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What happened to the Samsung 980 Pro?

I read that the Samsung 980 Pro was to be released this month. But, I haven't heard anything about it since June.

Has anyone heard anything about it?

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1 minute ago, Tarvaln said:

I read that the Samsung 980 Pro was to be released this month. But, I haven't heard anything about it since June.

Has anyone heard anything about it?

Covid-19 happened.

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Yeah should be released anytime soonish, I also wait for it. 

Ryzen 7 3800X | X570 Aorus Elite | G.Skill 16GB 3200MHz C16 | Radeon RX 5700 XT | Samsung 850 PRO 256GB | Mouse: Zowie S1 | OS: Windows 10

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Still "soon" as far as I can tell.

 

Keep in mind if it's MLC as expected it's going to be ridiculously expensive and patently not for most consumers. If you're trying to score a fast Gen4 drive, there will be far better and cheaper options for most people.

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4 hours ago, NewMaxx said:

Still "soon" as far as I can tell.

 

Keep in mind if it's MLC as expected it's going to be ridiculously expensive and patently not for most consumers. If you're trying to score a fast Gen4 drive, there will be far better and cheaper options for most people.

Any particular recommendations?  I just got all the parts for my new rig (getting the last few pieces over the next couple days) so I haven’t put anything together yet, but I can make use of pci-e 4 nvme drives (I do a fair amount of work in autodesk and adobe apps). I was about to buy some, but saw the 980 would be out soon — last I read, the end of August..?

 

When you say ridiculously expensive, what would your guess be?  I have the budget, but if it’s over $500 for 1tb for example, I’d probably pass. 

 

I was googling to see if there were any updates and saw this thread :)

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Too many to list, but there's several controllers in the mix - SM2264/SM2267 from SMI, E19T/E18 from Phison, Lexar/WD with proprietary, Crucial/Micron possibly with proprietary, Samsung's (obviously) which might have an EVO variant eventually, Marvell (although these seem entry-level or OEM), InnoGrit has a few coming which look good, etc. You will be seeing an utter ton of Gen4 drives - I just can't give you specific dates because the industry is getting creamed right now.

 

I suspect the SM2264 will be the fastest for consumers, the E18 will be the most available (most brands using it), while the E19T and SM2267 will be excellent entry-level (but slower), InnoGrit and WD should be powerhouses (as would be the E18 and Samsung's), the rest are mostly OEM/client. It's possible the more important question will be flash actually - I already have a lot of information on these if you're technically minded, for example BiCS5 at 132 MB/s per die (vs. Samsung's 82 MB/s) for example.

 

The 1TB 970 Pro is $319.99 on Amazon right now - the 980 Pro will definitely exceed that in cost. It'll probably be twice as expensive as good Gen4 TLC drives.

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8 hours ago, NewMaxx said:

Too many to list, but there's several controllers in the mix - SM2264/SM2267 from SMI, E19T/E18 from Phison, Lexar/WD with proprietary, Crucial/Micron possibly with proprietary, Samsung's (obviously) which might have an EVO variant eventually, Marvell (although these seem entry-level or OEM), InnoGrit has a few coming which look good, etc. You will be seeing an utter ton of Gen4 drives - I just can't give you specific dates because the industry is getting creamed right now.

 

I suspect the SM2264 will be the fastest for consumers, the E18 will be the most available (most brands using it), while the E19T and SM2267 will be excellent entry-level (but slower), InnoGrit and WD should be powerhouses (as would be the E18 and Samsung's), the rest are mostly OEM/client. It's possible the more important question will be flash actually - I already have a lot of information on these if you're technically minded, for example BiCS5 at 132 MB/s per die (vs. Samsung's 82 MB/s) for example.

 

The 1TB 970 Pro is $319.99 on Amazon right now - the 980 Pro will definitely exceed that in cost. It'll probably be twice as expensive as good Gen4 TLC drives.

Oh wow, thanks for all this info.  It's a bit more than I know about I'll admit, but helpful nonetheless :)

 

I'm basically debating what m.2 nvme drives to get for my x570 board.  I was going to wait for the 980, but I don't know when it will release or the cost, or if I'll be able to fully utilize it.  I guess the other option would be to get the gen 4 sabrent rocket, or something like the 970 evo plus.  Honestly not sure what to do yet.

 

Since I'm building right now, I need to decide rather soon-ish, or at the very least set everything up and install Windows on one of my 2.5" ssd drives to make sure everything is working right, after which install the m.2 drives and re-install windows and go from there.  If you have any suggestions let me know.  Thanks!

 

Edit: if it helps, I'm running a 3950x on a Crosshair VIII Hero with 64gb 3600 ram.  I guess at this point my decisions are: 970 evo plus, sabrent rocket gen 4 (I think?), or wait for the 980 pro.

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On 8/21/2020 at 11:38 PM, PeachDodo said:

Oh wow, thanks for all this info.  It's a bit more than I know about I'll admit, but helpful nonetheless :)

 

I'm basically debating what m.2 nvme drives to get for my x570 board.  I was going to wait for the 980, but I don't know when it will release or the cost, or if I'll be able to fully utilize it.  I guess the other option would be to get the gen 4 sabrent rocket, or something like the 970 evo plus.  Honestly not sure what to do yet.

 

Since I'm building right now, I need to decide rather soon-ish, or at the very least set everything up and install Windows on one of my 2.5" ssd drives to make sure everything is working right, after which install the m.2 drives and re-install windows and go from there.  If you have any suggestions let me know.  Thanks!

 

Edit: if it helps, I'm running a 3950x on a Crosshair VIII Hero with 64gb 3600 ram.  I guess at this point my decisions are: 970 evo plus, sabrent rocket gen 4 (I think?), or wait for the 980 pro.

 

If the Samsung 980 Pro 1TB is over $300 in Canada, it is a non starter. There's almost zero reason to buy Samsung drives for quite a while now, they haven't been reasonably priced for almost 2 years. They are not better. Samsung took the goodwill and reputation they got from being the first 3D Nand drives, and have been coasting for years on it without merit.

 

You can buy the S50 from Adata for $240 CAD, or the Corsair MP600 for $250, or the SX8200 Pro for $170 or Adata Gammix S11 Pro for $160 right now. Why wait. There won't be much of a difference with the 980 Pro anyways (and there isn't much difference between the top 10 drives today either).

 

If the Samsung drive is over $300 you're even better off buying a different 2TB PCIe 4.0 drive, you'll have an extra 1TB to convert to SLC cache.

 

 

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35 minutes ago, AlistairA said:

 

If the Samsung 980 Pro 1TB is over $300 in Canada, it is a non starter.

I can't say too much on this subject for "reasons" but my current understanding is that it would be closer to $400 CAD, although certainly the market is in flux right now. I fully agree that the vast majority of people will be better off with one of the upcoming TLC-based Gen4 drives, if they absolutely need those sequentials.

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19 minutes ago, NewMaxx said:

I can't say too much on this subject for "reasons" but my current understanding is that it would be closer to $400 CAD, although certainly the market is in flux right now. I fully agree that the vast majority of people will be better off with one of the upcoming TLC-based Gen4 drives, if they absolutely need those sequentials.

Hard to say that I “absolutely need” those sequentials, I’m just trying to gauge whether or not to wait, since I don’t want to wait so long that I can’t return any components if they’re DOA for example. 
 

Perhaps I should be deciding between the gen 4 sabrent rocket and the Samsung 970 plus?  Even then I’m less sure.  I guess I’m tempted to take advantage of the pci-e 4 M2 slots that my x570 board has. 

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44 minutes ago, PeachDodo said:

Hard to say that I “absolutely need” those sequentials, I’m just trying to gauge whether or not to wait, since I don’t want to wait so long that I can’t return any components if they’re DOA for example. 
 

Perhaps I should be deciding between the gen 4 sabrent rocket and the Samsung 970 plus?  Even then I’m less sure.  I guess I’m tempted to take advantage of the pci-e 4 M2 slots that my x570 board has. 

You don't have to just get the Sabrent Rocket. There are 4 other drives that all use the same hardware as the Rocket PCIe 4.0 drive. The Adata S50 for $240 (all prices Canadian), the Corsair for $250, and the Seagate and Gigabyte also. I'm trying to explain to you that the Samsung 970 Evo isn't special. You're talking $500 for that drive with a 2TB capacity (that's the only model with a decent price/GB, the 2TB) so even after $200 plus off the MSRP on sale ($700 to $500), it is still $200 more than the competitors (like the Gammix S11 Pro at $300), and isn't faster.

 

The problem with waiting is what about Samsung makes you think they will sell their products at reasonable prices? They won't come in and beat the old prices even. They want $350 for the 970 Evo which is the exact same speed as the $160 S11 Gammix Pro and slower than the Corsair $250 one. You don't get your money's worth, you are paying for a brand.

 

Don't get me wrong, I want a 980 Pro, but $300 or less. I have a 5 percent chance of getting it at that price. So just ignore that brand.

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6 minutes ago, AlistairA said:

You don't have to just get the Sabrent Rocket. There are 4 other drives that all use the same hardware as the Rocket PCIe 4.0 drive. The Adata S50 for $240, the Corsair for $250, and the Seagate and Gigabyte also. I'm trying to explain to you that the Samsung 970 Evo isn't special. You're talking $500 for that drive with a 2TB capacity (that's the only model with a decent price/GB, the 2TB) so even after $200 plus off the MSRP on sale ($700 to $500), it is still $200 more than the competitors (like the Gammix S11 Pro at $300), and isn't faster.

 

The problem with waiting is what about Samsung makes you think they will sell their products at reasonable prices? They won't come in and beat the old prices even.

I'm just using the sabrent rocket gen4 as an example, especially since it sounds like a good drive.  Sure, any of the others would be fine, such as the Corsair or the others you mention, and I know the 970 Evo Plus isn't special (I mean to add "plus" in my previous post), but that's what I was originally planning on getting (I've had good luck with Samsung I guess).  I'm trying to decide if I should get a gen4 or gen3 m.2 drive.  Since I read the 980 pro was around the corner, I wasn't sure if it was worth waiting, that's all.

 

The Sabrent Rocket 2tb is close in price as the others (for me) as is the 970 Evo Plus... they're hovering around $350-400 or so.  Sure, cheaper is cheaper, though for this build I'm not constrained by budget.  That said I agree there's no point in wasting money on something that I won't gain any benefit from.

 

Yeah, the Samsung 980 Pro isn't going to come in and be cheaper than the others, but I'm not guiding my decision based on price.  I understand others may be, but I'd like durability and performance, so I'm willing to pay for that (within reason).  As I mentioned, I'm unsure of whether or not to take advantage of the gen 4 drives since my x570 board supports it.

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1 hour ago, PeachDodo said:

I'm just using the sabrent rocket gen4 as an example, especially since it sounds like a good drive.  Sure, any of the others would be fine, such as the Corsair or the others you mention, and I know the 970 Evo Plus isn't special (I mean to add "plus" in my previous post), but that's what I was originally planning on getting (I've had good luck with Samsung I guess).  I'm trying to decide if I should get a gen4 or gen3 m.2 drive.  Since I read the 980 pro was around the corner, I wasn't sure if it was worth waiting, that's all.

 

The Sabrent Rocket 2tb is close in price as the others (for me) as is the 970 Evo Plus... they're hovering around $350-400 or so.  Sure, cheaper is cheaper, though for this build I'm not constrained by budget.  That said I agree there's no point in wasting money on something that I won't gain any benefit from.

 

Yeah, the Samsung 980 Pro isn't going to come in and be cheaper than the others, but I'm not guiding my decision based on price.  I understand others may be, but I'd like durability and performance, so I'm willing to pay for that (within reason).  As I mentioned, I'm unsure of whether or not to take advantage of the gen 4 drives since my x570 board supports it.

PCIe 4.0 is just more max bandwidth, it doesn't make the drive much faster. You can use the Corsair MP600 with PCIe 3.0 also. Personally I'd get an Adata SX 8200 Pro for now, and get a Phison E18 drive when they come out. They will compete with the 980 Pro and be half the price.

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9 hours ago, PeachDodo said:

Hard to say that I “absolutely need” those sequentials, I’m just trying to gauge whether or not to wait, since I don’t want to wait so long that I can’t return any components if they’re DOA for example. 
 

Perhaps I should be deciding between the gen 4 sabrent rocket and the Samsung 970 plus?  Even then I’m less sure.  I guess I’m tempted to take advantage of the pci-e 4 M2 slots that my x570 board has. 

It's absolutely worth waiting as new technology is around the corner and the market is in the consumer's favor through at least 1H 2021. I keep an eye on foreign investor reports (e.g. China) and it's been "through 2021" since March of this year, unfortunately a lot of armchair economists tend to portend doom and gloom for the NAND/SSD market this year - prices were up early, but honestly not that much. That's to say, the market is ideal for someone who is willing to wait for the right drive.

 

The other side of this is that hardware enthusiasts will say, accurately, that NAND itself is the limitation (versus say, 3D Xpoint). Completely true, moreover software limitations and the fact consumers don't push the hardware means it's difficult even to see big gains over SATA/AHCI SSDs outside of sequential performance. That being said, most commentators lack the deeper comprehension of flash workings where there's tons of little techniques that are improving flash this generation (e.g., "12x" layers, which could be anywhere from 128 to 144 in earnest). Particularly QLC will see benefits, but I'd rather not dive too deeply into that right now, but see BiCS5 here.

 

For example, shortening bitlines and using SBL means you can get 37% faster partial page reads (e.g. 4KB read vs. 16KB page-sized read) which is quite relevant for consumer usage. The fact that we'll see CMOS Under Array (CUA) on BiCS5 as well. This means up to 132 MB/s program speed per die with 3-bit MLC (TLC) coupled with a new 16/12nm controller process node means we'll have entry-level Gen4 drives that will completely saturate and dominate a x4 PCIe 3.0 M.2 socket. Honestly I'm more excited about those options than the 7 GB/s racers, but even there you see crazy sequentials which may become quite relevant for PC gaming in a few years due to consoles (who needs compression when you got 7 GB/s raw).

 

That wraps back around to the "reliability" concept - again, most people can't verbalize the differences between drives. In reality you first have the flash: what technology is its basis? Floating gate (Intel/Micon) has better endurance than BiCS (WD/Kioxia) and P-BiCS (Hynix) for example. Micron is going TCAT with replacement gate (RG) which has the same foundation as V-NAND (Samsung) but will be superior even. So while you're best avoiding Toshiba and Hynix flash, the rest is all quite good (in fact, Intel/Micron QLC is superior to Samsung's). Then there's the raw binning of the flash, e.g. bad blocks per die, which also extends from flash tech. because there's a direct impact on yields, see here. Again I would generally trust Intel/Micron and Samsung the most, you also have IMFT flash on HP drives for example but it's binned by BiWin which may not be 100% up to snuff (ADATA bins their own wafers which is a step up from most, btw).

 

Controllers are almost all ARM Cortex-R5 bases with subtle differences in data protection (e.g. differential memory device for data-at-rest protection), ECC/LDPC differences, algorithms for read retry, etc. However for the most part they're all about as reliable. Firmware to some extent is an issue but quite minor in practice, however drives with a huge variety in flash tend to have more flash revisions which can be troublesome.

 

In any case if this is all too technologically-minded for you, if you just want a "market" response, refer again to my first paragraph - it's worth waiting. If you want the best drive on the market now then yes that's absolutely the 970 EVO Plus. I wouldn't even consider the 980 Pro, today or next year. WD SN750 would be my secondary choice if reliability and consistency is your goal. Next gen, who knows, we have new contenders and new flash tech, and yes we already have Hynix's 128L drives out but that's for a different discussion.

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19 hours ago, NewMaxx said:

In any case if this is all too technologically-minded for you, if you just want a "market" response, refer again to my first paragraph - it's worth waiting. If you want the best drive on the market now then yes that's absolutely the 970 EVO Plus. I wouldn't even consider the 980 Pro, today or next year. WD SN750 would be my secondary choice if reliability and consistency is your goal. Next gen, who knows, we have new contenders and new flash tech, and yes we already have Hynix's 128L drives out but that's for a different discussion.

Love the input and support.  Thank you so much.

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I just wonder if it's coming out this month at all. I find it odd that there's still no mention or announcement. August is almost over. 🤷‍♂️

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On 8/24/2020 at 2:43 AM, NewMaxx said:

In any case if this is all too technologically-minded for you, if you just want a "market" response, refer again to my first paragraph - it's worth waiting. If you want the best drive on the market now then yes that's absolutely the 970 EVO Plus. I wouldn't even consider the 980 Pro, today or next year. WD SN750 would be my secondary choice if reliability and consistency is your goal. Next gen, who knows, we have new contenders and new flash tech, and yes we already have Hynix's 128L drives out but that's for a different discussion.

 

On 8/27/2020 at 12:49 AM, Tarvaln said:

I just wonder if it's coming out this month at all. I find it odd that there's still no mention or announcement. August is almost over. 🤷‍♂️

 

Just googled Samsung 980 and noticed it was added to their website:  https://www.samsung.com/sg/memory-storage/980-pro-nvme-m2-ssd/MZ-V8P1T0BW/

 

Any thoughts?  Is there anything new on this page (specs-wise) that we didn't already know about?  Guessing this means it's release is imminent.

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27 minutes ago, PeachDodo said:

Just googled Samsung 980 and noticed it was added to their website:  https://www.samsung.com/sg/memory-storage/980-pro-nvme-m2-ssd/MZ-V8P1T0BW/

 

Any thoughts?  Is there anything new on this page (specs-wise) that we didn't already know about?  Guessing this means it's release is imminent.

Nice, thanks.

 

Made a post here with pertinent details. This is a TLC drive, the TLC write speeds suggest 6th Gen V-NAND (newest). Limited to 1TB at the moment but I suspect a 2TB SKU at some point, hard to say. I would think it will be priced much more reasonably due to using TLC but it will face stiff competition.

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50 minutes ago, NewMaxx said:

Nice, thanks.

 

Made a post here with pertinent details. This is a TLC drive, the TLC write speeds suggest 6th Gen V-NAND (newest). Limited to 1TB at the moment but I suspect a 2TB SKU at some point, hard to say. I would think it will be priced much more reasonably due to using TLC but it will face stiff competition.

You're welcome!  Based on the specs/details, is there any telling how it might stack up against e.g. the 970 Evo Plus?  And, do you still think it's worth waiting to see what other next-gen offerings come out next year?

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It's a new controller ("Elpis") and I could only find a small amount of information on it, although I suspect it's an updated version of the Polaris/Phoenix with a 4.0 PHY and support for faster flash/bus. Seq writes (SLC) top out even with the 500GB SKU which is why I don't think this is totally new tech per se. Other controllers coming out of this class can do 6000-6100 MB/s which is about the limit of x4 PCIe 4.0 after overhead, for example. However, the IOPS are outstandingly high, so it's probably in a smaller process node with more horsepower - this is especially likely given the power specifications being so high here. The E18 for example can hit similar IOPS but will be tri-CPU/hexa-core in a new node (possibly higher clocks vs. E16 for example). But the E18 can match it regardless, although for consumers it's not super important.

 

As for the flash, it's almost certainly 6th Gen V-NAND 136L simply due to the high TLC write speeds. It looks to be 256Gb/die with those sequentials so I suspect a 2TB SKU with 512Gb dies is likely, which was the case with the 970 EVO Plus for example. LPDDR4 is still the SDRAM of choice. TurboWrite SLC caching is still being used so probably same as 970 EVO Plus. Even the drive layout looks the same. So really it's just the 970 EVO Plus with new flash as far as that goes (excepting the controller as explained above), even the warranty is the same.

 

So, yeah, I wouldn't call this a homerun by any means, there will be drives equally as powerful (and possibly faster) based on the E18, SMI's drives will have better LQD 4K most likely given these specs, etc. This is still a fantastic and elegant design especially if it's using 256Gb dies with this many layers with no string-stacking. However, it means Samsung will have to price it aggressively/competitively, so this will have to be cheaper than what we're used to in my opinion. Consider the Hynix P31 out at $134.99 retail already which outside of PCIe 4.0 is just as good for consumers esp. laptops...

 

Of course it's still too early to tell. Would like to see reviews (which should be out soon), pricing (also out soon), etc. If it's reasonable then it's a safe pick without having to wait for the competition. If it's priced wrong then I would wait.

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On 8/28/2020 at 4:37 PM, NewMaxx said:

Of course it's still too early to tell. Would like to see reviews (which should be out soon), pricing (also out soon), etc. If it's reasonable then it's a safe pick without having to wait for the competition. If it's priced wrong then I would wait.

I appreciate the additional technical info!  For my current build, I think I'm going to use my 1tb 970 Evo Plus, and then at some point I'll get a Pci-e 4.0 drive maybe next year or so (maybe a 2tb one?), and I can always clone over to it.

 

Interestingly, that Samsung link appears to redirect to their homepage now... maybe it was an accident?

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