Three times the charm - New AMD CPU announcement + big Navi Teaser

[Kongoloxiii]

Any news on how many memory channels? dual or quad?

 

So far they only specify speed and type.

[SFFDesigns]

4 minutes ago, Kongoloxiii said:

Any news on how many memory channels? dual or quad?

 

So far they only specify speed and type.

It's going to be dual channel most likely, its a consumer CPU

[JuztBe]

6 minutes ago, imreloadin said:

This is what kills me about all the complaining here. It's like the Ryzen 5000 series isn't going to JUST be 4 CPUs

Yet here everyone is losing their shit comparing the 3600 to the 5600X...The X SKUs were never worth the price premium from a cost/performance perspective, even within the same generation.

 

Everyone just needs to chill the fuck out, the non-X SKUs will be here eventually.

 

18 minutes ago, Blademaster91 said:

It's really not much different than when the Ryzen 3000 series came out, 3xxx cpu's had a performance improvment, and much better IMC, but 2xxx cpu's were a much better value.

You compared a non-X cpu to the X sku cpu, not really a fair comparison price wise, I don't like the $50 pricing increase however I understand AMD is going to price their product higher if they can get close or beat Intel at performance.

I really don't see people complain about Intel pricing even though they've been using 14nm+++++++++++++++++++ and always require a new socket.

It's very fair. 3600 came out right at launch day, it instantly became one of the best value CPU. X skews from the very start were much worse value wise.

So we compare as it is today. Not some hypotetical "in 6 months, they'll release new CPU and it will be better". When (and if) non X skews is going to be released, then  we can compare them. 

After all, what matters is performance and value parts offer, not if a model number has X at the end. 

[porina]

3 minutes ago, imreloadin said:

Everyone just needs to chill the fuck out, the non-X SKUs will be here eventually.

The 1600 was available at launch. The 2600 was available at launch. The 3600 was available at launch. I know as I got all three within days of launch. What we have is a departure from past behaviour. I guess we can't rule out the possibility they will go shortly before launch, "oh BTW here's the rest of the stack also" but I'm not holding my breath for it.

 

In case it is handy, I tried to compile a table of models aligned by model number, ignoring generation number. I got lazy and took the numbers for older gen from Wikipedia without further checking, so let me know if any are out and I'll edit.

 

Model	MSRP USD	Model	MSRP USD	Model	MSRP USD	Model	MSRP USD
5950X	799	3950X	749
5900X	549	3900X	499
5800X	449	3800X	399			1800X	499
		3700X	329	2700X	329	1700X	399
				2700	299	1700	329
5600X	299	3600X	249	2600X	229	1600X	249
		3600	199	2600	199	1600	219

 

 

[porina]

7 minutes ago, Kongoloxiii said:

Any news on how many memory channels? dual or quad?

It has to be dual channel since they are not changing socket or mobos.

[DildorTheDecent]

Hope the "Zen2 IMC" is more like Renoir and not Matisse. 2000MHz+ FCLK would be tasty.

[Random_Person1234]

If AMD releases an XT variant of the 5600 or 5700 it's going to be the exact name of their Navi GPUs.

[justpoet]

I see lots of good, a couple meh, and some wash.

 

First, the simplified sku stack of only 4 parts.  I think this is actually good except for needing 1 more lower end more budget part.  If I were a betting man though, I'd bet they intend to fill that spot with an RDNA based APU (thus the REAL reason to move to 5000 vs the 4000 naming, to stomp over the top of 4000 APU naming) to make it a single chip good option for 1080p gaming and NUC style systems.  I believe the reason for non-X sku's existing for prior versions were lower yields and the binning that results from that, which aren't an issue now that they've gotten 7nm down pat and also do binning down the process stack (note the boost frequencies), which they likely believe to be enough for the yields they are getting.  We will have to see though.

 

Second, price creep.  If we compare to the replaced part names, the price creep really isn't that bad, and still puts them under intel in almost all cases.  I don't like it, but comparing to the non-x versions isn't fair.  Also, keep in mind the launch timing.  This is immediately before black friday.  I expect an initial batch to sell out at this price, a 2nd batch to come in at the same price, and then black friday sales to knock off 50 bucks, and then keep a 25 buck or so overall price increase after the fact.  That would actually be super reasonable and play to the strengths of both hype and the ongoing value proposition.

 

Third, the IO die hasn't changed.  This is nice in that no new boards/chipsets are needed to take full advantage of the chip.  DDR5 really isn't mainstream ready yet, nor would we expect to see desktop motherboards be the first with it.  It also wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility to have Zen4 almost ready, but decide to make a 3+ with just an updated IO die and put them all on the next socket.  From a business perspective, this really makes a lot of sense.  It would've been nice to see a little better official memory speed support though.

 

This fundamentally isn't a change in the package, but a change in the processing chiplet.  This ties into equal gains that should then be expected in any Threadripper and Epyc lineups.

 

I like it overall, but will wait for initial price to settle, and third party reviews, to see if I bother getting one to slap into my B450 APU based server down the road…probably closer to when Zen4 is about to hit.

[Zandvliet]

29 minutes ago, cj09beira said:

asus did announce a small refresh for a few boards others might do the same before the cpus are on sale

https://www.overclock3d.net/news/cpu_mainboard/asus_rog_reveals_two_new_zen_3_ready_motherboards_-_the_dark_hero_and_strix_xe_gaming/1

Ah thanks, I missed that. I'll keep a look out for other brands.

[wall03]

when 5600 non x variant

[Kongoloxiii]

7 minutes ago, Hymenopus_Coronatus said:

It's going to be dual channel most likely, its a consumer CPU

bummer  

was hoping for a quad channel for my new build.. build will wait for official specs.

[wall03]

also noticed that they didn't have Zen+ different from Zen in the slides most of the time.

[justpoet]

1 minute ago, Kongoloxiii said:

bummer  

was hoping for a quad channel for my new build.. build will wait for official specs.

Same IO die as 3000 series.  Same memory channels.  More channels are where Threadripper has historically come into play.  I'd expect those coming soon too, though they didn't announce them at a gamer specific keynote.

[imreloadin]

5 minutes ago, porina said:

The 1600 was available at launch. The 2600 was available at launch. The 3600 was available at launch. I know as I got all three within days of launch. What we have is a departure from past behaviour.

Yeah, you and everyone else bought the cheaper non-X SKU. I can see why AMD would want to hold that back until later as I know I'd do that in their position. Did everyone forget that AMD is a business and will make decisions based upon what will bring them the most revenue?!?!? Everyone expects that out of Intel but yet still seem to think AMD is like their bro or something. When they make decisions they're not doing it just to "do you a favor", they're doing it to make money.

 

So what you most likely have is AMD trying to sell more of their X SKUs by holding back the cheaper non-X SKUs, Sure, you may not go and buy it but that doesn't mean nobody else will. They'll want the newest CPU, look at what is available, and buy the one from that selection that meets their needs the best. Then after however much time passes, AMD releases the non-X SKU CPUs and then you and everyone else who felt like waiting can buy them.

 

[frontliner]

5 hours ago, kewtz said:

I mentioned this in LTT Discord...I've been waiting for 6 months it seems for the "right time" to upgrade...

Had to wait for new Ryzen, then new Nvidia, then new Ryzen again...but I can't get the new Nvidia for another few months.
By that point it will be wait for new Intel?

 

I'm hoping to see better single thread performance, overall.

IPC increases are also nice.

Whats another 2 years, you've been waiting almost a decade by the specs of your computer! (just pull the pin now and upgrade)

[GDRRiley]

9 minutes ago, Kongoloxiii said:

was hoping for a quad channel for my new build.. build will wait for official specs.

if you need quad for bandwidth or capacity go get threadripper. next gen threadripper should be out soon.

[BlueChinchillaEatingDorito]

Have they finally fixed the RAM compatibility issues with Ryzen? 

[porina]

4 minutes ago, imreloadin said:

Everyone expects that out of Intel but yet still seem to think AMD is like their bro or something. When they make decisions they're not doing it just to "do you a favor", they're doing it to make money.

I agree with you, but this is AMD's own making though. They have positioned themselves there with recent previous gen products. Now they have to shift that perception. Look at the B450 and Zen 3 compatibility thing. I think their original decision not to support it was the right one, but their vocal customers disagreed and forced a change. I almost don't want to buy AMD because it'll be like associating myself with that group of idiots.

[porina]

4 minutes ago, BlueChinchillaEatingDorito said:

Have they finally fixed the RAM compatibility issues with Ryzen? 

With previous generations it took many bios updates before it got ok. However this time around, if they're not changing the IOD then the ram interface is essentially unchanged also. We don't know for sure that is the case, but it seems likely. So, all the work going on with Zen 2 should make memory compatibility no worse at launch.

[JuztBe]

2 minutes ago, imreloadin said:

Yeah, you and everyone else bought the cheaper non-X SKU. I can see why AMD would want to hold that back until later as I know I'd do that in their position. Did everyone forget that AMD is a business and will make decisions based upon what will bring them the most revenue?!?!? Everyone expects that out of Intel but yet still seem to think AMD is like their bro or something. When they make decisions they're not doing it just to "do you a favor", they're doing it to make money.

 

So what you most likely have is AMD trying to sell more of their X SKUs by holding back the cheaper non-X SKUs, Sure, you may not go and buy it but that doesn't mean nobody else will. They'll want the newest CPU, look at what is available, and buy the one from that selection that meets their needs the best. Then after however much time passes, AMD releases the non-X SKU CPUs and then you and everyone else who felt like waiting can buy them.

 

Yes, that's what AMD want and what it's likely better for them. None is arguing against that. 

But for end consumer, current pricing is quite a bit worse compared to last launches. I am and majority of others here is end consumer, not AMD. End consumer should stand for what's best to them, not a corporate.

 

[BroliviaWilde]

AMD accidentally revealling 5900XT and 5950XT already?  end notes slide for AMD shows references to it.  maybe I am missing something here, but I'm looking at about 20:47 into .GamersNexus video

 

apologies if someone else already mentioned it, I did search and saw nothign on it

[TOMPPIX]

 

Spoiler

[BlueChinchillaEatingDorito]

8 minutes ago, porina said:

With previous generations it took many bios updates before it got ok. However this time around, if they're not changing the IOD then the ram interface is essentially unchanged also. We don't know for sure that is the case, but it seems likely. So, all the work going on with Zen 2 should make memory compatibility no worse at launch.

I'm planning to upgrade but this might be the one reason why I won't go Ryzen unless they resolve it. If I get 16GB now and want to upgrade to 24GB later rather than all the way up to 32GB, I'm affraid I won't be able to do that with Ryzen. Then there's the hassle of building it the first time. I've never had RAM issues with Intel platforms and that doesn't seem to be common theme here either. But with Ryzen... oh boy it's a daily occurrence. 

[wall03]

2 minutes ago, BroliviaWilde said:

apologies if someone else already mentioned it, I did search and saw nothign on it

no, they announced it

[Random_Person1234]

5 minutes ago, wall03 said:

no, they announced it

That's the X not the XT.