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AMD is confident there won't be availability issues with the RX 6000 series when it launches

6 hours ago, Briggsy said:

yeah it wasn't that good. It matched a 970 in performance but at a stupid power draw. It also was water cooled with the cheapest Coolermaster pump available - same as the 120v AIO pump iirc. When it arrived the pump whine was so loud and obnoxious that I got rid of that card like it was carrying the plague. I've heard since then that most have died because the AIO's ran dry and couldn't be refilled. That card was my lesson never to buy at launch.

Wasn't it near or equal to the 980? If you look up benchmarks now comparing it to a 980, you can see after lots and lots of driver updates it went passed the 980 and even the 980ti. Also thanks for letting me know i have a rare specimen that is both still working and very quiet.

6 hours ago, Lord Bloobus said:

Yeah, it had huge power use, coil whine, loud as shit cooler despite the AIB, didn't surpass the similarly priced nvidia card. But damn was it an interesting idea!

these days hearing people say 275w is a lot of power is also kinda hilarious with a 3080 using 350w? I can't wait to see how much less power the Navi cards use and seeing people justify the power draw of their 3080's, or even the 3090. Their all powerful lords at Nvidia can't do anything wrong after all.

 

ps. I'm one of those people who really wants a new GPU (running this vega64 is not fun anymore), i'm waiting for the Navi benchmarks and then either going for it or a 3080... And i'll tell you right now, i'm not looking forward to getting anything that has nvidia on it....

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I'd definitely do not expect it to be bad though. Enough time before launch even, can prepare enough stock they see fit. It's not mining craze time, nor RVII limited product. 

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15 hours ago, TempestCatto said:

So you're telling me, they won't have the same bot problem?

 

|x|

i do notice some stores becoming much better with bots like 2 days ago i got a evga 3080 on newegg and the bot i was using to notify me when things go in stock didn't see it at all and the same with another 3rd party bot. so im guessing newegg has some thing to block bots from noticing when they have stock. also i fumbled a bit during checkout and 5 seconds after i checked out it was still in stock which would have been impossible with bots.

15 hours ago, Deli said:

By the time the new AMD graphics cards hit the shop. Everyone wants to upgrade their GPUs will have either 3080 or 3090 in their rigs already. :)

idk i dont think you know how hard it is to get a 3080 rn LUL. 

 

amd has several things going for them I believe their gpu has been in production longer and tsmc 7nm has much better yields than samsung 8nm. also nvidia's gpu design is inherently really hard to manufacturer i think with the huge increase in cuda cores and the probably more complex memory controller for gddr6x

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22 minutes ago, spartaman64 said:

i

idk i dont think you know how hard it is to get a 3080 rn LUL. 

 

amd has several things going for them I believe their gpu has been in production longer and tsmc 7nm has much better yields than samsung 8nm. also nvidia's gpu design is inherently really hard to manufacturer i think with the huge increase in cuda cores and the probably more complex memory controller for gddr6x

I'm not familiar with the manufacturing side of thing. However I guess AIB partners use the same production lines for both Nvidia and AMD graphics cards. The question is how much production capacity AIB partners have. The new Nvidia GPUs is having such a big hype and demand. How would you allocate your production capacity for both? Moreover, the supposed 3080 capacitor problem. Will the manufacturers need to change the design, and causing some delay? 

 

It isn't just how many chips AMD can deliver to AIB partners in time in volume. The previous record of AMD isn't exactly stellar.

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15 minutes ago, Deli said:

I'm not familiar with the manufacturing side of thing. However I guess AIB partners use the same production lines for both Nvidia and AMD graphics cards. The question is how much production capacity AIB partners have. The new Nvidia GPUs is having such a big hype and demand. How would you allocate your production capacity for both? Moreover, the supposed 3080 capacitor problem. Will the manufacturers need to change the design, and causing some delay? 

 

It isn't just how many chips AMD can deliver to AIB partners in time in volume. The previous record of AMD isn't exactly stellar.

idk i feel like its silicon production thats the bottleneck not board manufacturing because if thats the case then nvidia wouldnt be having so much trouble right now and yields from silicon wouldnt be as important to companies

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13 minutes ago, Deli said:

Moreover, the supposed 3080 capacitor problem. Will the manufacturers need to change the design, and causing some delay? 

As a minor comment on this part, a component change could cause delays. Generally speaking you don't want to hold excess inventory of components in case they are needed in future, so they plan what they need and when. If they change the capacitors to be fitted, there will be some lead time to get the new components. In small quantities, you can pay over the market rate and get them faster, but in volume at good pricing, this can be more difficult.

 

Hypothetically a manufacture may try to manage it by continuing "as planned", perhaps with minor tweaks somehow to improve things, until such time a more longer term update can be implemented.

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AMD saying nothing: "Lol, AMD's so bad, they won't even comment on availability"

AMD saying there will be decent stock at launch: "Lol, AMD's lying in order to look good" or "Lol, AMD's just saying that cause there's no demand"

AMD saying there might be delays: "Lol, AMD can't even learn from Nvidia's mistakes"

 

It doesn't matter if AMD releases a perfect product because in the minds of everyone, AMD can't be better.

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20 hours ago, HairlessMonkeyBoy said:

This doesn't necessarily mean that there will be good supply. You folks aren't looking at the other side of the equation.

 

Perhaps the demand will be low.

lol I was about to comment something to the effect of "of course they'll be in stock! Except it'll be cause nobody will wanna buy them 😂"

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AMD is confident there won't be availability issues with the launch of the RX6000. AMD must be really up there, to make that high of a claim.

If the cards are gobbled up by miners, can I sue them for making a false statement? 9_9

 

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So there are a few scenarios stemming from this.

 

  1. They are hoping that stores like Newegg will have improved their bot detection before their launch. The 30 series was kind of a wake-up call for all stores that they need better bot detection if they don't want angry customers. So hopefully things will be better at the AMD launch. Not because AMD has done anything special, but because third party resellers will have had time to improve their systems.
  2. AMD will delay the launch just so they can build up a bigger stock.
  3. Demand will be low.
    1. Most people who want a new graphics card will already have bought an Nvidia 30 series, so they won't be that many people eager to buy new cards.
    2. The cards will be so unimpressive and bad that nobody actually want to buy them.
  4. AMD's marketing team is full of shit as always. I mean, how many times have they been caught lying and deceiving again? How anyone can take anything they say seriously is beyond me at this point.

 

 

My guess is that it will be a bit of everything. Stores will have better bot detection, AMD is launching their cards fairly late, their cards won't be as impressive as Nvidia's so demand will be lower, and AMD's marketing team are just full of shit and see this as an easy way to make some empty promises to win some imaginary Internet points with their gullible fans.

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47 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

their cards won't be as impressive as Nvidia's so demand will be lower

Well, we'll see about that one. 

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33 minutes ago, BlackManINC said:

Well, we'll see about that one. 

agreed. AMD have the advantage of developers optimizing for GCN and RDNA hardware, the process node advantage, the efficiency advantage, and seemingly a head start on production as well to work out any hardware kinks. 

 

I mean, if AMD don't have something good this time with all these advantages, then maybe they need to stick to APU's and designing custom silicon for 3rd party vendors. Nvidia needs competition at the high end, not a company who's trousers keep falling down in public. Even if their top end SKU this time is 10% slower than a 3080 but they get their sh!t together with drivers, then AMD are a solid choice, while also keeping under the radar of scalpers.

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13 minutes ago, Briggsy said:

agreed. AMD have the advantage of developers optimizing for GCN and RDNA hardware, the process node advantage, the efficiency advantage, and seemingly a head start on production as well to work out any hardware kinks. 

 

I mean, if AMD don't have something good this time with all these advantages, then maybe they need to stick to APU's and designing custom silicon for 3rd party vendors. Nvidia needs competition at the high end, not a company who's trousers keep falling down in public. Even if their top end SKU this time is 10% slower than a 3080 but they get their sh!t together with drivers, then AMD are a solid choice, while also keeping under the radar of scalpers.

Right, even at 10% less FPS, fact is its still gonna be light years better than my RX 470 that was a peasant class GPU even when it first launched, and I'm planning on sticking with AMD for a number of reasons. To put things into perspective, the performance gap between the RX 5700XT and RTX 2080S was less than 30%. So if anything, we can expect AMD's top end GPU to be right up there with the RTX 3080, if the actual difference between the 3080 and 3090 only being 10-15% is any indication. The RTX 3090 is already proving itself to be even more of a rip off than the RTX 2080TI. For $800 more, the most performance boost you get is a margin of error difference. I think AMD will do just fine this time around. 

 

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you know something?

i agree. there will not be crowds of scalpers and fans buying them up.

instead, amd has deployed one of the best strategies I have ever seen, they made the damned bike so we all laugh so hard we forget to buy the cards on launch week so amd can fix any sudden issues and just say that the original problem never existed.

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23 minutes ago, Briggsy said:

AMD have the advantage of developers optimizing for GCN and RDNA hardware

Not on the PC they do not, AMD has been the console hardware provider for a long time and this has done exactly zero to get game developers to give equivalent or preferential optimization treatment for AMD. Nvidia on PC is king by a very long way and thus gets treated in the way their position commands, almost all games and game engines are optimized for Nvidia architecture, that's just how it is and will not change without multiple consecutive generations of AMD outselling Nvidia. You don't reverse over a decade of market dominance in a single generation i.e. Ryzen vs Intel.

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5 minutes ago, leadeater said:

Not on the PC they do not, AMD has been the console hardware provider for a long time and this has done exactly zero to get game developers to give equivalent or preferential optimization treatment for AMD. Nvidia on PC is king by a very long way and thus gets treated in the way their position commands, almost all games and game engines are optimized for Nvidia architecture, that's just how it is and will not change without multiple consecutive generations of AMD outselling Nvidia. You don't reverse over a decade of market dominance in a single generation i.e. Ryzen vs Intel.

its conjecture on both sides of the argument really. I'm merely stating that they should have such an advantage at this point, given developers have now had the lifespan of the PS4 and XBone to figure out the nuisances. Nvidia have a massive advantage when it comes to gameworks and blackbox code that may run poorly on AMD hardware, and there's also the unreal engine definitely favoring Nvidia, I'll give you that, but the rest is conjecture.

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2 minutes ago, Briggsy said:

I'm merely stating that they should have such an advantage at this point, given developers have now had the lifespan of the PS4 and XBone to figure out the nuisances.

Like I said this has done nothing, those consoles have been around for a very long time and nothing has changed in that regard, in fact gotten worse. Consoles do not effect PC development at all. It's not conjecture, it's actual fact.

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1 minute ago, leadeater said:

Like I said this has done nothing, those consoles have been around for a very long time and nothing has changed in that regard, in fact gotten worse. Consoles do not effect PC development at all. It's not conjecture, it's actual fact.

right... i'll have to take your word for it.

 

My original point still stands, which is that AMD have a lot going for them this generation that they didn't in previous generations, and if they screw it up its on them. 

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Just now, Briggsy said:

My original point still stands, which is that AMD have a lot going for them this generation that they didn't in previous generations, and if they screw it up its on them. 

The only difference this time around is that AMD are using a TSMC node which may or may not be better than the Samsung customized node for Nvidia. But node advantage isn't going to do as much as you might think also i.e. Ryzen vs Intel.

 

I would be very careful setting your expectations too high. Just in the same way everyone did when AMD/RTG announced the Radeon VII was getting a node shrink to 7NM on TSMC and was very much not competitive because of architecture reasons. So your assumption has to be that AMD has somehow designed a superior architecture than Nvidia has using less resources and is able to form partnerships with the industry to make sure that it gets fully utilized.

 

I reference Ryzen vs Intel a lot because it perfectly represents this situation as well. Ryzen is about to go in to it's 4th architecture generation and is only now consistently outselling Intel and Intel still has a gaming performance advantage, and Intel still has far more systems in use by real people than AMD does because Intel's market dominance has been huge for a very long time.

 

The best you should be expecting is a mirror of Ryzen, excellent product that is competitive but will still need years to make any real changes to the market. Well unless they come out with a card that is 30%+ faster than the RTX 3090 and costs the same or less than the RTX 3080 but that would actually be crazy to expect.

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6 hours ago, leadeater said:

The only difference this time around is that AMD are using a TSMC node which may or may not be better than the Samsung customized node for Nvidia. But node advantage isn't going to do as much as you might think also i.e. Ryzen vs Intel.

 

I would be very careful setting your expectations too high. Just in the same way everyone did when AMD/RTG announced the Radeon VII was getting a node shrink to 7NM on TSMC and was very much not competitive because of architecture reasons. So your assumption has to be that AMD has somehow designed a superior architecture than Nvidia has using less resources and is able to form partnerships with the industry to make sure that it gets fully utilized.

 

I reference Ryzen vs Intel a lot because it perfectly represents this situation as well. Ryzen is about to go in to it's 4th architecture generation and is only now consistently outselling Intel and Intel still has a gaming performance advantage, and Intel still has far more systems in use by real people than AMD does because Intel's market dominance has been huge for a very long time.

 

The best you should be expecting is a mirror of Ryzen, excellent product that is competitive but will still need years to make any real changes to the market. Well unless they come out with a card that is 30%+ faster than the RTX 3090 and costs the same or less than the RTX 3080 but that would actually be crazy to expect.

I’m not sure they’d need a full 30%.  15% would likely do it.  Depends on how much faster a 3090 can go than it does now.  The impression I get is “some”.  Not sure how much. All they have to get is more performance than ga102 can actually do.  How much that is though I don’t know.  One thing I noticed about the 3090 boards is that there is basically no pcb used on the sides of the board.  A 3090 is apparently really just a 3080 with more memory, unlocked busses, and a bigger cooler. Still very unlikely though. 

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7 hours ago, leadeater said:

Like I said this has done nothing, those consoles have been around for a very long time and nothing has changed in that regard, in fact gotten worse. Consoles do not effect PC development at all. It's not conjecture, it's actual fact.

They historically haven’t  affected hardware development much.  This storage latency thing might do something or it might not. We’ll know pretty shortly.  What they do affect is they sort of put a potential floor on game hardware requirements. Game devs have the option of using that floor or not.  If devs continue developing apps that run fine on 6 fast threads they will do nothing at all.   The question is how likely that is to happen.

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8 hours ago, Briggsy said:

Nvidia needs competition at the high end, not a company who's trousers keep falling down in public. Even if their top end SKU this time is 10% slower than a 3080 but they get their sh!t together with drivers, then AMD are a solid choice, while also keeping under the radar of scalpers.

If AMD's future flagship is 10% slower than Nvidia's 3080 then Nvidia does not have high end.

You can't say they need high end, and then in the next sentence say AMD only need to be 10% worse than a card that isn't even Nvidia's top end card.

If AMD wants to compete with Nvidia in the high end they need to be 0% behind the 3080. Preferably ahead of it so they can compete with the 3090.

 

 

 

 

7 hours ago, BlackManINC said:

Right, even at 10% less FPS, fact is its still gonna be light years better than my RX 470 that was a peasant class GPU even when it first launched

AMD isn't competing with themselves from 4 years ago. Their new cards need to be competitive with the 30 series, not the 400 series from AMD themselves.

 

7 hours ago, BlackManINC said:

and I'm planning on sticking with AMD for a number of reasons.

You shouldn't do that. You should buy from whichever company has the best product. Since we don't even know how the AMD product will perform I find it ridiculous to already have made up your mind about getting it.

 

7 hours ago, BlackManINC said:

To put things into perspective, the performance gap between the RX 5700XT and RTX 2080S was less than 30%.

30% difference is quite a lot.

That's almost the difference between a 2060S and 2080S. I'd say that's entirely different tiers of products.

 

 

8 hours ago, BlackManINC said:

if the actual difference between the 3080 and 3090 only being 10-15% is any indication.

The 3090 is around 20% higher performance according to TechPowerUp, at least in 4K.

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2 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

The 3090 is around 20% higher performance according to TechPowerUp, at least in 4K.

Not according to the benchmark videos I've seen its not. Its no higher than 15% max. And even if I were to give it 20%, it still doesn't justify the exorbitant price tag considering gaming was its selling point. I hope AMD capitalizes on Nvidia's greed, make them regret it. If you spent another $800 more on a 3090 just to play games, get a refund, because you got ripped off. 

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4 minutes ago, BlackManINC said:

Not according to the benchmark videos I've seen its not. Its no higher than 15% max. And even if I were to give it 20%, it still doesn't justify the exorbitant price tag considering gaming was its selling point. I hope AMD capitalizes on Nvidia's greed, make them regret it. If you spent another $800 more on a 3090 just to play games, get a refund, because you got ripped off. 

yeah at 4K its about ~15% on average, according to techpowerup. I'm sure there's outliers above 15%, but there's also outliers below that too.

 

Spoiler

Relative Performance 3840x2160

 

Even the best case scenario with the Strix 3090 isn't pushing much further.

 

Spoiler

Relative Performance 3840x2160

 

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