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Three times the charm - New AMD CPU announcement + big Navi Teaser

36 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

See my post above. It's at best a 50% price increase for a 20% performance increase. Zen 2 is a lot better value. 

It's really not much different than when the Ryzen 3000 series came out, 3xxx cpu's had a performance improvment, and much better IMC, but 2xxx cpu's were a much better value.

You compared a non-X cpu to the X sku cpu, not really a fair comparison price wise, I don't like the $50 pricing increase however I understand AMD is going to increase prices if they can get close or beat Intel at performance. I doubt there will just be X CPU's, it just might be a while until there are non-X CPU's.

I really don't see people complain about Intel pricing even though they've been using 14nm+++++++++++++++++++ and always require a new socket.

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4 minutes ago, cj09beira said:

didn't amd said they were waiting for ddr5 before wasting die space on avx512?

I'm not aware of that. If you got a reference I'd be interested.

 

Before Zen 2, AMD have severely lagged Intel in FPU back to... I think their last "good" CPU was the X6-era? Even the first two iterations of Ryzen were more Sandy Bridge era performance. Zen 2 finally managed to not only catch up but slightly pass Intel's mainstream offerings, but not their higher parts. As I'm not going to try getting one around launch, someone else will have to run the benchmarks but I don't expect Zen 3 to be significantly different from Zen 2 in that respect. Not the 19% average for sure, if anywhere on the lower end of that.

 

Feeding AVX-512 has been a problem though. DDR5 could go some way to help with that, but fundamentally I'd like to see more channels on upper-end consumer systems.

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29 minutes ago, GDRRiley said:

give it time this is only the higher end SKUs amd tends to drop prices fast.

and 3000 chips should still be around some. they'll keep the 3600, 3330x until they have replacements at those prices

This is what kills me about all the complaining here. It's like the Ryzen 5000 series isn't going to JUST be 4 CPUs😂

Yet here everyone is losing their shit comparing the 3600 to the 5600X...The X SKUs were never worth the price premium from a cost/performance perspective, even within the same generation.

 

Everyone just needs to chill the fuck out, the non-X SKUs will be here eventually.

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Any news on how many memory channels? dual or quad?

 

So far they only specify speed and type.

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4 minutes ago, Kongoloxiii said:

Any news on how many memory channels? dual or quad?

 

So far they only specify speed and type.

It's going to be dual channel most likely, its a consumer CPU

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6 minutes ago, imreloadin said:

This is what kills me about all the complaining here. It's like the Ryzen 5000 series isn't going to JUST be 4 CPUs😂

Yet here everyone is losing their shit comparing the 3600 to the 5600X...The X SKUs were never worth the price premium from a cost/performance perspective, even within the same generation.

 

Everyone just needs to chill the fuck out, the non-X SKUs will be here eventually.

 

18 minutes ago, Blademaster91 said:

It's really not much different than when the Ryzen 3000 series came out, 3xxx cpu's had a performance improvment, and much better IMC, but 2xxx cpu's were a much better value.

You compared a non-X cpu to the X sku cpu, not really a fair comparison price wise, I don't like the $50 pricing increase however I understand AMD is going to price their product higher if they can get close or beat Intel at performance.

I really don't see people complain about Intel pricing even though they've been using 14nm+++++++++++++++++++ and always require a new socket.

It's very fair. 3600 came out right at launch day, it instantly became one of the best value CPU. X skews from the very start were much worse value wise.

So we compare as it is today. Not some hypotetical "in 6 months, they'll release new CPU and it will be better". When (and if) non X skews is going to be released, then  we can compare them. 

After all, what matters is performance and value parts offer, not if a model number has X at the end. 

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3 minutes ago, imreloadin said:

Everyone just needs to chill the fuck out, the non-X SKUs will be here eventually.

The 1600 was available at launch. The 2600 was available at launch. The 3600 was available at launch. I know as I got all three within days of launch. What we have is a departure from past behaviour. I guess we can't rule out the possibility they will go shortly before launch, "oh BTW here's the rest of the stack also" but I'm not holding my breath for it.

 

In case it is handy, I tried to compile a table of models aligned by model number, ignoring generation number. I got lazy and took the numbers for older gen from Wikipedia without further checking, so let me know if any are out and I'll edit.

 

Model MSRP USD Model MSRP USD Model MSRP USD Model MSRP USD
5950X 799 3950X 749        
5900X 549 3900X 499        
5800X 449 3800X 399     1800X 499
    3700X 329 2700X 329 1700X 399
        2700 299 1700 329
5600X 299 3600X 249 2600X 229 1600X 249
    3600 199 2600 199 1600 219

 

 

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7 minutes ago, Kongoloxiii said:

Any news on how many memory channels? dual or quad?

It has to be dual channel since they are not changing socket or mobos.

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Hope the "Zen2 IMC" is more like Renoir and not Matisse. 2000MHz+ FCLK would be tasty.

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I see lots of good, a couple meh, and some wash.

 

First, the simplified sku stack of only 4 parts.  I think this is actually good except for needing 1 more lower end more budget part.  If I were a betting man though, I'd bet they intend to fill that spot with an RDNA based APU (thus the REAL reason to move to 5000 vs the 4000 naming, to stomp over the top of 4000 APU naming) to make it a single chip good option for 1080p gaming and NUC style systems.  I believe the reason for non-X sku's existing for prior versions were lower yields and the binning that results from that, which aren't an issue now that they've gotten 7nm down pat and also do binning down the process stack (note the boost frequencies), which they likely believe to be enough for the yields they are getting.  We will have to see though.

 

Second, price creep.  If we compare to the replaced part names, the price creep really isn't that bad, and still puts them under intel in almost all cases.  I don't like it, but comparing to the non-x versions isn't fair.  Also, keep in mind the launch timing.  This is immediately before black friday.  I expect an initial batch to sell out at this price, a 2nd batch to come in at the same price, and then black friday sales to knock off 50 bucks, and then keep a 25 buck or so overall price increase after the fact.  That would actually be super reasonable and play to the strengths of both hype and the ongoing value proposition.

 

Third, the IO die hasn't changed.  This is nice in that no new boards/chipsets are needed to take full advantage of the chip.  DDR5 really isn't mainstream ready yet, nor would we expect to see desktop motherboards be the first with it.  It also wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility to have Zen4 almost ready, but decide to make a 3+ with just an updated IO die and put them all on the next socket.  From a business perspective, this really makes a lot of sense.  It would've been nice to see a little better official memory speed support though.

 

This fundamentally isn't a change in the package, but a change in the processing chiplet.  This ties into equal gains that should then be expected in any Threadripper and Epyc lineups.

 

I like it overall, but will wait for initial price to settle, and third party reviews, to see if I bother getting one to slap into my B450 APU based server down the road…probably closer to when Zen4 is about to hit.

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29 minutes ago, cj09beira said:

asus did announce a small refresh for a few boards others might do the same before the cpus are on sale

https://www.overclock3d.net/news/cpu_mainboard/asus_rog_reveals_two_new_zen_3_ready_motherboards_-_the_dark_hero_and_strix_xe_gaming/1

Ah thanks, I missed that. I'll keep a look out for other brands.

"To the wise, life is a problem; to the fool, a solution" (Marcus Aurelius)

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when 5600 non x variant

please quote me or tag me @wall03 so i can see your response

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            RAM: 16GB DDR4-3200 CL-16

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7 minutes ago, Hymenopus_Coronatus said:

It's going to be dual channel most likely, its a consumer CPU

bummer   :(

was hoping for
a quad channel for my new build.. build will wait for official specs.

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also noticed that they didn't have Zen+ different from Zen in the slides most of the time.

please quote me or tag me @wall03 so i can see your response

motherboard buying guide      psu buying guide      pc building guide     privacy guide

ltt meme thread

folding at home stats

pc:

Spoiler

 

laptop: macbook air 13.3”

Spoiler

            RAM: 4GB 1333MHz

            CPU: Intel Core i5 2557M

            SSD: 128GB

            OS: Ubuntu 20.04

            Status: Retired PC

desktop: operation badger

Spoiler

            RAM: 16GB DDR4-3200 CL-16

            CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 3600 @ 3.6GHz

            SSD: 256GB

            GPU: Radeon RX 570 8GB OC

            OS: Windows 10

            Status: Main PC

            Cinebench R23 score: 9097 (multi) 1236 (single)

            Temps: CPU idle 45C, load 78C, top 85C. GPU idle 50C, load ~77C.

 

 

don't some things look better when they are lowercase?

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1 minute ago, Kongoloxiii said:

bummer   :(

was hoping for
a quad channel for my new build.. build will wait for official specs.

Same IO die as 3000 series.  Same memory channels.  More channels are where Threadripper has historically come into play.  I'd expect those coming soon too, though they didn't announce them at a gamer specific keynote.

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5 minutes ago, porina said:

The 1600 was available at launch. The 2600 was available at launch. The 3600 was available at launch. I know as I got all three within days of launch. What we have is a departure from past behaviour.

Yeah, you and everyone else bought the cheaper non-X SKU. I can see why AMD would want to hold that back until later as I know I'd do that in their position. Did everyone forget that AMD is a business and will make decisions based upon what will bring them the most revenue?!?!? Everyone expects that out of Intel but yet still seem to think AMD is like their bro or something. When they make decisions they're not doing it just to "do you a favor", they're doing it to make money.

 

So what you most likely have is AMD trying to sell more of their X SKUs by holding back the cheaper non-X SKUs, Sure, you may not go and buy it but that doesn't mean nobody else will. They'll want the newest CPU, look at what is available, and buy the one from that selection that meets their needs the best. Then after however much time passes, AMD releases the non-X SKU CPUs and then you and everyone else who felt like waiting can buy them.

 

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5 hours ago, kewtz said:

I mentioned this in LTT Discord...I've been waiting for 6 months it seems for the "right time" to upgrade...

Had to wait for new Ryzen, then new Nvidia, then new Ryzen again...but I can't get the new Nvidia for another few months.
By that point it will be wait for new Intel?

 

I'm hoping to see better single thread performance, overall.

IPC increases are also nice.

Whats another 2 years, you've been waiting almost a decade by the specs of your computer! (just pull the pin now and upgrade)

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9 minutes ago, Kongoloxiii said:

was hoping for a quad channel for my new build.. build will wait for official specs.

if you need quad for bandwidth or capacity go get threadripper. next gen threadripper should be out soon.

Good luck, Have fun, Build PC, and have a last gen console for use once a year. I should answer most of the time between 9 to 3 PST

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Have they finally fixed the RAM compatibility issues with Ryzen? 

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4 minutes ago, imreloadin said:

Everyone expects that out of Intel but yet still seem to think AMD is like their bro or something. When they make decisions they're not doing it just to "do you a favor", they're doing it to make money.

I agree with you, but this is AMD's own making though. They have positioned themselves there with recent previous gen products. Now they have to shift that perception. Look at the B450 and Zen 3 compatibility thing. I think their original decision not to support it was the right one, but their vocal customers disagreed and forced a change. I almost don't want to buy AMD because it'll be like associating myself with that group of idiots.

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4 minutes ago, BlueChinchillaEatingDorito said:

Have they finally fixed the RAM compatibility issues with Ryzen? 

With previous generations it took many bios updates before it got ok. However this time around, if they're not changing the IOD then the ram interface is essentially unchanged also. We don't know for sure that is the case, but it seems likely. So, all the work going on with Zen 2 should make memory compatibility no worse at launch.

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Former Main system: Asus Maximus VIII Hero, i7-6700k, Noctua D14, G.Skill Ripjaws V 3200 2x8GB, Gigabyte GTX 1650, Corsair HX750i, In Win 303 NVIDIA, Samsung SM951 512GB, WD Blue 1TB, Acer RT280k 4k60 FreeSync [link]
Gaming laptop: Asus FX503VD, i5-7300HQ, DDR4 2133 2x8GB, GTX 1050, Sandisk 256GB + 480GB SSD [link]


 

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2 minutes ago, imreloadin said:

Yeah, you and everyone else bought the cheaper non-X SKU. I can see why AMD would want to hold that back until later as I know I'd do that in their position. Did everyone forget that AMD is a business and will make decisions based upon what will bring them the most revenue?!?!? Everyone expects that out of Intel but yet still seem to think AMD is like their bro or something. When they make decisions they're not doing it just to "do you a favor", they're doing it to make money.

 

So what you most likely have is AMD trying to sell more of their X SKUs by holding back the cheaper non-X SKUs, Sure, you may not go and buy it but that doesn't mean nobody else will. They'll want the newest CPU, look at what is available, and buy the one from that selection that meets their needs the best. Then after however much time passes, AMD releases the non-X SKU CPUs and then you and everyone else who felt like waiting can buy them.

 

Yes, that's what AMD want and what it's likely better for them. None is arguing against that. 

But for end consumer, current pricing is quite a bit worse compared to last launches. I am and majority of others here is end consumer, not AMD. End consumer should stand for what's best to them, not a corporate.

 

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AMD accidentally revealling 5900XT and 5950XT already?  end notes slide for AMD shows references to it.  maybe I am missing something here, but I'm looking at about 20:47 into .GamersNexus video

 

apologies if someone else already mentioned it, I did search and saw nothign on it

Rock On!

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