator]

Just now, Fatih19 said:

I think they simply underestimated the reception of these new chips, thus not allocating enough capacity on TSMC's fabs to fulfill the demands for them.

It’s definitely a possibility.

[Energycore]

22 minutes ago, tim0901 said:

The manufacturers aren't at fault here, it's AMD that's unable to supply the chips fast enough to meet the demand. Previously released laptops are being pulled because they've got 4 week long waiting lists.

Do we know this for sure?

 

If so that's interesting. AMD needs to get bigger fabs lol. Hopefully the partnership with TSMC continues increasing their yield.

[GhostRoadieBL]

39 minutes ago, tim0901 said:

The manufacturers aren't at fault here, it's AMD that's unable to supply the chips fast enough to meet the demand. Previously released laptops are being pulled because they've got 4 week long waiting lists.

that's part of it, the other side is exclusivity deals intel made with laptop manufacturers. Companies made deals for "named product lines" to be exclusive to intel and would have to start over with AMD and market new naming schemes or wait for the intel deals to expire in a few years. 

Noone really expected AMD to come out swinging with Ryzen, especially not Ryzen4000 series which took everyone by surprise. 

 

They also have only 1 generation of laptop chips which hold performance crowns outside of heavily multithreaded applications, intel is still single thread king (for now) and have the catchy big number marketing "i7 with 5.2ghz!" so their rinse and repeat laptop models make sense for companies. Having to design an whole new PCB layout to swap chip traces or release the same laptop with 2% higher specs each year without changing anything in the styling/cooling/power delivery/traces on the board it's no contest. 

 

in 2 years we'll see a ton of AMD laptops IF the market actually calls for them, as long as intel is selling companies don't really care. 

[tim0901]

30 minutes ago, Energycore said:

Do we know this for sure?

A german laptop manufacturer called XMG has been making posts on Reddit about it:

Quote

On July 31 we received an announcement from our ODM that we are facing a serious CPU shortage from AMD in Q3 2020. Large orders that have recently been confirmed to be shipped from our ODM in the middle and end of August are now supposed to be delayed until the end of September.

https://www.reddit.com/r/XMG_gg/comments/i2vsu9/supply_bottleneck_on_amd_ryzen_in_xmg_core/

Quote

Hi Reddit,

After an extensive update from our ODM, we now have a new estimated arrival date of significant quantities of Ryzen 7 4800H in various models.

Estimated Arrival Date in our Warehouse: between November 4 to 9. As soon as the goods arrive, we'd start to build pre-orders.

https://www.reddit.com/r/XMG_gg/comments/ipdq6x/supply_update_on_ryzen_5_4600h_and_ryzen_7_4800h/

 

[tim0901]

9 minutes ago, GhostRoadieBL said:

that's part of it, the other side is exclusivity deals intel made with laptop manufacturers. Companies made deals for "named product lines" to be exclusive to intel and would have to start over with AMD and market new naming schemes or wait for the intel deals to expire in a few years. 

At the moment this doesn't really matter though. Dell releasing an XPS 15 with an AMD CPU inside wouldn't suddenly solve their supply issue. If AMD can't supply enough chips, then they can't supply enough chips. Having more popular product lines would only exacerbate that issue.

 

In however many weeks/months time when AMD sorts out their supply issues, sure. More popular product lines like an XPS are exactly what they need. But until then having a limited range of products is a nonissue. If anything right now it's a blessing: if these CPUs were in more popular products like an XPS then they would be getting a hell of a lot more bad press about this.

 

It also makes me wonder about upcoming RX 6000 and Ryzen 5000 supply. Is this shortage a sign that Sony and Microsoft are eating into AMD's wafer supply with the upcoming consoles? Or maybe AMD has been holding back in the laptop segment to ensure supply for their (maybe more hyped?) desktop SKUs? Or it could simply be, as you said, that the 4000 series was just that much better than expected.

[GhostRoadieBL]

2 minutes ago, tim0901 said:

Dell releasing an XPS 15 with an AMD CPU inside wouldn't suddenly solve their supply issue.

That's why "it's part of it..." but not all of it

[Bombastinator]

9 minutes ago, GhostRoadieBL said:

That's why "it's part of it..." but not all of it

The impression I am getting is that if AMD wants a priest in the laptop space 5000apus are going to have to pound just as hard as 4000 ones are doing, and whatever happens for zen4 is going to have to be just as good. That’s a tough row to hoe.  

[Random_Person1234]

4 hours ago, tim0901 said:

Assuming you can even get an AMD laptop. They’re as hard to find in stock as a 3080 right now - lots of manufacturers (eg HP) have stopped listing them on their sites.

Spoiler

Most of the HP Envy lineup that features Ryzen 4000 is available on HP's website right now. 

[kakik09]

and it will still have a garbage webcam 

[schwellmo92]

The Tiger Lake U processors are good, I don't know why everyone is whinging. I would definitely align myself closer with AMD than Intel but you can't just write off Tiger Lake U as garbage because the multi-core CPU performance isn't as good as the Ryzen 4800U.

 

The Tiger Lake U has advantages in both graphics and single-threaded workload, disadvantages in multi-threaded workloads and is about a tie in power efficiency for a typical days usage. I suspect Tiger Lake U is probably going to be a little more expensive too.

[Bombastinator]

48 minutes ago, schwellmo92 said:

The Tiger Lake U processors are good, I don't know why everyone is whinging. I would definitely align myself closer with AMD than Intel but you can't just write off Tiger Lake U as garbage because the multi-core CPU performance isn't as good as the Ryzen 4800U.

 

The Tiger Lake U has advantages in both graphics and single-threaded workload, disadvantages in multi-threaded workloads and is about a tie in power efficiency for a typical days usage. I suspect Tiger Lake U is probably going to be a little more expensive too.

Xe is good. Better than vega.  Single thread advantage is tiny though and multi core disadvantage is immense.  Apparently they still use more power though.  Not significant on desktops but an extra hour or two of battery life can be a big deal on a laptop.  They are pretty close.   If I wanted to play games on a thin and light with no discrete gpu, intel wins.  Integrated graphics isn’t quite at the level of real gamability though it is close. If they gave Xe a bit more gumption to kick it over the top they’d have something.  Xe is supposed to link up with itself pretty well.  A Xe iGPU with an extra Xe discrete might just do it.  Intel didn’t make one though.  So light light gaming in a pinch only.  The question is how many people want to do that?

Edited October 10, 2020 by Bombastinator

[schwellmo92]

13 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

Xe is good. Better than vega.  Single thread advantage is tiny though and multi core disadvantage is immense.  Apparently they still use more power though.  Not significant on desktops but an extra hour or two of battery life can be a big deal on a laptop.  They are pretty close.   If I wanted to play games on a thin and light with no discrete gpu, intel wins.  Integrated graphics isn’t quite at the level of real gamability though it is close. If they gave Xe a bit more gumption to kick it over the top they’d have something.  Xe is supposed to link up with itself pretty well.  A Xe iGPU with an extra Xe discrete might just do it.  Intel didn’t make one though.  So light light gaming in a pinch only.  The question is how many people want to do that?

The single threaded advantage is about 20%, multi core disadvantage is 60% and graphics advantage is up to 50%.

 

The power draw is the same over a typical day (AMD even said so in their 4000 series mobile presentation).

[Bombastinator]

11 minutes ago, schwellmo92 said:

The single threaded advantage is about 20%, multi core disadvantage is 60% and graphics advantage is up to 50%.

 

The power draw is the same over a typical day (AMD even said so in their 4000 series mobile presentation).

That wasn’t what the reviews I saw said. 4/8 tiger lake drew more power than 8/16 ryzen.  They also had both single and multi thread closer.  10% and 50% respectively.  The graphics I believe.  Xe is impressive.  It strikes me to be a question is how much good is that performance?  If it’s useful it’s a big big deal.  If it’s not, it isn’t.  I would be interested to see 8/16 tiger lake U.  It’s not out yet though.  8/16 tiger lake with two xes could be a force.

[Murasaki]

7 hours ago, elfensky said:

Oh. EVE the company. Not EVE the game.

I literally thought it was about the game...

[schwellmo92]

4 hours ago, Bombastinator said:

That wasn’t what the reviews I saw said. 4/8 tiger lake drew more power than 8/16 ryzen.  They also had both single and multi thread closer.  10% and 50% respectively.  The graphics I believe.  Xe is impressive.  It strikes me to be a question is how much good is that performance?  If it’s useful it’s a big big deal.  If it’s not, it isn’t.  I would be interested to see 8/16 tiger lake U.  It’s not out yet though.  8/16 tiger lake with two xes could be a force.

Check some more reviews. They’re not releasing an 8 core Tiger Lake part either.

[Bombastinator]

1 hour ago, schwellmo92 said:

Check some more reviews. They’re not releasing an 8 core Tiger Lake part either.

There was an article I read claiming intel “coyly” stated they would.  They apparently haven’t so far. That they might not ever is definitely possible.

[Dominik W]

This looks like a pretty cool laptop. Hopefully they'll make one with a bit more of a solid keyboard. I'm not necessarily a fan of the Microsoft Surface style of detachable keyboards. This still looks nice though.

[NumLock21]

one thing with these startup lack, is support of their products on the grand scale of things. Like do they have sufficient supply of spare parts or laptops on hand, that’s ready for exchange when a customer says the one they have is faulty. For those looking for a laptop buy from a well known brand like dell, hp, acer, asus, etc.

[dizmo]

I wouldn't touch this company with a 10 foot pole. Unless you don't care about actually getting the product, of course. 

[GoodBytes]

On 10/9/2020 at 12:02 AM, eeeee1 said:

is tiger lake better than amd's mobile chips?

not a fanboy or anything. just asking

From what I am seeing, Intel chip COULD consume less power (which is probably why they went with this) and maxes it out at 4cores, so AMD chip will faster in multi-tasking. All depends on the chip model they choose.

 

AMD Ryzen 4700U is an 8 core CPU design, quite fast, but consumes 25W (make that 30W for the 4800U)

So, if they pick the i3-111064, it will be awful... For such slim device, assume any of the 7W variant. Probably setup to peek at 10-12W and not the full 15W, unless they don't care about weight and fan noise, nor battery life.

[GoodBytes]

On 10/11/2020 at 10:36 AM, NumLock21 said:

one thing with these startup lack, is support of their products on the grand scale of things. Like do they have sufficient supply of spare parts or laptops on hand, that’s ready for exchange when a customer says the one they have is faulty. For those looking for a laptop buy from a well known brand like dell, hp, acer, asus, etc.

I agree. You have no support with them. I even recall reading stories back in 2016 where users where left in the dust with their faulty units.

While the device is impressive, and this is exactly what Microsoft wants (they create new form factors, and manufactures make them and competes in them).

 

Personally. I see plenty of room for a USB Type-A port. So I don't get it why they aren't putting at least one. Also, going by the USB ports alone, it looks like the device is thicker than my Surface Pro 3... which well.. the Pro 4 and later are thinner devices, especially the Surface Pro X (which, in this case, justifies its USB Type-C only usage).

 

 

Also 2 of the 4 speakers are poorly placed:

 

The 2 at the bottom, will be covered by your hands.

 

Feels like this version needs more work, in my opinion. The speakers should be lower. If the keyboard cover doesn't block them, it could be put there like the ones at the top.

 

 

My suggestion: Get the latest Surface Pro. It will have an Intel 11th gen chip at its next refresh (due to the lower power consumption over AMD current offerings). Second recommendation, look at HP Spectre x2 , which is a big step down over the Surface Pro, but it is the better alternative of the other manufacture, for the same form factor.

[Nowak]

Neat. I bet like 75% of them won't be delivered to customers.

[Delphi1662]

From ANY other company this thing would have a chance in me thinking about buying from them but almost the entire first page here either didn't know or forgot that EVE has been notorious for not delivering to PAYING customers.... yeah for a company like this even if you managed to get one delivered support is probably going to be shit