High temperatures due to Intel Turbo Boost

[krkeshav123]

Hello!

I have an Ideapad 530s with i5-8250U and MX150 GPU 2GB. By default Turbo boost is always on. But when I start gaming, every game stutters. I checked the temperatures while gaming. The GPU temp was average 65 degrees(C) while the CPU temperatures where between 75(C) to 82(C) most of the with peak temp as 92(only saw that for a sec). When I disabled the Turbo boost by setting maximum processor state to 99% then all the stutters in the games stopped and the temperature was now 66 degrees average. So, any idea how can I fix this issue and also does disabling Turbo boost affect performance of games?

 

EDIT: The system is working fine now. I just had to change my BIOS settings to performance mode to do that. I think Lenovo sneaked this option after BIOS update. Well, I am getting stable FPS, but still after like 1 minute of gameplay the Turbo Boost is turned off automatically and maximum GPU temp is now 67 C instead of 64 C. Can't ask for more now. Thanks to @Samfisher and special thanks @unclewebb.

Edited October 30, 2020 by krkeshav123

[Samfisher]

Those aren't too hot temps.  Temps by themselves don't cause performance issues.  It's when the temps cross a threshold and start thermal throttling you get bad performance.  What are the actual clock speeds when you hit those temps?  Yes, Turbo Boost can affect gaming performance a lot.  However, since you are asking if it does, it's safe to say you didn't notice the performance drop....

[SupaKomputa]

The CPU can operate well at over 90c, don't worry about it.

The GPU don't like it hot, over 80c you will stutter.

To fix this you must ramp out the fan speed.

23 minutes ago, Samfisher said:

Temps by themselves don't cause performance issues.

Yes it does, even on my RX580, if the temps are over 85c, it will crawl.

I had to manually set the fan curve to the max, since amd default are only 80%.

[Samfisher]

13 minutes ago, SupaKomputa said:

The CPU can operate well at over 90c, don't worry about it.

The GPU don't like it hot, over 80c you will stutter.

To fix this you must ramp out the fan speed.

Yes it does, even on my RX580, if the temps are over 85c, it will crawl.

I had to manually set the fan curve to the max, since amd default are only 80%.

Read what I wrote.  Temps don't don't affect performance until it hits a thermal threshold....  So obviously 85c is where it thermal throttles.  It's not cos it hit 85c that the silicon is suddenly underperforming.  The thermal threshold for throttling is set by the manufacturer to force a certain temp range.  Can it physically go above 85c and perform the same?  Of course it can.  You manufacturer just decided 85c is the limit so it throttles.  Read to understand, not read to reply.

[krkeshav123]

42 minutes ago, Samfisher said:

Those aren't too hot temps.  Temps by themselves don't cause performance issues.  It's when the temps cross a threshold and start thermal throttling you get bad performance.  What are the actual clock speeds when you hit those temps?  Yes, Turbo Boost can affect gaming performance a lot.  However, since you are asking if it does, it's safe to say you didn't notice the performance drop....

Well when the game lags the CPU clock speed is 3400Mhz , CPU usage 25-35% and power usage is between 11 to 18 watts with major fps drops. After disabling turbo boost , clock speed is 1700Mhz, CPU usage 40-80% and the power usage is between 5 to 9 watts. Also, now there are no frame drops/stutters. 

Even old games like skyrim also lags.

[Samfisher]

6 minutes ago, krkeshav123 said:

Well when the game lags the CPU clock speed is 3400Mhz , CPU usage 25-35% and power usage is between 11 to 18 watts with major fps drops. After disabling turbo boost , clock speed is 1700Mhz, CPU usage 40-80% and the power usage is between 5 to 9 watts. Also, now there are no frame drops/stutters. 

Even old games like skyrim also lags.

Yes, because it's a mobile chip, the range between Turbo boost and base clock is typically very large.  AT 1700mhz you probably won't get any stutters but overall FPS should be a fair bit lower too yes?  If it's lagging at 3400MHz then something else is the issue maybe.  It's still maintaining those clocks so it's not thermal throttling, which is weird.

[krkeshav123]

2 minutes ago, Samfisher said:

Yes, because it's a mobile chip, the range between Turbo boost and base clock is typically very large.  AT 1700mhz you probably won't get any stutters but overall FPS should be a fair bit lower too yes?  If it's lagging at 3400MHz then something else is the issue maybe.  It's still maintaining those clocks so it's not thermal throttling, which is weird.

About overall FPS: well I am facing this problem from last 5 months, so I don't know any more about the difference in overall FPS.

For about 1 year after buying I never faced this issue. 

What about dust in fans or lower fan speeds? Can these factors cause this issue?

[Samfisher]

Just now, krkeshav123 said:

About overall FPS: well I am facing this problem from last 5 months, so I don't know any more about the difference in overall FPS.

For about 1 year after buying I never faced this issue. 

What about dust in fans or lower fan speeds? Can these factors cause this issue?

Yes of course.  Regularly clean your laptop of dust in the fans.

[unclewebb]

Some Lenovo laptops have a horrible feature where the thermal throttling temperature is being changed while you are using your computer. Intel sets the 8250U thermal throttling temperature to 100°C.

 

https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/124967/intel-core-i5-8250u-processor-6m-cache-up-to-3-40-ghz.html

 

Some Lenovo laptops can randomly drop this to 70°C or less. Premature thermal throttling will continuously drop the CPU down to 800 MHz or less in an endless cycle. Not great for smooth game play.

 

To prevent this from happening, download ThrottleStop, open the Options window and set PROCHOT Offset to 0. This is the Intel default value. Some laptops use 3 or 5. Check the Lock PROCHOT Offset option after that.

 

 

This prevents Lenovo from monkeying around with this setting when it should not be. After you do this, no need to disable turbo boost. Set the maximum processor state back to 100%. If you have any problems, post some screenshots so I can see how you have ThrottleStop setup.

[krkeshav123]

On 9/24/2020 at 11:36 PM, unclewebb said:

Some Lenovo laptops have a horrible feature where the thermal throttling temperature is being changed while you are using your computer. Intel sets the 8250U thermal throttling temperature to 100°C.

 

https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/124967/intel-core-i5-8250u-processor-6m-cache-up-to-3-40-ghz.html

 

Some Lenovo laptops can randomly drop this to 70°C or less. Premature thermal throttling will continuously drop the CPU down to 800 MHz or less in an endless cycle. Not great for smooth game play.

 

To prevent this from happening, download ThrottleStop, open the Options window and set PROCHOT Offset to 0. This is the Intel default value. Some laptops use 3 or 5. Check the Lock PROCHOT Offset option after that.

 

 

This prevents Lenovo from monkeying around with this setting when it should not be. After you do this, no need to disable turbo boost. Set the maximum processor state back to 100%. If you have any problems, post some screenshots so I can see how you have ThrottleStop setup.

Hello there, Sorry for seeing this post late. I downloaded Throttlestop 9.2. I checked The PROCHOT offset. The value is set at 6. I set the value to 0 and then locked it. The problem still persists.

Here, I attached a video to show what happens to CPU stats while gaming when I either disable Turbo Boost or I disconnect the charger from the laptop. In both situations, the clock speed decreases and the stutters stops. Also, I didn't face this problem for about 1 year after buying the laptop.

Edited October 28, 2020 by krkeshav123

[unclewebb]

I could not see the video you posted. Not sure why.

 

17 minutes ago, krkeshav123 said:

use it at my own risk

The Intel default value for PROCHOT Offset is 0. It is your laptop. If it blows up, no one in a forum is going to buy you a new one. If you do not feel comfortable adjusting this then leave it alone.

 

Most laptops can not run at maximum performance when running on battery power.

 

[krkeshav123]

1 minute ago, unclewebb said:

I could not see the video you posted. Not sure why.

 

The Intel default value for PROCHOT Offset is 0. It is your laptop. If it blows up, no one in a forum is going to buy you a new one. If you do not feel comfortable adjusting this then leave it alone.

 

Most laptops can not run at maximum performance when running on battery power.

 

I edited the post. Check again please. Also, idk why the video is not showing in mini player. You can download the video and see it. 

[krkeshav123]

35 minutes ago, unclewebb said:

The Intel default value for PROCHOT Offset is 0. It is your laptop. If it blows up, no one in a forum is going to buy you a new one. If you do not feel comfortable adjusting this then leave it alone.

 

Most laptops can not run at maximum performance when running on battery power.

I did as you told in the settings. It didn't work. The problem still persists. Did I do it wrong?(One thing , I noticed was that I ran the game as soon as I clicked OK i.e. I didn't restart).

Also, I didn't face this problem for about 1 year after buying the laptop. This problem started around 8 months ago in March. Also, around that time only I updated my BIOS also. Till, December 2019 everything was perfect. 

The video doesn't show in mini player. You can download and check it.

 

Also, thanks for taking your time and looking into this.

[unclewebb]

@krkeshav123 - Turn on the Log File option in ThrottleStop. Play a game for 15 minutes so you have lots of data. When finished testing, exit the game and then exit ThrottleStop. The log file will be in your ThrottleStop / Logs folder. Attach it to your next post so I can see what is going on. Also post some pictures of how you have ThrottleStop setup. It sounds like power limit throttling.

 

Remember to turn on Nvidia GPU monitoring in the Options window before you start logging data.

[krkeshav123]

1 hour ago, unclewebb said:

@krkeshav123 - Turn on the Log File option in ThrottleStop. Play a game for 15 minutes so you have lots of data. When finished testing, exit the game and then exit ThrottleStop. The log file will be in your ThrottleStop / Logs folder. Attach it to your next post so I can see what is going on. Also post some pictures of how you have ThrottleStop setup. It sounds like power limit throttling.

 

Remember to turn on Nvidia GPU monitoring in the Options window before you start logging data.

I logged the data from the games. I ran the games at default power settings in windows. First game was Rocket league which starts at around 23:30 then at around 23:39, I played Witcher 3 which is little intensive and stutters so much that it is not playable and I had to quit the game at around 23:42. After that, system was in idle state and was cooling down. Also, I attached the default settings form Throttlestop

2020-10-28.txt

[unclewebb]

Near the start of your log file, your Nvidia GPU is running between 1481 MHz and 1696 MHz. PL1 in the far right column indicates power limit throttling for the CPU. This CPU is rated at 15W long term so some CPU throttling at 15W is normal.

   DATE       TIME    MULTI   C0%   CKMOD  BAT_mW  TEMP   NVIDIA GPU     VID   POWER
2020-10-28  23:29:52  33.41   27.0  100.0       0   77    1481    59   1.0208   16.7   PL1
2020-10-28  23:29:53  26.21   67.7  100.0       0   70    1481    59   0.9166   16.0   PL1
2020-10-28  23:29:54  30.26   27.3  100.0       0   70    1481    60   1.0289   13.5   PL1
2020-10-28  23:29:55  30.27   33.5  100.0       0   74    1481    60   1.0253   15.3   PL1
2020-10-28  23:29:56  28.03   47.8  100.0       0   74    1481    61   0.9320   15.7   PL1
2020-10-28  23:29:57  27.08   54.4  100.0       0   73    1481    61   0.8661   15.6   PL1
2020-10-28  23:29:58  25.65   69.0  100.0       0   73    1696    62   0.8378   14.9   PL1
2020-10-28  23:29:59  25.06   57.1  100.0       0   73    1696    62   0.9209   14.0   PL1
2020-10-28  23:30:00  31.63   21.9  100.0       0   71    1683    63   1.0886   13.2   PL1
2020-10-28  23:30:01  33.32   22.0  100.0       0   76    1683    63   1.0759   15.2   PL1
2020-10-28  23:30:02  27.22   57.2  100.0       0   70    1683    63   0.8936   16.6   PL1
2020-10-28  23:30:03  28.71   35.7  100.0       0   72    1683    63   0.9810   14.0   PL1
2020-10-28  23:30:04  31.50   25.1  100.0       0   74    1683    64   1.0354   14.4   PL1
2020-10-28  23:30:05  32.79   22.2  100.0       0   74    1683    64   1.0742   14.5   PL1
2020-10-28  23:30:06  33.15   22.7  100.0       0   74    1683    64   1.1040   14.9

 

At 23:40 when trying to play Witcher 3, look at your Nvidia GPU speed.

   DATE       TIME    MULTI   C0%   CKMOD  BAT_mW  TEMP   NVIDIA GPU     VID   POWER

2020-10-28  23:40:04  33.81   37.1  100.0       0   84     139    64   1.0757   19.2
2020-10-28  23:40:05  33.88   11.2  100.0       0   73     139    64   1.0981    8.6
2020-10-28  23:40:06  33.91   48.3  100.0       0   92     139    64   1.0316   23.3
2020-10-28  23:40:07  33.93   16.9  100.0       0   69     139    64   1.0752   10.9
2020-10-28  23:40:08  33.96   16.2  100.0       0   69     139    64   1.1023   11.0
2020-10-28  23:40:09  33.99   15.2  100.0       0   69     139    64   1.1259   10.3
2020-10-28  23:40:10  33.97   38.2  100.0       0   87     139    64   1.1360   20.1
2020-10-28  23:40:11  33.79   11.1  100.0       0   70     139    64   1.1254    8.4
2020-10-28  23:40:12  34.00   13.5  100.0       0   70     139    64   1.1029    9.6
2020-10-28  23:40:13  34.00   12.3  100.0       0   84     139    64   1.0751    8.9
2020-10-28  23:40:14  33.99   21.2  100.0       0   71     139    64   1.0841   13.1
2020-10-28  23:40:15  33.90   43.4  100.0       0   73     139    64   1.0854   21.8
2020-10-28  23:40:16  34.00   11.9  100.0       0   70     139    64   1.1469    8.8
2020-10-28  23:40:17  34.00   16.1  100.0       0   72     139    64   1.1128   11.0
2020-10-28  23:40:18  33.87   21.3  100.0       0   70     139    64   1.1158   13.1
2020-10-28  23:40:19  33.99   13.2  100.0       0   73     139    64   1.1226    8.8
2020-10-28  23:40:20  33.99   15.4  100.0       0   69     139    64   1.0742   10.4
2020-10-28  23:40:21  34.00   11.1  100.0       0   70     139    64   1.1127    8.0
2020-10-28  23:40:22  34.00   12.5  100.0       0   70     139    64   1.0969    8.7
2020-10-28  23:40:23  33.90   22.3  100.0       0   84     139    64   1.0963   12.9

 

Your Nvidia GPU is running at 139 MHz. That is why this game is unplayable. Your Nvidia GPU is throttling like crazy. It is your Nvidia GPU that is the biggest problem. It is running at a peak of 64°C so the GPU should not be thermal throttling at that temperature.

 

I have no idea why it is running so poorly. Maybe a driver update screwed things up or maybe your power adapter is struggling to fully power your CPU and Nvidia GPU when they are both active. When you disable Intel Turbo Boost, that reduces CPU power consumption. That extra power might allow your Nvidia GPU to run faster. 

 

[krkeshav123]

2 minutes ago, unclewebb said:

Your Nvidia GPU is running at 139 MHz. That is why this game is unplayable. Your Nvidia GPU is throttling like crazy. It is your Nvidia GPU that is the biggest problem. It is running at a peak of 64°C so the GPU should not be thermal throttling at that temperature.

 

I have no idea why it is running so poorly. Maybe a driver update screwed things up or maybe your power adapter is struggling to fully power your CPU and Nvidia GPU when they are both active. When you disable Intel Turbo Boost, that reduces CPU power consumption. That extra power might allow your Nvidia GPU to run faster. 

Can this be due to dust inside the laptop?

If not then, can the Windows 10 reset can fix anything?

If not then, any idea what can I do?

Thanks for your time!

[unclewebb]

@krkeshav123 - I had a second look at your log file. Your Nvidia GPU is being limited to 64°C. Looks like some update has set the GPU thermal throttling temperature to a super low value. You can thank Lenovo for this. Unless you can find and install an older BIOS version, this problem is not going to go away.

[krkeshav123]

2 minutes ago, unclewebb said:

@krkeshav123 - I had a second look at your log file. Your Nvidia GPU is being limited to 64°C. Looks like some update has set the GPU thermal throttling temperature to a super low value. You can thank Lenovo for this. Unless you can find and install an older BIOS version, this problem is not going to go away.

@unclewebb

Well if that's the problem. Then, any idea how to downgrade BIOS?

[unclewebb]

11 minutes ago, krkeshav123 said:

any idea how to downgrade BIOS?

Check Lenovo's website for BIOS updates. Some companies have older BIOS versions available in case you are having problems. Search their website for BIOS updates and see if you can install one from 2019 when your laptop used to run properly. Lenovo was likely using a higher GPU throttling temperature back then. 

 

Are you using the latest BIOS version. A new one came out just 2 weeks ago. Maybe Lenovo came to their senses and has already fixed this throttling problem.

[krkeshav123]

10 minutes ago, unclewebb said:

Check Lenovo's website for BIOS updates. Some companies have older BIOS versions available in case you are having problems. Search their website for BIOS updates and see if you can install one from 2019 when your laptop used to run properly. Lenovo was likely using a higher GPU throttling temperature back then. 

 

Are you using the latest BIOS version. A new one came out just 2 weeks ago. Maybe Lenovo came to their senses and has already fixed this throttling problem.

@unclewebb-I am on Latest BIOS. Nope, the problem is not fixed. Suppose I find a file from 2019. How can I downgrade it manually because I usually update using Lenovo Vantage application which is provided. Any risks I should know or precautions before I do it?

[unclewebb]

8 minutes ago, krkeshav123 said:

Any risks

There is always a risk when you install an older BIOS version. Your laptop can end up completely unusable so that it will not even turn on. 

 

Contact Lenovo. Tell them that you are very angry that they set the Nvidia GPU thermal throttling temperature to 65°C. Their decision has made your laptop unusable. Tell them to fix the problem that they created. You should not have to risk your laptop because of their stupidity. Your Nvidia GPU is completely unusable when it is being limited to 139 MHz.

[krkeshav123]

13 hours ago, unclewebb said:

There is always a risk when you install an older BIOS version. Your laptop can end up completely unusable so that it will not even turn on. 

 

Contact Lenovo. Tell them that you are very angry that they set the Nvidia GPU thermal throttling temperature to 65°C. Their decision has made your laptop unusable. Tell them to fix the problem that they created. You should not have to risk your laptop because of their stupidity. Your Nvidia GPU is completely unusable when it is being limited to 139 MHz.

Well, I saw one other user with the same problem on Lenovo Forums. He said that downgrading helped him. I took the risk to downgrade my BIOS to previous version when I used to do gaming properly. Still, the problem persists. I performed clean installation of Nvidia Drivers. Still, same problem. Temps max is 64 and clock speed under 500MHz mostly. Well, any more insights? Maybe dust? 

Thanks for the help till now!

Edited October 29, 2020 by krkeshav123

[krkeshav123]

@unclewebb- I took the risk to try different older BIOS version from the time when I bought my laptop. Every time the same problem was present. Now, any insights into it is appreciated. Maybe hardware failure or dust issue?

Thanks for your time!

[krkeshav123]

On 10/29/2020 at 12:34 AM, unclewebb said:

I had a second look at your log file. Your Nvidia GPU is being limited to 64°C. Looks like some update has set the GPU thermal throttling temperature to a super low value. You can thank Lenovo for this. Unless you can find and install an older BIOS version, this problem is not going to go away.

The system is working fine now. I just had to change my BIOS settings to performance mode to do that. I think Lenovo sneaked this option after BIOS update. Well, I am getting stable FPS, but still after like 1 minute of gameplay the Turbo Boost is turned off automatically and maximum GPU temp is now 67 C instead of 64 C. Can't ask for more now. 

Thanks to @Samfisher and special thanks to @unclewebb