SFF2: Electric Bugaloo... The PlayStation 2 build!

[Ross Siggers]

So here we are again...
Six or so months ago, I finished my first small form factor build; a gaming rig inside an Dreamcast shell. It was an...interesting learning curve, with non-standard components I wasn't used to using, and a LOT of dremel work. But obviously now I have to go bigger and better, and having done SFF, I've got to try something else I've not done....enter water cooling  

 

THE PLAN

• Of course, the case. We've got the classic...the one...the only...the FAT PS2. Roughly 3.8L in size.
• The last system was Intel based, so for that reason alone I'm going to make this an AMD build.
• The graphics card will hopefully be more powerful, I'm looking at a 1080, or a 2060S.
• Ram, 16Gb. That's an easy one.
• Storange size unknown, but it'll be M.2.
• Watercooling, obviously...I'd like the CPU and GPU both to be in the loop if at all feasible.
• As with the Dreamcast, from the front I want it to be as sleeper as possible. only the keen eye should be able to tell what's inside...

 

 

[Ross Siggers]

Link to my Dreamcast SFF thread here on LTT

A much shorter summary of the Dreamcast build, on SFFnetwork

[Helpful Tech Witch]

i didnt know they made amd stx  boards.

[jaslion]

6 minutes ago, HelpfulTechWizard said:

i didnt know they made amd stx  boards.

The deskminis from asrock and that is about it.

[Helpful Tech Witch]

2 minutes ago, jaslion said:

The deskminis from asrock and that is about it.

yeah, there seem to be a lot more from intel. I was looking at turning my main sleeper (sig) into a mini sleeper, and i didnt see any amd when I just did "stx motherboard" on newegg.

[jaslion]

19 minutes ago, Ross Siggers said:

So here we are again...
Six or so months ago, I finished my first small form factor build; a gaming rig inside an Dreamcast shell. It was an...interesting learning curve, with some non-standard components I was used to using, and a LOT of dremel work. But obviously now I have to go bigger and better, and having done SFF, I've got to try something else I've not done....enter water cooling  

 

THE PLAN

• Of course, the case. We've got the classic...the one...the only...the FAT PS2. Roughly 3.8L in size.
• The last system was Intel based, so for that reason alone I'm going to make this an AMD build.
• The graphics card will hopefully be more powerful, I'm looking at a 1080, or a 2060S.
• Ram, 16Gb. That's an easy one.
• Storange size unknown, but it'll be M.2.
• Watercooling, obviously...I'd like the CPU and GPU both to be in the loop if at all feasible.
• As with the Dreamcast, from the front I want it to be as sleeper as possible. only the keen eye should be able to tell what's inside...

 

 

You may actually want a blower card. The rx 5700 has a pretty good blower style cooler so does the reference 1080 but that thing is usually more expensive than a 1080. Unless you plan on giving the ps2 some feet or make it stand in the stand then any cooler should do.

 

Watercooling both would be nigh impossible due to rad sizes. What may actually work is one of those odd size 200mm thin rads with a thin 200mm fan.

[Ross Siggers]

14 minutes ago, jaslion said:

The deskminis from asrock and that is about it.

Bingo...that's exactly what I bought, but I was going to elaborate in a later post. Back when I made the Dreamcast there were 2 available Intel boards, and one was out of stock everywhere. The AM4 based Deskmini was actually released halfway through that project.

 

11 minutes ago, jaslion said:

You may actually want a blower card. The rx 5700 has a pretty good blower style cooler so does the reference 1080 but that thing is usually more expensive than a 1080. Unless you plan on giving the ps2 some feet or make it stand in the stand then any cooler should do.

 

Watercooling both would be nigh impossible due to rad sizes. What may actually work is one of those odd size 200mm thin rads with a thin 200mm fan.

You don't know if you don't try, there are a lot of factors at play here that you might not be thinking of  That's the beauty of incredibly custom SFF builds like this, the layout is entirely in my hands.

[jaslion]

6 minutes ago, Ross Siggers said:

You don't know if you don't try, there are a lot of factors at play here that you might not be thinking of  That's the beauty of incredibly custom SFF builds like this, the layout is entirely in my hands.

My thought process would be to put all the components at the top, delete the back of the ps2 and make it all mesh and basicaly the point where the ps2 dents inwards (where the hdd is located) would just be rad + fans that are pulling air out of the system. Plus some taller rubber feet to prevent fan chocking.

And as a cool bonus the ps2 stand integrate it into the design and make a usb hub + sound in and out out of one of the legs to aid the 2 front usb ports that may or may not be accessible due to the rad.

 

I've personally always just love the look of the stand with the ps2 it just works so well with pulling the logo down into the foot of the console really making it take presence and attention in the room it is in.

[Ross Siggers]

@jaslionTo be honest, you're almost there with the broad strokes... I think? When you refer to top are you talking about the longer section, or the literal top? because I want the console standing. Without the stand though, personally I think they look sort of tacky  I'm looking at three plausible layouts right now; 

 

- main boards in the larger half of the console

- both at the TOP...that is when the console is standing

- staggered, one in the larger half, one in the smaller

I was thinking along the lines of under volting, using a Pico, things like that. But quite the opposite to a normal build(and my previous sff), I may actually have to choose my graphics card FIRST because that dictates so many things.

[divito]

Does the Deskmini have a connector for graphics? Or are you planning to use the M.2?

[Ross Siggers]

14 hours ago, divito said:

Does the Deskmini have a connector for graphics? Or are you planning to use the M.2?

I would have to use an M.2 adapter, but thankfully this board actually has dual connectors so I'm not limiting myself when it comes to on-board storage  

[Ross Siggers]

After a lot of umming and aahing about what setup to go with the radiators, I think I've found the solution;

I initially wanted to use normal format radiators, just the thin ones that're available. The ones that're sub-30mm deep without fans, and blowing out the large, flat area on the back wall of the console. But that wasn't as simple as I imagined, I could fit a single 140...but a 240 wouldn't quite fit height wise. And any more unorthodox fan-size like an twin-80mm, or 92's, weren't available with 'thin' options. Unless someone can link me to something I've missed...

So the plan is to go with server radiators.  Alphacool do some crazy radiators designed for 1U server racks, that're deep at 45mm and utilise small 40mm fans! So...using a Penta(five)-fan radiator, and Noctua A4x20's...I should be able to keep this thing Cool, and actually relatively quiet. The 20mm deep version of the Noctua A4 actually manages to push a tiny bit more air, and be quieter than the 10mm deep variant. Instead of exhausting out of the large flat area on the wall of the console, the radiators will actually be exhausting out the actual back. 

A little more thought has gone into components too. I'm going to follow a similar approach to the Dreamcast build, with an external brick and a 200W internal pico-psu powering the GPU only. The way it works is the power is split into two once it enters the computer, with a direct feed going straight to the motherboard, and the second going to the pico. This way, the rating of the pico only has to be high enough for the graphics card, the real limit on power is the ac-dc external brick sending the feed. I wanted an all enclosed solution, but it was either that, or have space for radiators. Power wise, I may step to a regular 2060 not a super, and stick with the Ryzen 2200G that my Deskmini came equipped with. 

There's talk online that ASRock released(then retracted) a stable bios to make the Deskmini A300 support Ryzen 4000 series, so I'll likely move to a newer chip down the line after the build is complete  But the 2200G is adequate for now, so that's one less part to purchase!

 

[Ross Siggers]

So I always liked the PS2 design, where it looked like slats around the edge... But it wasn't actually. Well, I'm not going to get trapped in the same thermal corner as I was with the Dreamcast, so I decided to hollow out slots in the top of the console. This part is only a vanity cover so not too structural, and I'll be honest it's still surprisingly rigid after trimming. Cuts will be tidied up at a later date. 

 

 

 

A couple of my Noctua fans also came in. This gives me an idea of how far through the central spine the radiator will protrude, and therefore, if I have to mount the motherboard against the central partition, or inverse. Looks like it'll have to be inverse! 

 

 

 

Obviously more detailed measurements and layout choices will be made soon, I'm also having to reconsider my graphics card, not for power but for size. The cards I was looking at come in mini configurations, but for some manufacturers they're still not that mini. To fit in the PS2 they have to be 170mm absolute max... Which limits me to the Zotac 1080 and the Gigabyte 2060. 

 

[Belac F]

19 hours ago, Ross Siggers said:

To fit in the PS2 they have to be 170mm absolute max... Which limits me to the Zotac 1080 and the Gigabyte 2060. 

 

I found an rtx 2070 mini from gigabyte, same size as the 2060.

 

https://www.gigabyte.com/ca/Graphics-Card/GV-N2070IX-8GC#kf

 

I currently use the 2060 version in my xbox build. Its a little loud but it gets the job done.

[Ross Siggers]

@Belac F Hmmm interesting. I'll have to look into that, and water blocks of course. I think I'll want to have a little shaped bump in the mesh at the rear of the case, juuuust to give myself a little leeway length wise.

 

I need to get myself sorted and buy the radiator, I can't really mock up much without it, and unfortunately it's not cheap! Like £80....you can get 360 rads cheaper than that! 

[Belac F]

On 10/24/2020 at 4:57 AM, Ross Siggers said:

@Belac F Hmmm interesting. I'll have to look into that, and water blocks of course. I think I'll want to have a little shaped bump in the mesh at the rear of the case, juuuust to give myself a little leeway length wise.

 

I need to get myself sorted and buy the radiator, I can't really mock up much without it, and unfortunately it's not cheap! Like £80....you can get 360 rads cheaper than that! 

yeah! Id say water cooling is the way to go, mine is only a 2060 and the fans get LOUD. 

 

Also sorry for the late reply lol. 

 

What I really want to do is build a PS5 build with a 3080... But I cant afford a ps5 or a 3080 lol

[Ross Siggers]

So I did browse parts for a while back, but put this project on the backburner due to parts cost...£100+ a piece, for the GPU waterblock, CPU block, and radiator? Shit, I'm tentative on dropping so much cash at the mock-up stage.

 

But I did find a solution to my worries regarding the cpu block; I was originally planning on using an Eisbaer LT, a pump/block combo with the ports on the side, not the top. Turns out that even though it's a low profile option, it's still too tall. I wanted the block to be the same height or near as possible to the ram sticks. Without using a separate pump and reservoir, that's very hard.

 

but I had a revelation....AIO's. They often have compact blocks, whilst maintaining a pump. They also often have side mounted, swivel fittings depending on model, so that's a bonus as well. I ended up picking up a used Gen.1 H100i for mock-up and... potential dismantling I figured anything capable of pushing a 240rad should in theory be capable of handling my loop. And on the used market it only cost me £30, a fraction of what the Eisbaer would have.

 

hopefully I'm onto something, as going off product specifications it's already 7mm shallower than the Eisbaer. It sits just above the ram, which does mean I'll need to clearance a hole in the internals of the PS2. But this is much more preferable than the previous plan

 

 

 

 

[Ross Siggers]

So I bit the bullet and bought the radiator I wanted, the Alphacool NexXxos UT60 penta(5) fan version.

 

I've also started hacking away at the internal structure of the PS2; Dremel, pliers etc, at the moment it's not a very exact art. And if I'm honest, I see myself taking as much of the middle layer out as possible, and putting in a metal sheet to replace it, for more rigidity.

 

Amazingly, I've managed to find a 2060 that's  REALLY SMALL...only as long as the pci-e slot(145mm). I didn't think there were any RTX cards that size on the market, but apparently I was wrong. And despite this card not having any official water cooling accessories, it looks like Bykski make a block, that should fit it at least some of the mounting holes. That's going to be interesting to work out eh! 

 

The abhorrent, money spending stage has begun in earnest

 

 

[Ross Siggers]

£££**KACHING**£££

GRAPHICS CARD PURCHASED. I think this one part cost the same as all the components of my last build put together... Although I knew this build wasn't going to be as cheap, so that's okay I suppose. It was on eBay which is why I didn't share the details, but now I can happily do that

It's a Palit 2060 'StormX'. Standard 6gb of memory, but like I mentioned before, it's the only 'slot length' RTX card I've found. All the others I was looking at were ITX classified, but halfway between that and full size. Even better, all the I/O is single slot in height, which wasn't essential for this build, but it's a tidy nice-to-have feature. According to the advert, this one came from a prebuilt systems, and despite there being quite a few websites listing it for sale, none have it stocked because it's discontinued.

 

As for cooler, I found a second hand Barrow ITX waterblock, lsited as 2060/2070. I've asked for specifics and more photos, so hopefully that'll do the job for the cooling side of things, and save me a few pennies off a new one. Looks in good shape, so I hope that works out.

 

[Ross Siggers]

So the seller sent me some more pictures of the GPU waterblock....looks like it won't fit; I mean, only the x4 bolt holes around the die itself will line up. I may buy it anyway, and use it for mocking up purposes. Or....I wonder if it could be modified to fit...  

 

I also removed the block from the AIO and I'm thinking that I may have clearance issues there. With the motherboard lined up with the rear edge of the case, the block would interfere with the radiator. I may have to go with a separate pump/res, and I'm not 100% sure that'll work either. Maybe some packaging may have to be reconsidered!

 

I also picked up one of the other essential parts for this build, an HDplex 200W Pico, similar to the 160W I used in my Dreamcast. Found it on the SFF Network forums, these are showing as out of stock in Europe right now. So whilst it wasn't a bargain(basically rrp), it should be here any day now.

 

[Ross Siggers]

Apologies for all the wordy posts, I don't have many parts at the moment so when they come in, hopefully I can be a bit more hands on with rear fitting stuff!

[Ross Siggers]

So my 200W Pico arrived....it's thiccc front to back...but strangely, narrower than the 160W item in my Dreamcast. I also bought the add2psu for it, not pictured. Which means even though it's designed to directly plug into a 24-pin motherboard, I'll be able to run it standalone.

 

 

 

 

Also, the heart of the build also arrived; my NexXxos radiator. It's adorable!! And seems like a quality piece. Now to start refining my cuts, and planning out exactly how it's going to sit.

 

 

 

 

[Ross Siggers]

So I did a little more trimming, and with the ram removed, and the fan from the GPU....I can test fit.

 

Thoughts; the ethernet/usb section on the motherboard makes things an extremely tight fit, width wise. Also, I'll be using low profile ram, which was going to be a 'nice to have', but it's now a necessity. The pump-block combo idea is out the window, as I don't have enough verticle height. So a universal fit, low profile block will be going on.

 

If you line the GPU up against the motherboard, there's a fair bit of space beneath it. Which is great for fitting my riser cable, and also this is where the power lead will run. I need to look into it that'll cause any interference, I should be fine if I'm careful.

 

On the subject of GPU, the Barrow waterblock didn't fit, and would be incredibly difficult to modify so I'm going down the same route as the Dreamcast build; matching coolers on both the CPU and GPU.

 

In the back(narrow) half of the case, were looking good too. There's enough space behind the radiator to mount my Pico, and in the space above, enough room for my pump. I'm going with the silent, 2600rpm version of the Alphacool DC-LT, and accompanying block because the top radiator fitting is the highest point in the loop, I may have to fit it lower down. 

 

Or...put the pump in the bottom, and the Pico in the top. Means slightly more cabling and piping, but any thoughts?

 

PICTURE TIME!!!

 

 

 

 

[Fraya]

i don't know what your trying to do here, what are you going to water cool, just the CPU?.

i have a suggestion to bend the rules a little, send off one part of the PS2 casing to someone with a 3D printer and make a new one but 25mm deeper sides, then when you re assemble it basically it give you more room to work with and not many people would know buy looking at it,  or whatever measurement you need to make things fit, obviously the small the better, you might need 5mm or 10mm

surly you could have used a m-itx m-board? slimline cooler from Noctua.  as for the GPU yes you would have to buy a riser kit and mount it on its side.  i think there is some thinking to do and its still possible to make this work, just going water cooled seems like your digging yourself a hole. 

you could also if its going to stand upright make some honeycomb cut outs in the side where the GPU is to allow air in. i am sure there is many ways to do this.

 

i like your idea to utilise something and its a heck of a challenge. 

 

a few years ago i thought about using a ammo box to make a super small but rugged m-itx gaming PC. 

 

 

 

 

[Ross Siggers]

7 hours ago, Fraya said:

I don't know what your trying to do here, what are you going to water cool, just the CPU?.

The goal is to custom loop, both the CPU and the GPU. The first post would have told you that.

 

Quote

I have a suggestion to bend the rules a little, send off one part of the PS2 casing to someone with a 3D printer and make a new one but with deeper sides, then when you re assemble it basically it give you more room to work with and not many people would know buy looking at it.

A similar idea was floated in my Dreamcast thread, that I print a scaled up version of the case...Doesn't it go against the whole point of picking a certain case to build into? The idea of SFF is if you have a size goal, you change your internal plans to work with it...you don't just 'make the case bigger'. Not to mention the people that'd be intrigued by the finished product will definitely know the proportions of a PS2, and know straight away if anything is off.
 

Quote

Surely you could have used a m-itx m-board?

I think there is some thinking to do.
Seems like your digging yourself a hole. 

 

I implore you... do a few seconds of research before telling ME that I need to do some thinking...don't be that person.

 

Two Google searches would have shown you the width of a PS2...and the width of a mini ITX board. Spoiler alert, it wouldn't work. And with ITX, the 24-pin connector, full size RAM, and PCIe slot are actually all detrimental features; An STX board gives me tons of flexibility when it comes to my packaging.

I had a lot more positive support about my last ultra-SFF build, and that was just as ambitious in a lot of ways. I wonder what changed.