Three times the charm - New AMD CPU announcement + big Navi Teaser

[aisle9]

$450 for the same core count and node as the 3700X.

 

 Looks like I’m buying a 3700X for my upgrade.

[imreloadin]

1 minute ago, Bombastinator said:

True.  As a price performance buyer though it means I may be ignoring zen3.  I will go where price/performance is.  I don’t need top speed, I need adequate functionality.  The most interesting thing I’ve heard recently is a claim that the ps5 cpu is 2700 equivalent, which drops it lower than previous estimates and brings fast 6/12 up again.  Dunno how true it is.  We likely won’t know till we know.

They're still giving more value than the increase in price. I haven't watched it yet but I saw a couple of people throwing around a 19% IPC increase and they only increased the price by 12% so you're still getting more for your money than you did with the 3800X when it launched.

[Blademaster91]

5 minutes ago, Teddy07 said:

but these people should not buy a expensive cpu in the first place when they can´t afford ~50 Euro for a halfway decent cooler

True, i'm just saying the extra 50 Euro or $50 could go towards a better motherboard or RAM. 

[Bombastinator]

6 minutes ago, TOMPPIX said:

Ummmm if the Rx 6000 borderlands 3 benchmark is true then it should be on par or even better than a 3080

 

Which means it would need to be sold as a 3070.  Remember the 3080 and 3090 are the same chip. The only way AMD could sell at 3080 levels is if they can beat a 3090. If they can’t they’ll have to go a step down.  They may not do it though in which case Nvidia will do a rx6xxx beater 3080ti and AMD will be in the same position they always are.

[Ginger Penguin]

The lack of the stock cooler in the higher end ones does bug me a bit. I know you really shouldn't use it but it was a nice value add. Removing that and putting the price up seems a bit much. But from a marketing standpoint, they're not really going to change prices in increments other than $50 so I don't know what they could have done and it makes perfect business sense to try and capitalise on their increased market share.

[Suika]

8 minutes ago, MageTank said:

Well, I am bummed to say that it's still the same IMC from Ryzen 3000. The 12nm IO die has not changed at all. The PPR was only really relevant for the EPYC series. The cache improvements might still play a huge part in overall memory latency, but I wouldn't expect anything to change with actual memory overclocking.

One thing I was super curious about was how infinity fabric plays a roll with Zen 3 processors 8 cores and below. If it's a single CCD rather than two CCXs, does infinity fabric mean much and have to be coupled with memory clocks? Or am I not understanding infinity fabric's roll and involvement with memory at all lol

[tim0901]

15 minutes ago, TOMPPIX said:

Ummmm if the Rx 6000 borderlands 3 benchmark is true then it should be on par or even better than a 3080

Wouldn't make such conclusions on a single value. Borderlands 3 contains AMD technology and as such runs better on their architecture - it's a very cherry-picked result. Also at 73fps Gears 5 runs worse on the Rx 6000 than on a 3080... (I couldn't find reputable numbers for COD:MW on a 3080 to compare against).

 

As always, wait for independent reviews.

[Hairless Monkey Boy]

1 hour ago, Shally said:

is the 5600X supposed to beat 3700x? 

Was thinking the same since both are ~$300. Pretty confident with themselves I guess.

 

Was also thinking, is the 5600X ($300) 25% better than the 3600XT($240)?

[Bombastinator]

11 minutes ago, imreloadin said:

They're still giving more value than the increase in price. I haven't watched it yet but I saw a couple of people throwing around a 19% IPC increase and they only increased the price by 12% so you're still getting more for your money than you did with the 3800X when it launched.

It’s a question of whether I need it though. My only concern is getting console equivalent  performance.  Anything more than that is worth very very little to me. If I can do that with a 3700x it’s all I personally need. I’m near totally uninterested in 8k gaming, and I’m not sure I’m even interested in 4k.  Might do 4k for compatibility.  More than 1440p@90 for me at least is diminishing returns. 2x 1440p@90 might be handy for VR I suppose. Assuming VR even gets that far.

[rcmaehl]

At least SOMEONE agrees with me.

[BroliviaWilde]

56 minutes ago, porina said:

Missed this earlier. In short, I don't consider my Zen 2 system to be stable enough for something as important as gaming. I never got to the bottom of it after extensive testing and diagnosis including both reinstalls and swapping other hardware around. There is no pattern to it, sometimes it just decides it doesn't want to work any more. I suspect a contributing factor might be I'm using an X370 mobo with a 3700X. It would have been funny to put an RTX 3070 in it too...

that's interesting,I had suspected x370 might have stability issues with the newer cpu's but never took time to research into it that much.  So to be on safe side I got an x470 taichi to pair up with a 3900x(on that launch day), I've left everything at stock and only turned on PBO and xmp profile to 3600.  Only issues i've ever had have all been Windows 10 related.   Have you considered getting a newer gen Mobo?

 

 

[Bombastinator]

4 minutes ago, rcmaehl said:

At least SOMEONE agrees with me.

Encouraging, but reveals are all about marketingspeak. Might be broadly true or only very very narrowly true.   I’m calling everything “claims” until independently verified.  There have been too many cryings of wolf over the years. 

[Ginger Penguin]

I was wondering one thing about the test bench specs listed at the end. The GPU was a 2080 Ti which seemed odd to me given I'd have expected them to use their own GPUs. I'm guessing one of the reasons they went that route was to keep details about the 6000 series under wraps but then why not use one of their ones from last gen? Obviously the 2080 Ti is going to be able to give them numerically higher numbers but if both benches are the same save for motherboard and CPU, the percentages are likely to be pretty much the same, right?

[WereCat]

3 hours ago, MageTank said:

Just bought myself a 4400mhz C16 kit as an early birthday present, just in time for the release of Zen 3. I really hope the IMC on these are fun to play with so I can finally retire my 8700k to a life of easy ITX light work. The rumors of dual unified memory controllers on Zen 3 definitely have me excited.

According to GN the IMC is exactly the same as Zen 2 and also the I/O die is the same one, he has this info directly from AMD rep

[AvMaverick]

3 hours ago, kewtz said:

..but I can't get the new Nvidia for another few months.

Wait for the new Radeon!

 

[GDRRiley]

can't wait for 3900x to go on fire sales. I don't need the increase in speed given I'm at 1440p but more cores

common 250-300$ 12 cores. it isn't the amazing deal I got on my 2700x earlier this year at just 170 but not bad.

[RejZoR]

My main concern is, with no new chipset and motherboards, how is with building a new system. I'd go with Ryzen 9 3900X, same 32GB RAM I have now, just a lot faster and X570 motherboard. Question here is, how to update old mobo for new CPU without having old supporte CPU? Do they still boot and work in bare minimum mode just so you can flash new BIOS or do you strictly need some old supported CPU to do that? I know some mobos have CPU-less operation mode, I think it was Gigabyte that can bypass that problem, but what about otherwise?

[kewtz]

1 hour ago, Bombastinator said:

I agree totally about actual independent  benchmarks.  We’ve seen how far from reality marketing hype can stray.  though atm I’m leaning toward 3700x.  I don’t need “fastest” I just need “fast enough and functional”

It will depend heavily on benchmarks and what 3700x pricing is like.  If I can get a 10700k that will hit 5.0 reliably I could do that too.  It will depend on which is cheaper. 

I do need to keep remembering, just because the latest and greatest came out, the Zen2 stuff isn't "bad" or "obsolete" by any stretch.

A 3900x was and is a great offering, and if the price dropped sub-$400 USD that would be a great deal imo.

[Hairless Monkey Boy]

Remember, remember the fifth of November the AMD CPUs drop.

 

I know of no reason this CPU season could ever be a flop!

[MageTank]

57 minutes ago, Suika said:

One thing I was super curious about was how infinity fabric plays a roll with Zen 3 processors 8 cores and below. If it's a single CCD rather than two CCXs, does infinity fabric mean much and have to be coupled with memory clocks? Or am I not understanding infinity fabric's roll and involvement with memory at all lol

I'd wager it'd still be pretty significant as it impacts everything tied to the uncore (PCIe subdomain, SATA controllers, USB controllers, etc) not just your memory controller, but I could also be wrong as well. Zen 3 is technically a very different design from its predecessors so until I get my sample, I won't really know. 

 

36 minutes ago, WereCat said:

According to GN the IMC is exactly the same as Zen 2 and also the I/O die is the same one, he has this info directly from AMD rep

Thanks for the heads up, I'll have to give it a watch as I trust Steve's sources given his track record. 

[Bombastinator]

8 minutes ago, W.D. Stevens said:

I was wondering one thing about the test bench specs listed at the end. The GPU was a 2080 Ti which seemed odd to me given I'd have expected them to use their own GPUs. I'm guessing one of the reasons they went that route was to keep details about the 6000 series under wraps but then why not use one of their ones from last gen? Obviously the 2080 Ti is going to be able to give them numerically higher numbers but if both benches are the same save for motherboard and CPU, the percentages are likely to be pretty much the same, right?

Weird misleading marketing based choices are pretty common with “reveal” events.  We shall see what we shall see when they become available.  It is very likely to turn out there was a specific reason.  All I’m taking from the “reveal” is “chips exist and have gone gold.  They can be  made to look like they behave in this particular way”.  Whether this is a good indication of how they actually act is unknown but historically hasn’t been very likely.

[cj09beira]

1 hour ago, Gamer Schnitzel said:

I find it disgusting how many people here are crying about price and you can see in their signatures that they have Zen 2 chips. You being too poor to upgrade every gen doesn't mean prices are too high.

Prices are completely fine.

i agree, except for the 5600x, on that one 50 bucks is quite a bit

1 hour ago, rcmaehl said:

It's the same price as before plus $50. I'm amazed anyone has an issue with this increase for a significantly better CPU

on the low end its a bit much, on the other ones sure

1 hour ago, tim0901 said:

Another way of squeezing more money from early adopters. Nobody bought the 3800X as it was $70 more (at MSRP) than the 3700X with a negligible performance uplift. This time by only releasing the 5800X they get the benefit of it seeming like there's only a $50 price hike over the previous generation, when in actuality it's a $120 price hike vs the sensible sku people actually bought. It's pure deception.

 

I'd expect to see the 5700X arrive eventually, but not for a while. Wait for the early adopters to pay sweet $, then release it later as a better value chip to rake in even more.

i would bet dezember- january and we will get the rest of the lineup

1 hour ago, Bombastinator said:

AMD was always price/performance.  If they’re abandoning that there are going to be complaints.

all they try to do is to have better perf/dollar than the competition, this doesn't change that, they simply didn't give us a bone.

1 hour ago, hollyh88 said:

the thing is tho.. 3700x launch 320-330 price. 8 core. 5800x also 8 core but 450 bucks........ i would have bought the 8 core 5800x if it was 300-370 but it aint. a mobo plus cpu combo with a new 8 core would cost you 700 bucks. SEVEN HUNDRED BUCKS. thats high

there should be lower end parts coming, they need them to be able to use all their mediocre yielding parts

38 minutes ago, MageTank said:

Well, I am bummed to say that it's still the same IMC from Ryzen 3000. The 12nm IO die has not changed at all. The PPR was only really relevant for the EPYC series. The cache improvements might still play a huge part in overall memory latency, but I wouldn't expect anything to change with actual memory overclocking.

zen 2's imc is already quite good, and there is always the chance that they improved something just by tweaking the imc's microcode, after all that is what zen + was

[cj09beira]

6 minutes ago, RejZoR said:

My main concern is, with no new chipset and motherboards, how is with building a new system. I'd go with Ryzen 9 3900X, same 32GB RAM I have now, just a lot faster and X570 motherboard. Question here is, how to update old mobo for new CPU without having old supporte CPU? Do they still boot and work in bare minimum mode just so you can flash new BIOS or do you strictly need some old supported CPU to do that? I know some mobos have CPU-less operation mode, I think it was Gigabyte that can bypass that problem, but what about otherwise?

asus just announced a few new boards with support for zen 3, i expect others to do similarly 

[Delicieuxz]

Isn't the price increase just 50 USD over Zen 2 MSRP?

 

3600X - $249

3800X - $399

3900X - $499

 

5600X - $299

5800X - $449

5900X - $549

 

Price increases suck, but that seems like a modest increase to me, given how good a deal Zen 2 reportedly was, and that Zen 3 supposedly offers a 19% IPC increase, a 2x decrease of memory latency, 105 TDP (for the 5800X and 5900X), and the fastest single-core performance among consumer CPUs.

 

AMD likely priced Zen 2 attractively to bolster their market share and brand reputation, planning to make more profit from future CPU generations. The Zen 2 prices might have been subsidized through that planning.

[porina]

23 minutes ago, BroliviaWilde said:

Have you considered getting a newer gen Mobo?

If I got Zen 3 I'd get a new mobo with it. It already kinda annoys me I don't get PCIe 4.0 with my 3700X even though I don't have any need for it.

 

13 minutes ago, W.D. Stevens said:

I was wondering one thing about the test bench specs listed at the end. The GPU was a 2080 Ti which seemed odd to me given I'd have expected them to use their own GPUs.

It's simpler than that. If you want to show how good a CPU is at gaming, you don't want the GPU to be the limit. So you have to use the fastest GPU you can, which is the 2080Ti. I know the 3080 and 3090 are now a thing, but they are too new for this usage.