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rtx 3080 crashing possibly due to capacitor choice

spartaman64

I'm still annoyed that everyone calls them POSCAPs

 

It's like looking at a parking lot full of cars and saying "Dammit, the lot is full of chevrolets"

Or like saying "I have a Toyota compact Chevrolet"

Do you see how little sense this makes?

 

POSCAP is one of Panasonic's SMD Cap brands, please stop calling every SMD Cap that :(

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22 hours ago, WereCat said:

NVIDIA Recruiting Beta testers!

 

"We are offering you to pay us up to $1500 for testing our product!"

This isn't nVidia's fault (at least not directly - they should probably have given their partners more time) but rather AIB partners cheaping out on power delivery.

Don't ask to ask, just ask... please 🤨

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1 minute ago, Sauron said:

This isn't nVidia's fault (at least not directly - they should probably have given their partners more time) but rather AIB partners cheaping out on power delivery.

i don't think you can say that, basically all of the aibs are having problems with this, which points to the nvidia's spec being the problem, not the aibs

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14 minutes ago, Energycore said:

I'm still annoyed that everyone calls them POSCAPs

 

It's like looking at a parking lot full of cars and saying "Dammit, the lot is full of chevrolets"

Or like saying "I have a Toyota compact Chevrolet"

Do you see how little sense this makes?

 

POSCAP is one of Panasonic's SMD Cap brands, please stop calling every SMD Cap that :(

The whole POSCAP thing sounds more like an industry wide mislabeling rather than a couple tech outlets getting capacitors confused, so it seems like a better comparison is people who refer to 1440p as 2K. They're blatantly wrong but at this point it's kind of pedantic to complain about it.

if you have to insist you think for yourself, i'm not going to believe you.

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Just now, Suika said:

The whole POSCAP thing sounds like an industry wide mislabeling than a couple tech outlets getting capacitors confused, so it seems like a better comparison is people who refer to 1440p as 2K. They're blatantly wrong but at this point it's kind of pedantic to complain about it.

Maybe you're right. I noticed the Community Manager on the EVGA forum also call them POSCAPs

 

It's still stupid and I get annoyed when people call something by a brand name instead of what it is, but there might be nothing I can do about this

We have a NEW and GLORIOUSER-ER-ER PSU Tier List Now. (dammit @LukeSavenije stop coming up with new ones)

You can check out the old one that gave joy to so many across the land here

 

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Chillinmachine: Noctua NH-C14S
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Attachcorethingy: Gigabyte H61M-S2V-B3

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Just now, cj09beira said:

i don't think you can say that, basically all of the aibs are having problems with this, which points to the nvidia's spec being the problem, not the aibs

Not all of them; the ones using higher quality power delivery, e.g. ASUS, don't seem affected. In fairness some founder's edition cards are also crashing so it would appear nvidia themselves underestimated the necessities of their chips.

Don't ask to ask, just ask... please 🤨

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1 minute ago, Energycore said:

Maybe you're right. I noticed the Community Manager on the EVGA forum also call them POSCAPs

 

It's still stupid and I get annoyed when people call something by a brand name instead of what it is, but there might be nothing I can do about this

I mean its like saying Kleenex for every kind of wet towel there is. Its just a brand but a lot of people just call everything that looks like it Kleenex. 

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1 minute ago, thechinchinsong said:

I mean its like saying Kleenex for every kind of wet towel there is. Its just a brand but a lot of people just call everything that looks like it Kleenex. 

Right. This is what annoys me. Thanks for coming up with an example, I wasn't able to lol

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26 minutes ago, Energycore said:

I'm still annoyed that everyone calls them POSCAPs

 

It's like looking at a parking lot full of cars and saying "Dammit, the lot is full of chevrolets"

Or like saying "I have a Toyota compact Chevrolet"

Do you see how little sense this makes?

 

POSCAP is one of Panasonic's SMD Cap brands, please stop calling every SMD Cap that :(

True. But this is like, at least in US and Canada... saying 'can I have a Kleenex". It's tissue paper. But the majority of people calls it by the brand name "Kleenex".

Same for:

  • Google
  • Velcro
  • Jacuzzi
  • Breathalyzer
  • Taser
  • Popsicle 
  • Scotch Tape
  • Sharpie
  • Tupperware
  • PowerPoint

and lots lots more... and these can change depending on region. I am sure if you think about it, you probably have your own.

Oh! Another one: "Coke"! short from Cola-Cola, widely used in the world.

 

 

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4 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

True. But this is like, at least in US and Canada... saying 'can I have a Kleenex". It's tissue paper. But the majority of people calls it by the brand name "Kleenex".

Same for:

  • Google
  • Velcro
  • Jacuzzi
  • Breathalyzer
  • Taser
  • Popsicle 
  • Scotch Tape
  • Sharpie
  • Tupperware
  • PowerPoint

and lots lots more... and these can change depending on region. I am sure if you think about it, you probably have your own.

Oh! Another one: "Coke"! short from Cola-Cola, widely used in the world.

 

 

Yeah. We have ours as well for sure. I know I can't fix this, but something about letting a company's brand become so ingrained in our culture doesn't sit well with me xD

 

I'm derailing though

We have a NEW and GLORIOUSER-ER-ER PSU Tier List Now. (dammit @LukeSavenije stop coming up with new ones)

You can check out the old one that gave joy to so many across the land here

 

Computer having a hard time powering on? Troubleshoot it with this guide. (Currently looking for suggestions to update it into the context of <current year> and make it its own thread)

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Spoiler

Mathresolvermajig: Intel Xeon E3 1240 (Sandy Bridge i7 equivalent)

Chillinmachine: Noctua NH-C14S
Framepainting-inator: EVGA GTX 1080 Ti SC2 Hybrid

Attachcorethingy: Gigabyte H61M-S2V-B3

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Liquidrectangles: LG 27UK850-W 4K HDR

 

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7 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

True. But this is like, at least in US and Canada... saying 'can I have a Kleenex". It's tissue paper. But the majority of people calls it by the brand name "Kleenex".

Same for:

  • Google
  • Velcro
  • Jacuzzi
  • Breathalyzer
  • Taser
  • Popsicle 
  • Scotch Tape
  • Sharpie
  • Tupperware
  • PowerPoint

and lots lots more... and these can change depending on region. I am sure if you think about it, you probably have your own.

Oh! Another one: "Coke"! short from Cola-Cola, widely used in the world.

 

 

You forgot jello.  Which is why it’s always referred to as “jello brand gelatin” in commercials.   The thing you describe is one of the few ways that a company can lose a trademark.

Not a pro, not even very good.  I’m just old and have time currently.  Assuming I know a lot about computers can be a mistake.

 

Life is like a bowl of chocolates: there are all these little crinkly paper cups everywhere.

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25 minutes ago, Sauron said:

This isn't nVidia's fault (at least not directly - they should probably have given their partners more time) but rather AIB partners cheaping out on power delivery.

Oh, see, I'm on the opposite side of the spectrum and I firmly believe a majority of this is NVIDIA's fault.

 

1) All board partner designs have to be approved by NVIDIA, so while Zotac, EVGA, or Palit could submit a shit design, if it gets through, then surely NVIDIA thought it was fine.

2) NVIDIA gave board partners very little time to test boards.

3) The time board partners did have to test boards, the majority of it was without drivers to actually run games or actual loads on, so partners could have been binning improper chips too.

4) Not making the reference design a bit more strict, like a 1+5 config should have been the bare minimum with 2+4 being recommended. ASUS just went overkill by the looks of it.

 

Some partners managed to do better than others but it definitely sounds like NVIDIA holds most of the fault, board partners just won't admit it because they don't want NVIDIA to wack them in the face with their massive dingly.

if you have to insist you think for yourself, i'm not going to believe you.

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29 minutes ago, Suika said:

The whole POSCAP thing sounds more like an industry wide mislabeling rather than a couple tech outlets getting capacitors confused, so it seems like a better comparison is people who refer to 1440p as 2K. They're blatantly wrong but at this point it's kind of pedantic to complain about it.

It’s a very common thing. Non metallic sheathed electrical cable has many brands, but the first one was “romex” which is what electricians often refer to it as.   Gaffers also refer to light types by brand.  

Not a pro, not even very good.  I’m just old and have time currently.  Assuming I know a lot about computers can be a mistake.

 

Life is like a bowl of chocolates: there are all these little crinkly paper cups everywhere.

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Looking at that table it would suggest a RTX 3080 Gigabyte Eagle card is fine? If so i'm good because thats the card i've pre-ordered.

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19 minutes ago, Suika said:

1) All board partner designs have to be approved by NVIDIA

I didn't know that, I thought they could just do whatever and nvidia would just be responsible for selling them the chips and providing assistance on request.

Don't ask to ask, just ask... please 🤨

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17 minutes ago, Sauron said:

I didn't know that, I thought they could just do whatever and nvidia would just be responsible for selling them the chips and providing assistance on request.

Yea, as I understood it, the designs have always had to have been approved by NVIDIA. Unless of course that changed over the last generation or so, but even Buildzoid suspects that NVIDIA is still approving boards and should assume most of the blame for this debacle.

if you have to insist you think for yourself, i'm not going to believe you.

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57 minutes ago, Suika said:

Oh, see, I'm on the opposite side of the spectrum and I firmly believe a majority of this is NVIDIA's fault.

 

1) All board partner designs have to be approved by NVIDIA, so while Zotac, EVGA, or Palit could submit a shit design, if it gets through, then surely NVIDIA thought it was fine.

Perhaps, but I don't think Nvidia is looking at their vBIOS. Those GPUs does work fine at the guaranteed clocked rates. The problem comes down to when the GPU boost itself above specs too much (for the given hardware). Basically, see GPU Boost technology as an auto-safe-OC. Nothing says that a AIB can make a board where it will reach the mentioned frequencies, but not 1MHz above, no matter what you do. I do recall, back in the old old days where you could control actual MHz of the Core, Memory and Shader  clocks of a GPU, and if you had the budget class GPU, one of the sliders would be disabled.... and that was for good reason. If you put an unofficial vBIOS to unlock it, good chance the GPU would crash if you push above specs. But that was fine back in the days, as the "GPU Boost" system didn't exists. It was like, here are the max clock we certified, and that was it. You had 2 or 3 performance profile that the GPU would support. Basically, what is the equivalent of: Idle, video playback, light load, and full load. 

 

 

Quote

2) NVIDIA gave board partners very little time to test boards.

I agree. Nvidia rushed the whole things. Typically, when a product is launched, retail have a few deliveries of the products to allow stores to stock up before lunch day (this is where you typically see leaks of the product box). This was not the case this time, and AIBs did not have time to configure their vBIOS based on their testing. And card deliveries was occurring the day off release.

 

Maybe, like you suggest, that Nvidia just quickly approved the designed, without question, just to rush the whole thing.. maybe.. but that battle is not with us. It is AIBs that will have to fight Nvidia for approving designs without actually doing their part, and Nvidia fault for not letting them have time to make things right costing AIBs their reputation, and cost with all the returns and doing all the warranty replacements. Us consumer, is with the AIBs. They could have delayed their product release. There is no obligation of them to release anything on the day off. Yes it is a race, as the competitor will do it, but that is not your problem, as a consumer.

 

Quote

3) The time board partners did have to test boards, the majority of it was without drivers to actually run games or actual loads on, so partners could have been binning improper chips too.

Correct. Jay even mentioned an AIB inform him, before this story was a thing, that they are changing the design due to stability issue, and are sending another card to him and not to review the one he got (or something along those lines, you can watch his video for proper quote. But the point is, they noted this before their card was launched and rectifying the issue)... I guess the AIBs models affected didn't care, or hope it won't appear.

 

Quote

4) Not making the reference design a bit more strict, like a 1+5 config should have been the bare minimum with 2+4 being recommended. ASUS just went overkill by the looks of it.

As long as the GPU can deliver the promised based specs (and not, say, be stuck at 300MHz, and have core unpowered, making the GPU slower than a GeForce 210 or whatever), that is what matters. The rest, is just extra. I think in AIB mind, they wanted to have poor OC or no OC models, and then have their premium model coming up later, with better components, which can OC much better, allowing them to show to consumers the value in the premium graphic card boards.

 

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1 hour ago, GoodBytes said:

Nvidia released the drivers to AIBs at the last minute. No time to do changes. It was a rushed released.

yeah I see that makes sense, though it's certainly a bit mysterious why they'd botch it like that.

 

1 hour ago, GoodBytes said:

It is clear that Nvidia really wanted to capitalize every single day before AMD releases their GPU.

I firmly believe it's not really dedicated AMD GPUs but rather the new consoles coming out ,so *indirectly* it is AMD GPUs, everything seems to be aimed to beat the consoles to the punch (like the whole "fast memory that can read data from SSD faster" thing for example) which generally is a good move, but I agree it almost seems like they were panicking ,in hindsight.

 

I do wonder how this will be resolved, imo a recall for affected cards would be in order, if only to keep up momentum and goodwill, cause gimping those cards via driver updates now surely wouldn't be a good look , especially at this apparently (for Nvidia) crucial time. 

(just my opinion I don't know what'll happen obviously)

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I think there are several factors going on here.

And currently I don't actually believe it has anything to do with these capacitors.

 

At first I've seen people claim it only happens to cards with 6 POSCAPs.

Then I've heard the ideal setup is 4/2

Yet the FE model featuring a 4/2 setup and the ASUS TUF with a 0/6 setup have this issue when the clock speed goes too high.

 

The asus TUF one I've seen no reports on, the OC version does have this issue.

I'm more inclined to think this is an OC validation issue rather than a capacitor one, as this only happens when the clock speed goes too high.

 

I'm pretty sure there will be a global driver update to fix this issue.

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16 minutes ago, Mark Kaine said:

I firmly believe it's not really dedicated AMD GPUs but rather the new consoles coming out ,so *indirectly* it is AMD GPUs, everything seems to be aimed to beat the consoles to the punch (like the whole "fast memory that can read data from SSD faster" thing for example) which generally is a good move, but I agree it almost seems like they were panicking ,in hindsight.

Very true. But I would go with the belief that, a company like Nvidia (and same story on the side of AMD), investing billions in R&D money for a product, and rare specialized knowledge in GPUs, would know something about their competitor that none of us knows. 

 

That, or, Nvidia has a spy at AMD, AMD knows it, and instead of blocking and going to fight in court and all that, are having fun feeding him/her false information...

"Oh that new Radeon GPU will have 60GB of vRAM, runs at 6GHz, have 100,000 cores  and only cost 200$!', and now have Nvidia going "Oh shiiiiiiiiiiiiit", and ends up that AMD latest GPU can't even compete against the 3060. That would be a massive troll, move, which probably would cost Nvidia more than fighting in court over spying allegations, which would end up hurting AMD financial as well.

 

We have no idea. All possibilities of course. But I suspect, that when they see leaks, they are better at determined if it makes sense or not, and what it actually means, and what possible approach they are taking. It could be simple things like: "Oh, the latest GPU would take 16GB.... well that means they are probably using XYZ algorithm for the memory management, which allows them to gain additional performance, despite the increase memory usage... making the GPU more expensive to produce due to the added memory, but they can still be price competitive due to the reduce operation cost". Well I have no idea how it works, but this is just a guess. They definitely more than a YouTuber. What I do know, is that if you are an engineer working in the GPU architecture division, you are pretty much set for life. As, it is not something thought anywhere outside of companies, and there is so little experts in the field, that companies steal each other engineers. In other words, I won't be surprised if an Nvidia engineer would be hired without an actual interview process at AMD, if they want to jump ship, same for Intel.

 

Quote

I do wonder how this will be resolved, imo a recall for affected cards would be in order, if only to keep up momentum and goodwill, cause gimping those cards via driver updates now surely wouldn't be a good look , especially at this apparently (for Nvidia) crucial time. 

(just my opinion I don't know what'll happen obviously)

I think it will be a vBIOS update delivered by AIBs which will attempt to optimize things. If they need to limit the GPU by 15-30MHz to fix the stabilization problem for most (and those who don't, will get an upgrade (basically, the same GPU but the PCB fixed) when they RMA), great! If they need to cut 200MHz, then so be it. Note: The mentioned speeds, I am not referring to the base clock or certified boost clocks. I am talking about GPU Boost, auto-OC system, peek clocks.

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12 minutes ago, Exeon said:

I think there are several factors going on here.

And currently I don't actually believe it has anything to do with these capacitors.

 

At first I've seen people claim it only happens to cards with 6 POSCAPs.

Then I've heard the ideal setup is 4/2

Yet the FE model featuring a 4/2 setup and the ASUS TUF with a 0/6 setup have this issue when the clock speed goes too high.

 

The asus TUF one I've seen no reports on, the OC version does have this issue.

I'm more inclined to think this is an OC validation issue rather than a capacitor one, as this only happens when the clock speed goes too high.

 

I'm pretty sure there will be a global driver update to fix this issue.

It's definitely multiple factors, and these factor varies between graphics card models.

Every AIB does its own changes to the reference design. It can be anywhere from component change or change a single PCB trace location.

The POSCAPs story seems to be the last line of defense in deliver clean power to the GPU. If they changed something, that causes dirty power to be delivered to a point that these caps can't filter enough the dirty power to a GPU that is clearly being pushed to its limit "out of box", well things will not behave correctly.

 

The old GeForce 480 was also a GPU that was pushed to its limits... the difference if that back in the days, AIBs didn't really have these massive tipple slot coolers, and the reference cooler, as borderlines adequate (ie: GPU kept under 100C, but still freaking hot), just to be competitive to AMD offerings at the time. Of course, after some issues fixed, optimizations done, the architecture could really shine with the 500 series. I won't be surprised if we see the same when the 4000 series. Probably, might switch to a different Samsung process or return to TSMC... a possibility if they know it will help, as well. Of course, there will be other things, like the 500 series had. I mean the GPU needs to be faster then the older model, at the end of the day.

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Though all the "but anything above 1710 MHz is not the official clock and is just OC" excuses. Well, everyone is advertising cards to us at boost clocks waaaaaaay beyond 1710 MHz which means if they then artificially limit it at something lower to get stability, you're effectively selling me a product based on fake and unrealistic numbers. And I don't care if it's just 30 MHz difference. The whole "anything above 1710 MHz is just an OC" is such a lame excuse when official boost clock is purposely set so low everything goes way past that all the time. If that was true, all reviewers should lock all cards down to 1710 MHz and test and present scores at that clock and only present scores beyond that under "Overclocking" section in the end of the review, like they usually have. But they don't do that.

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2 hours ago, RejZoR said:

Though all the "but anything above 1710 MHz is not the official clock and is just OC" excuses. Well, everyone is advertising cards to us at boost clocks waaaaaaay beyond 1710 MHz which means if they then artificially limit it at something lower to get stability, you're effectively selling me a product based on fake and unrealistic numbers. And I don't care if it's just 30 MHz difference. The whole "anything above 1710 MHz is just an OC" is such a lame excuse when official boost clock is purposely set so low everything goes way past that all the time. If that was true, all reviewers should lock all cards down to 1710 MHz and test and present scores at that clock and only present scores beyond that under "Overclocking" section in the end of the review, like they usually have. But they don't do that.

I agree.

Well basically, you are paying more for a certification of that higher clock rate. So saying "Oh it an OC, its fine if I don't have it", is silly, as you are paying for that certification. 

 

But the problem, I think (I mean I am working with the info we have so far), is that its not the 1710MHz +30-50MHz extra from the AIB the problem, it is the GPU going 'Oh, it is cool, I can burst to 2000 MHz (or whatever) for a second or so to help things out!', and when it reaches that peek burst, the GPU can't get the power it needs, or things screws up inside, and fails. I don't see the AIBs release a vBIOS that brings a, say, 1740MHz down to 1710MHz, that would be a asking for a lawsuit. But what they can do, is tell the GPU: "Sorry you can't go to 2000 MHz, the max you can go is 1900 MHz!". And the GPU will act occordingly.

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2 hours ago, GoodBytes said:

Nvidia released the drivers to AIBs at the last minute. No time to do changes. It was a rushed released. It is clear that Nvidia really wanted to capitalize every single day before AMD releases their GPU. Which, to me, is still shocking on why they are panicking that way.

panicking means they know its going to be hard to win over people once AMD is out

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Condor (MC server): 6600K, z170m plus, 16gb corsair vengeance LPX, samsung 750 evo, EVGA BR 450.

Spirt  (NAS) ASUS Z9PR-D12, 2x E5 2620V2, 8x4gb, 24 3tb HDD. F80 800gb cache, trueNAS, 2x12disk raid Z3 stripped

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21 hours ago, GoodBytes said:

So the affectedtd AIBs are going BELLOW specs from Nvidia. I would say: Return the card now!

No buts! The card was improperly built to specification, you, as a consumer, been had. If they cut there, they probably cut at other places too. 

Return it, and buy from a AIB that doesn't cheat its customers. If you don't, you essentially agree that it is OK for manufactures to sales you overpriced crap.

 

For most people in the world, people are still in their return window. There will NOT be a recall. Cost too much. The affected manufacture will release a vBIOS which will gimp the GPU abilities to 'solve' the problem.

 

Let the scalpers and miners shoot themselves in the foot.

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