Apple Terminates Epic's App Store Account

[GravityHurts]

Summary

In response to their adding of direct payment to the fortnite mobile app Apple has terminated Epic's Games' app store account.

 

Quotes

Quote

Epic’s App Store account has now been terminated due to the Fortnite developer knowingly violating App Store policy. Epic Games still had a few apps available for iOS aside from Fortnite, and they were all removed today.

 

My thoughts

This is the latest development in the ongoing fight between Epic Games and Apple. Who knows whether or not Fortnite and Epic will ever return to the app store at this point. Honestly I don't have much insight into the situation but I think that there should be a way to manually install apps onto your iPhone without having to jailbreak it, but at the same time Epic seems to be taking advantage of their audience in the fight against Apple.

 

Sources

 https://9to5mac.com/2020/08/28/apple-has-now-terminated-epic-games-app-store-account/

[Totallycasual]

I'm no fan of Apple but everyone knows exactly what they're signing up for when they have their apps on the store, Epic tried to wiggle a way around losing such a big cut and now the shit has hit the fan

[Guest]

To be fair, I think Apple has the legal authority to do so, it’s their policy, their store. 
 

Is it a monopoly? Hard to say. Apple built their own phone and platform, with their store being for third-party apps. Should that mean than there should be another App Store, when Apple pioneered the concept, or would it be better for regulations for mobile app stores to make them competitively priced.

[danomicar]

10 minutes ago, RorzNZ said:

To be fair, I think Apple has the legal authority to do so, it’s their policy, their store. 
 

Is it a monopoly? Hard to say. Apple built their own phone and platform, with their store being for third-party apps. Should that mean than there should be another App Store, when Apple pioneered the concept, or would it be better for regulations for mobile app stores to make them competitively priced.

I believe Apple has an obligation at this stage to make a third party app store available. The Apps ecosystem is just too large, in my opinion, to be held to the authoritarian guidelines of "the" Appstore.

 

That being said, Apple is well within their legal right to remove Epic from their store. They establish their own rules, so they can (legally) do as they please without legal repurcussion. 

 

It's all just a bit of a shame. Consumer loses out here. 

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, danomicar said:

I believe Apple has an obligation at this stage to make a third party app store available. The Apps ecosystem is just too large, in my opinion, to be held to the authoritarian guidelines of "the" Appstore.

 

That being said, Apple is well within their legal right to remove Epic from their store. They establish their own rules, so they can (legally) do as they please without legal repurcussion. 

 

It's all just a bit of a shame. Consumer loses out here. 

I think its really a question, can you force Apple to allow other companies content on their devices? How can they ensure privacy with those apps and not have appropriate regulations?

[imreloadin]

And now Facebook is wanting to pull on the tail as well, this is hilarious

[Orangeator]

20 minutes ago, RorzNZ said:

I think its really a question, can you force Apple to allow other companies content on their devices? How can they ensure privacy with those apps and not have appropriate regulations?

The answer is yes, of course you can force Apple to allow other companies content on their devices. Google is made to do so, cannot think of a reason as to why Apple shouldn't be... 

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, Orangeator said:

The answer is yes, of course you can force Apple to allow other companies content on their devices. Google is made to do so, cannot think of a reason as to why Apple shouldn't be... 

Keep in mind it’s Apple’s devices, Apple is not providing an operating system alone. 

[atxcyclist]

This seems like a truly crappy move on Apple's part, because Fortnite may be all some parents have to keep their children happy right now, while they're eternally shut in their houses. It's Apple prerogative to set rules for their store, but it's just bad timing.

[CarlBar]

53 minutes ago, RorzNZ said:

Keep in mind it’s Apple’s devices, Apple is not providing an operating system alone. 

 

Bear in mind the EU has allready made unhappy noises about the way the play store is the default app store on effectively all android devices. you can bet they'd feel the same way about apple if they ever get round to looking at them, (and if they take action against google i guarantee google will pull every lever it can to get them to go after apple at that point as it's a situation that doesn't hurt them and could help them in that scenario. Right now they'd rather stay quiet as saying anything is likely to get them in hot water too).The fact that it's apples hardware isn't really going to change anything from the EU's perspective, if anything that would likely give them more ammunition as it's yet one more area of their devices Apple has more control.

[Dabombinable]

1 hour ago, RorzNZ said:

Keep in mind it’s Apple’s devices, Apple is not providing an operating system alone. 

You buy Apple's devices. You own them. Not Apple.

[RejZoR]

Everyone keep comparing Apple's ecosystem with Android ecosystem and doing fatal flaw argument with it.

 

Android can be on ANY phone. It inherently has and or creates same problems Windows had if it creates monopoly. And it usually creates monopoly by relentlessly pushing their shit on as many vendors as possible, spreading like cancer devouring everything else. Apple on the other hand is Apple's devices, Apple's own OS and Apple's own App store. You CANNOT get Apple's OS or App store on anything but Apple product. So, I find it hilarious how people screech and scream like idiots about monopoly. Sorry, a what? A monopoly on their OWN devices and their own devices exclusively? You can't buy Samsung or HTC and have iOS on it. Where exactly is monopoly in that when it's ONLY on their devices? If anything they limited their market to a subset of devices. They are not forcing their OS or App Store on ANYONE. You WILLINGLY decide for an Apple device and with it you get Apple's OS and Apple's App Store. America is a weird edge case where 3/4 of people buy iPhone because it's a fashion statement and you're a "poor person" if you don't have it. And then there is 1/4 of people like me who doesn't give a shit about fashion statement and have it for specific reasons like not using shitty Google's privacy nightmare ecosystem or having a phone that gets timely updates for basically guaranteed 5 years... If anyone forced me to buy iPhone it was Google itself with its bullshit, not Apple with whatever shenanigans they are doing.

 

If anything, Google should be harassed into allowing users to OPT OUT of using Google Play services and App store on ANY phone with a tap of a button and a reboot. And having option to revert that with same simplicity. Because they established this monopoly on all vendors that come with Google Services whether you like it or not. It's not just their own Pixel phones. It's ALL phones. And please don't say "uh oh but you can unlock the phone and install whatever on it". No. Just no. The process is ANYTHING but user friendly and breaks most apps as they just straight out refuse to run if phone is unlocked. Namely banking apps and stuff like Netflix. Not to mention reputable ROM's like LineageOS only support very limited set of (mostly old) devices and the rest are some crap ass obscure home brewed ROM's with zero support released on XDA forums.

[Mark Kaine]

5 hours ago, GravityHurts said:

I think that there should be a way to manually install apps onto your iPhone without having to jailbreak it,

I agree there should be,  and also on consoles including Xbox, Nintendo and PlayStation because I fail to see why you should be able to do so one one "multi purpose computer" but not on the other. Just because one device sells more than the other shouldn't be a deciding factor. 

[RejZoR]

15 minutes ago, Mark Kaine said:

I agree there should be,  and also on consoles including Xbox, Nintendo and PlayStation because I fail to see why you should be able to do so one one "multi purpose computer" but not on the other. Just because one device sells more than the other shouldn't be a deciding factor. 

I wouldn't complain over it, but I also wouldn't and am not demanding it from Apple. It's their devices and their way of running them. And their policies show through reliability. Sure I can't sideload anything on it, but I also get timely software updates for extended period of time for every single device I buy from them and malware is really significantly lesser problem than on Android. And honestly, I value that over sideloading apps. I had Android phones. Many of them. And I sideloaded things like twice and even that out of curiosity more than necessity. The experience on iPhone is something else, even with limitations imposed by Apple.

 

And like I said above, I'd demand from Android makers to give users option to disable/enable Google Services entirely on-demand or be allowed to run a custom ROM and not be fucked in the ass by apps that refuse to run on phones with different ROM. Because Google as 3rd party has created a monopoly on mobile devices. Apple on the other hand has only created monopoly on their own devices with their own OS and own App Store. Which is an absolutely oxymoron statement. You can't be a monopoly and strictly being limited to your own devices. That's like blaming Hyundai for using Hyundai hi-fi components in their car instead of JBL or Sony. It's their car and their hi-fi systems. You can't whine about monopoly for them using their own components in their own cars. And it's bloody no different with iPhones and Macs. It's their devices and their software. If you don't like it, go jerk off to Google's bullshit. It's literally that simple. Google on the other hand doesn't have that luxury because they actually created a monopoly on mobile devices. Yet somehow everyone only seems to have problem with Apple, but not Google. Just because they gave you useless stupid app sideloading and ability to install some half baked ROM's posted by some random nobody on XDA, and suddenly everything is forgiven because of that. ?!

 

And before anyone starts screeching how I'm an Apple fanboy, I'd actually defend Google just the same when it comes to Google Pixel phones. But just those phones and not phones made by 3rd parties like Samsung or Xiaomi. They are Google's own device and if they choose to enforce something on their own phones in way Apple does on iPhones, I'd defend them just the same. But if they step outside of that, they become no different as Microsoft shilling and forcing crap on users that just happen to run Windows in all these different PC's. Android and its monopoly is the equivalent of Windows from mid 90's to early 2000's. But people get so forgiving so quickly when it comes to Google for some fucked up bizarre reason...

[Jotoco]

5 hours ago, RorzNZ said:

Keep in mind it’s Apple’s devices, Apple is not providing an operating system alone. 

I was under the impression people bought the devices? If it is a lease I would be glad to see where this is stated in the contract people sign when leasing their iPhone, and the one that is handed down to subsequent owners in used market as well. 

[Jotoco]

3 hours ago, RejZoR said:

Everyone keep comparing Apple's ecosystem with Android ecosystem and doing fatal flaw argument with it.

 

Android can be on ANY phone. It inherently has and or creates same problems Windows had if it creates monopoly. And it usually creates monopoly by relentlessly pushing their shit on as many vendors as possible, spreading like cancer devouring everything else. Apple on the other hand is Apple's devices, Apple's own OS and Apple's own App store. You CANNOT get Apple's OS or App store on anything but Apple product. So, I find it hilarious how people screech and scream like idiots about monopoly. Sorry, a what? A monopoly on their OWN devices and their own devices exclusively? You can't buy Samsung or HTC and have iOS on it. Where exactly is monopoly in that when it's ONLY on their devices? If anything they limited their market to a subset of devices. They are not forcing their OS or App Store on ANYONE. You WILLINGLY decide for an Apple device and with it you get Apple's OS and Apple's App Store. America is a weird edge case where 3/4 of people buy iPhone because it's a fashion statement and you're a "poor person" if you don't have it. And then there is 1/4 of people like me who doesn't give a shit about fashion statement and have it for specific reasons like not using shitty Google's privacy nightmare ecosystem or having a phone that gets timely updates for basically guaranteed 5 years... If anyone forced me to buy iPhone it was Google itself with its bullshit, not Apple with whatever shenanigans they are doing.

 

If anything, Google should be harassed into allowing users to OPT OUT of using Google Play services and App store on ANY phone with a tap of a button and a reboot. And having option to revert that with same simplicity. Because they established this monopoly on all vendors that come with Google Services whether you like it or not. It's not just their own Pixel phones. It's ALL phones. And please don't say "uh oh but you can unlock the phone and install whatever on it". No. Just no. The process is ANYTHING but user friendly and breaks most apps as they just straight out refuse to run if phone is unlocked. Namely banking apps and stuff like Netflix. Not to mention reputable ROM's like LineageOS only support very limited set of (mostly old) devices and the rest are some crap ass obscure home brewed ROM's with zero support released on XDA forums.

Free, mostly open source OS with multiple vendor options is Monopoly! 

 

Only one option of OS and hardware is freedom! 

Man, Orwell was really a seer

[CarlBar]

58 minutes ago, RejZoR said:

I wouldn't complain over it, but I also wouldn't and am not demanding it from Apple. It's their devices and their way of running them. And their policies show through reliability. Sure I can't sideload anything on it, but I also get timely software updates for extended period of time for every single device I buy from them and malware is really significantly lesser problem than on Android. And honestly, I value that over sideloading apps. I had Android phones. Many of them. And I sideloaded things like twice and even that out of curiosity more than necessity. The experience on iPhone is something else, even with limitations imposed by Apple.

 

And like I said above, I'd demand from Android makers to give users option to disable/enable Google Services entirely on-demand or be allowed to run a custom ROM and not be fucked in the ass by apps that refuse to run on phones with different ROM. Because Google as 3rd party has created a monopoly on mobile devices. Apple on the other hand has only created monopoly on their own devices with their own OS and own App Store. Which is an absolutely oxymoron statement. You can't be a monopoly and strictly being limited to your own devices. That's like blaming Hyundai for using Hyundai hi-fi components in their car instead of JBL or Sony. It's their car and their hi-fi systems. You can't whine about monopoly for them using their own components in their own cars. And it's bloody no different with iPhones and Macs. It's their devices and their software. If you don't like it, go jerk off to Google's bullshit. It's literally that simple. Google on the other hand doesn't have that luxury because they actually created a monopoly on mobile devices. Yet somehow everyone only seems to have problem with Apple, but not Google. Just because they gave you useless stupid app sideloading and ability to install some half baked ROM's posted by some random nobody on XDA, and suddenly everything is forgiven because of that. ?!

 

And before anyone starts screeching how I'm an Apple fanboy, I'd actually defend Google just the same when it comes to Google Pixel phones. But just those phones and not phones made by 3rd parties like Samsung or Xiaomi. They are Google's own device and if they choose to enforce something on their own phones in way Apple does on iPhones, I'd defend them just the same. But if they step outside of that, they become no different as Microsoft shilling and forcing crap on users that just happen to run Windows in all these different PC's. Android and its monopoly is the equivalent of Windows from mid 90's to early 2000's. But people get so forgiving so quickly when it comes to Google for some fucked up bizarre reason...

 

Again google is getting flak from regulatory agencies over many of these aspects. Equally the fact that Apple produce the hardware and the OS doesn't let them off the hook. If the EU doesn't like google play being voluntarily installed on virtually all android devices what in the world do you think they're going to make of MacOS being the only option on an iPhone when they get round to scrutinising that? The only reason Google isn't risking somthing similar with android is the open source nature and the ability of individual mobile phone providers to do various customisation to it right upto if they wish forking their own semi custom variant, (and from what i understand this has been done enough in recent memory to avoid the "possibble but no one does it" factors thats causing the play store so many issues).

 

As a what if. If google where to suddenly insist members of it's Android partner program had to provide that version of the OS completely unmodified it's guaranteed that all the major manufactures would only use that version eventually the EU would be on Googles case for stifling competition by not providing updates to the open branch of Android in an equally timely manner thus stifling OS verity on Android compatible phones by making using a non-prater program variant unnecessarily difficult whilst denying any competition within the partner program form by locking down too many aspects of it.

[pythonmegapixel]

3 hours ago, RejZoR said:

Everyone keep comparing Apple's ecosystem with Android ecosystem and doing fatal flaw argument with it.

 

Android can be on ANY phone. It inherently has and or creates same problems Windows had if it creates monopoly. And it usually creates monopoly by relentlessly pushing their shit on as many vendors as possible, spreading like cancer devouring everything else. Apple on the other hand is Apple's devices, Apple's own OS and Apple's own App store. You CANNOT get Apple's OS or App store on anything but Apple product. So, I find it hilarious how people screech and scream like idiots about monopoly. Sorry, a what? A monopoly on their OWN devices and their own devices exclusively? You can't buy Samsung or HTC and have iOS on it. Where exactly is monopoly in that when it's ONLY on their devices? If anything they limited their market to a subset of devices. They are not forcing their OS or App Store on ANYONE. You WILLINGLY decide for an Apple device and with it you get Apple's OS and Apple's App Store. America is a weird edge case where 3/4 of people buy iPhone because it's a fashion statement and you're a "poor person" if you don't have it. And then there is 1/4 of people like me who doesn't give a shit about fashion statement and have it for specific reasons like not using shitty Google's privacy nightmare ecosystem or having a phone that gets timely updates for basically guaranteed 5 years...

How many people would have bought an iPhone if their apps werent' available on that platform? Apple is doing something rather dangerous here by reducing confidence in their App Store.

 

If Apple are prepared to kick Epic off the App Store for petty reasons, then why wouldn't they do the same to other companies, such as Facebook? Try selling someone an "iPhone, but you can't use Facebook, FB Messenger, Instagram, Snapchat or Whatsapp"?

 

Also, you are incorrect about there being no monopoly. Here's a more real-world example: imagine a town in an otherwise rural area. Other settlements are dozens of miles away in each direction and you don't know your way around them. Now let's say the only grocery store in this town is Aldi. We can say that Aldi has a monopoly on groceries in this town. Sure, you could drive dozens of miles every time you want to buy food, but it's impractical and inefficient to do so. So the residents of this town are pretty much stuck with Aldi.

 

Now, let's extend the analogy. The town is an iPhone, and the grocery store is Apple's App Store. Sure, you could leave the iPhone - but you're engrained in the ecosystem (equvalent to the long driving distance) and you aren't familiar with Android (equvalent to not knowing your way around). So, you're pretty much stuck with the App Store. This gives Apple a monopoly.

 

And this doesn't even cover the people who have to use i-Devices because their school/work told them to, or because they are locked into a mobile contract.

 

Quote

If anyone forced me to buy iPhone it was Google itself with its bullshit, not Apple with whatever shenanigans they are doing.

What?

I'm not going to criticise your choice to buy an iPhone, as that's really none of my business. But I am going to question your logic that Google forced you to buy an iPhone. You could have bought something else, such as a Nokia 3310. A smartphone is not a necessity by any stretch of the imagination.

 

Quote

If anything, Google should be harassed into allowing users to OPT OUT of using Google Play services and App store on ANY phone with a tap of   button and a reboot. And having option to revert that with same simplicity.

Well you can just not sign in with an account? That basically opts you out of Google services.

If you're really paranoid, you can disable any Google service you like by tapping a button in Settings.

 

Quote

Because they established this monopoly on all vendors that come with Google Services whether you like it or not.

This is a genuine issue. I don't believe Google is blameless here, they're doing some VERY shady things with the OHA and suchlike. But nor is Apple.

 

Quote

It's not just their own Pixel phones. It's ALL phones. And please don't say "uh oh but you can unlock the phone and install whatever on it". No. Just no. The process is ANYTHING but user friendly

I'm sorry but this bit shows that you don't have a clue what you're talking about.

 

Installing apps from outside the Play Store is as simple as:

1. Download the app, which is a single file, and open the file.
2. Click "OK" in the popup telling you that you have to change a setting. This causes it to literally take you to the right page in the settings, scroll down and highlight it for you, and you only have to do it once.
3. Check a single checkbox (which, again, is highlighted for you)
4. Go back, accept the app permissions and wait for it to install.

In what way is that "anything but user friendly".  It literally guides you through the process.

 

Quote

and breaks most apps as they just straight out refuse to run if phone is unlocked. Namely banking apps and stuff like Netflix.Not to mention reputable ROM's like LineageOS only support very limited set of (mostly old) devices and the rest are some crap ass obscure home brewed ROM's with zero support released on XDA forums.

Oh I see now, you're talking about rooting (which is called jailbreaking on iOS) which is completely different. You don't need to root an Android device just to install third party apps.

[Trik'Stari]

5 hours ago, RorzNZ said:

Keep in mind it’s Apple’s devices, Apple is not providing an operating system alone. 

It's kinda not though? When you purchase the device, it becomes yours. Apple still retains certain rights yes, but controlling what software you can and cannot put on the device should not be one of them.

 

12 minutes ago, Jotoco said:

Free, mostly open source OS with multiple vendor options is Monopoly! 

 

Only one option of OS and hardware is freedom! 

Man, Orwell was really a seer

Dependence is freedom

Bad engineering is fashionable

shitty warranty is good customer service

Ignorance is ease of use

 

Only apple users.

[Mark Kaine]

4 minutes ago, Trik'Stari said:

Dependence is freedom

Bad engineering is fashionable

shitty warranty is good customer service

Ignorance is ease of use

 

Only apple users.

But... they chose this... It's basically the #1 reason to buy an iPhone... 

 

Anecdotally evidence, but every iPhone user who hadn't their device rooted that I've asked "why do you have an iPhone when android is so much more open (and better)?" said something in the tune of "blah,  blah, security... blah, blah, I'm not good with computers..." 

 

 

So there's definitely a clientele for these kind of devices... I'm not saying it shouldn't maybe be regulated differently (allowance of sideloading would make the most sense), no, I'm just saying there's a (relatively small) market for these kind of devices,  and that's... ok. (and certainly not illegal) 

[Ashley MLP Fangirl]

6 hours ago, danomicar said:

I believe Apple has an obligation at this stage to make a third party app store available.

no they don't. if you don't like the app store buy an android phone. it's that simple. google also didn't make third party app stores avaliable, they just allowed you to sideload which is a massive security problem and thank the gods that apple does not allow that. 

[pythonmegapixel]

3 minutes ago, Ashley said:

no they don't. if you don't like the app store buy an android phone. it's that simple. google also didn't make third party app stores avaliable, they just allowed you to sideload which is a massive security problem and thank the gods that apple does not allow that. 

It's not a massive security problem. It's turned off by default and most users don't even know it's there. Those that do have the level of technical knowledge required not to install crap.

[Ashley MLP Fangirl]

15 minutes ago, Trik'Stari said:

Dependence is freedom

Bad engineering is fashionable

shitty warranty is good customer service

Ignorance is ease of use

 

Only apple users.

that's not true. i'm an apple user (i have an iPhone 6s, 2012 MacBook Pro, 2007 Mac Mini, 2004 PowerMac G5 and a 1998 iMac G3) and i've owned more apple products in the past. did some of those fail? yes. did apple have a replacement program for those faillures years after the warranty expired? yes. 

 

when apple messes up, they own up to it. the fact you could still get the 8600M GT (which was nvidia's fault for selling apple defective chips) replaced up to 4 years after purchase of the computer is amazing to me, even if you weren't the original owner. if you bought it used but it was less than 4 years old and it failed you could still get it fixed for free by apple. 

[Ashley MLP Fangirl]

1 minute ago, pythonmegapixel said:

It's not a massive security problem. It's turned off by default and most users don't even know it's there. Those that do have the level of technical knowledge required not to install crap.

it's turned off by default is no excuse when you people here constantly say that you can use a third party app store. let's not forget that Epic Games didn't offer Fortnite through the play store at least at first, they instructed you to enable sideloading and install from an apk. they instructed people who know nothing about technology to enable it and leave it enabled, how is that not a security problem?

[Trik'Stari]

10 minutes ago, Ashley said:

that's not true. i'm an apple user (i have an iPhone 6s, 2012 MacBook Pro, 2007 Mac Mini, 2004 PowerMac G5 and a 1998 iMac G3) and i've owned more apple products in the past. did some of those fail? yes. did apple have a replacement program for those faillures years after the warranty expired? yes. 

 

when apple messes up, they own up to it. the fact you could still get the 8600M GT (which was nvidia's fault for selling apple defective chips) replaced up to 4 years after purchase of the computer is amazing to me, even if you weren't the original owner. if you bought it used but it was less than 4 years old and it failed you could still get it fixed for free by apple. 

And what about the water damage indicators that trip from an overly humid day? What about the flat-out lies about data recovery for phones where apple claims it's physically impossible to recover the data, when 3rd party shops will happily recover that data and only charge you for it if they succeed?

 

Was the 8600M GT the one that was improperly soldered to the main board? The one where Apple's solution was to install a piece of rubber to keep it pressed down to the board, rather than actually do a proper soldering job?

 

You might be a technically savvy apple user, you are in no way representative of the average apple user in that regard. You are however entirely similar to the rest of the apple userbase in that you have a very odd brand loyalty to them.

 

The very first bit is in fact about the 8600M GT, and how Apple required a test be run on the machine to determine if it was covered by warranty, the problem being that if you had the defect, your device likely wasn't functioning and capable of running the test.