Apple threatens to kill Unreal Engine on iOS, Fornite may never return

[mr moose]

7 hours ago, Ein0r said:

Even if it is true that Apple doesn't give much about the gaming market, I doubt they'd want to get on bad terms with lots of smaller developers that use UE. And the judge also told Epic off for violating the law to make their case public, when pressing charges would have been enough.

Apple don't care about small developers that use UE,  Apple don't a care about anyone but themselves,  they are making more money of complete control of the app store an in app purchases.  Apple likely make more money out of candy crush and tetris (plus tetris knockoffs) than they do fortnight and half the EU games combined.

 

 

[Ein0r]

Well then.

[Kisai]

10 hours ago, mr moose said:

Apple don't care about small developers that use UE,  Apple don't a care about anyone but themselves,  they are making more money of complete control of the app store an in app purchases.  Apple likely make more money out of candy crush and tetris (plus tetris knockoffs) than they do fortnight and half the EU games combined.

 

 

I sincerely doubt it.

 

It's not a crime to make money, Apple doesn't need to operate a charity, especially not to a competitor in the same space.

 

The only reason Microsoft cares is because they use Unreal for something, however I've not yet located something that Microsoft actually uses Unreal on iOS for. 

 

Not that I think it's relevant:

UE4 powers the ... menus. Yay /s.

 

Here's how Unreal works on iOS:

https://docs.unrealengine.com/en-US/Platforms/Mobile/iOS/iPhonePackager/index.html

 

Also amusing (2016):

https://www.extremetech.com/gaming/224173-unreal-developer-blasts-microsoft-claims-company-wants-to-monopolize-game-development

Quote

The Windows Store and the restrictions it places on games and game settings have been rising over the past week, ever since the release of Ashes of the Singularity and Gears of War Ultimate Edition. We’ve reached out to Microsoft in an attempt to clarify some of these issues, specifically those related to V-Sync, WDDM 2.0, and the current limits that lock down Windows Store titles. Tim Sweeney, the founder of Epic Games and lead developer on the Unreal Engine, recently blasted Microsoft’s Universal Windows Platform, UWP, and called for a complete boycott of the platform.

...

Sweeney states that he has no problem with the Windows Store as such, but takes issue with the way Microsoft has locked down the platform. Because Microsoft controls the only distribution point for UWP applications, no other company can offer equivalent software. Side-loading can be enabled, but it’s off by default and could be removed entirely in a future Windows Update.

 

Sweeney calls on Microsoft to allow UWP applications to be distributed just as Win32 applications are now, for any company to be allowed to distribute UWP applications, including Steam and GOG, and that users and publishers should be allowed to directly engage in commerce with each other without paying a 30% fee to Microsoft. It should be noted that Valve, which owns the vast majority of digital distribution on the PC, also charges a 30% fee.

 

Please Tim, do keep telegraphing your moves. Oh no, Tim can't release UWP games on Windows/Xbox because Microsoft Store.

[mr moose]

13 minutes ago, Kisai said:

I sincerely doubt it.

Doubt away

13 minutes ago, Kisai said:

It's not a crime to make money, Apple doesn't need to operate a charity, especially not to a competitor in the same space.

No one said it was a crime to make money and no one is asking apple to operate a charity.  Please stop being dishonest with your replies.

13 minutes ago, Kisai said:

The only reason Microsoft cares is because they use Unreal for something, however I've not yet located something that Microsoft actually uses Unreal on iOS for. 

So you claim they are only doing for a reason you can't prove?  Not sure why that's relavent.

 

13 minutes ago, Kisai said:

Not that I think it's relevant:

UE4 powers the ... menus. Yay /s.

 

Here's how Unreal works on iOS:

https://docs.unrealengine.com/en-US/Platforms/Mobile/iOS/iPhonePackager/index.html

 

Also amusing (2016):

https://www.extremetech.com/gaming/224173-unreal-developer-blasts-microsoft-claims-company-wants-to-monopolize-game-development

 

Please Tim, do keep telegraphing your moves. Oh no, Tim can't release UWP games on Windows/Xbox because Microsoft Store.

If it's not relevant why post it?  That's a lot of screen shots, claims and links to shit that you don't think is relevant.

[Kisai]

8 minutes ago, mr moose said:

 

No one said it was a crime to make money and no one is asking apple to operate a charity.  Please stop being dishonest with your replies.

I'm not being dishonest. But go ahead and ignore the facts.

 

Quote

So you claim they are only doing for a reason you can't prove?  Not sure why that's relavent.

 

If it's not relevant why post it?  That's a lot of screen shots, claims and links to shit that you don't think is relevant.

Because Tim Sweeny's the one being dishonest about their motives. The Epic game store launched in 2018, two years AFTER that. I'd say he's not having much luck getting people to forgo paying Steam, Microsoft or Apple 30%.

 

The only way anyone would get me to use the EPIC GAME STORE over something else is if everything was free on it, and it looked more like Steam circa 2010.

[mr moose]

7 minutes ago, Kisai said:

I'm not being dishonest. But go ahead and ignore the facts.

 

NO one is asking apple to run a charity and no one said it was a crime to make money.  Two I never claimed and yet the two things you specifically argued in response to me.  That is being dishonest.    Arguing a point that was never made is dishonest. 

 

Quote

Because Tim Sweeny's the one being dishonest about their motives. The Epic game store launched in 2018, two years AFTER that. I'd say he's not having much luck getting people to forgo paying Steam, Microsoft or Apple 30%.

 

Who cares?  doesn't change the facts, no one (And I mean no one) has said anything good about sweeny or epic.  You and some of the others keep trying to paint epic as being the only evil and apple as the only good in this.  IF you bothered to read any of the replies you would have worked out long a go that we think they are ALL evil,  no one is in favor of epic doing what they do, we just hope that it rights few of apples wrongs. 

 

It seems you can't handle the idea that so many people hate what apple are doing.    In every thread you bring up so much irrelevant stuff and make such long posts that amount to nothing.  It really is difficult staying on topic with such red herring arguments.   But I guess that's your intent, you haven't got an argument so you baffle with bullshit until the other person gives up.

 

 

[Kisai]

Just now, mr moose said:

 

NO one is asking apple to run a charity and no one said it was a crime to make money.  Two I never claimed and yet the two things you specifically argued in response to me.  That is being dishonest.    Arguing a point that was never made is dishonest. 

You keep repeating things without any proof, where as I show proof for everything. Then you dismiss it. So you're the one being dishonest if anything.

 

Just now, mr moose said:

Who cares?  doesn't change the facts, no one (And I mean no one) has said anything good about sweeny or epic.  You and some of the others keep trying to paint epic as being the only evil and apple as the only good in this.  IF you bothered to read any of the replies you would have worked out long a go that we think they are ALL evil,  no one is in favor of epic doing what they do, we just hope that it rights few of apples wrongs. 

See there's that dismissive attitude. Everyone knows Epic is evil because the company behaves like it's chaotic good, when it's really just chaotic Evil(TM). Apple at worst could be considered Lawful Evil, yet Apple is the one that actually cares about protecting your privacy because it doesn't rely on harvesting your information unlike Google (who is too incompetent to actually understand their own privacy settings.)

 

Just now, mr moose said:

It seems you can't handle the idea that so many people hate what apple are doing.    In every thread you bring up so much irrelevant stuff and make such long posts that amount to nothing.  It really is difficult staying on topic with such red herring arguments.   But I guess that's your intent, you haven't got an argument so you baffle with bullshit until the other person gives up.

 

 

You're dismissive because you already made up your mind and don't care what anyone says, I'm not trying to change your mind, but "everyone" is not even half the forum. More people have been telling you that your definition of monopoly is completely off base, and you just don't ever try to prove it.

 

[mr moose]

1 minute ago, Kisai said:

You keep repeating things without any proof, where as I show proof for everything. Then you dismiss it. So you're the one being dishonest if anything.

Please quote where any one has asked apple to operate a charity or anyone who has even insinuated it's a crime to make money.   No one has and now you want to turn this into mindless claims about evidence AGAIN.  

 

 

1 minute ago, Kisai said:

See there's that dismissive attitude. Everyone knows Epic is evil because the company behaves like it's chaotic good, when it's really just chaotic Evil(TM). Apple at worst could be considered Lawful Evil, yet Apple is the one that actually cares about protecting your privacy because it doesn't rely on harvesting your information unlike Google (who is too incompetent to actually understand their own privacy settings.)

90% of you posted there is irrelevant, What has google got to do with any of this?  And the 10% I highlighted in bold is not the worst, the worst is that what they are doing IS illegal evil.  

1 minute ago, Kisai said:

You're dismissive because you already made up your mind and don't care what anyone says, I'm not trying to change your mind, but "everyone" is not even half the forum. More people have been telling you that your definition of monopoly is completely off base, and you just don't ever try to prove it.

 

My definition of monopoly comes from the FTC which I have linked several times.  Including links to other government documents and legal cases that set both the precedent and the arguments for it.  It's not my fault you don't want to believe it.

 

[Kisai]

6 minutes ago, mr moose said:

Please quote where any one has asked apple to operate a charity or anyone who has even insinuated it's a crime to make money.   No one has and now you want to turn this into mindless claims about evidence AGAIN.  

Every time you've mentioned the royalty rate while neglecting to mention the apps are free.

[mr moose]

13 hours ago, Kisai said:

Every time you've mentioned the royalty rate while neglecting to mention the apps are free.

It's clear you are not reading my posts.  I have said multiple times that it would be more than fair for apple to charge developers more per year to host free apps or make a minimum app sale fee to cover the costs.  Not once have I said apple should not make money from it's app store.  I have simply maintained that forcing all in app purchases to go through the app store while charging 30% for it is not fair, that is by the FTC's own definition a monopoly.

 

The problem I have with you in these threads is that you know this because you have quoted me saying it several times over these threads and you have responded to them.  Which means you are either intentionally misrepresenting me (being dishonest) <removed by staff>.

 

Please don't quote me again unless you intend to provide evidence I made the claims you accused me of.

 

 

Edited August 27, 2020 by SansVarnic
Removed content.

[Jet_ski]

 $AAPL  SAYS IT HAS TERMINATED EPIC GAME'S DEVELOPER ACCOUNT

[Jotoco]

https://www.macrumors.com/2020/08/28/apple-blocked-facebook-update-apple-fees/

 

Facebook was trying to help small business. Facebook processes the payment, Facebook takes no cut. Apple takes just because you're using an iPhone. If you do the same on Android or PC all money goes to the business owner. 

 

Now I will be educated why this is fair and Apple must take this 30% because it is their right. 

[Mark Kaine]

8 hours ago, Jotoco said:

Now I will be educated why this is fair and Apple must take this 30% because it is their right. 

Well, legally it is 100% their right, no one is forced to A use Apple devices and B sell anything on the "app store" since there are *alternatives* (if you didn't know, Android is a thing,  with ~80% market share worldwide btw) 

[Kisai]

https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/05/tech/fortnite-app-epic-apple-lawsuit/index.html

Quote

New York (CNN Business)Epic Games is still trying to get Apple to reinstate its Fortnite app on iOS devices. Late Friday, the gaming company filed a motion for a preliminary injunction against Apple's blocking Fortnite on iPhones and iPads.

 

Honestly I saw this article yesterday and it felt like a regurgitation of the last story and a place holder for news sites.

 

Don't expect any actual news on this until September 28th:

Quote

The next hearing over the Apple lawsuit is scheduled for September 28. A judge ruled on August 24 that Apple must not block Epic's development platform Unreal Engine, which many developers rely on to create games on Apple devices, but that Fortnite would not be reinstated.

 

 

This article was a bit more interesting:

https://mobilesyrup.com/2020/09/05/epic-fortnite-apple-google-lawsuits/

Quote

As the week closed out, a couple of court filings pushed the ongoing litigation between Epic, Apple and Google slowly forward. One filing from Google says the search giant will seek to dismiss Epic’s lawsuit, while a last-minute filing from Epic Friday evening ahead of the long weekend sought a preliminary injunction against Apple’s Fortnite ban. Let’s start with Epic’s filing. In a 38-page (not including several additions) motion, Epic Games laid out its argument for the court to force Apple to let Fortnite back on the App Store.
 

 

[Kisai]

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/09/08/apple-seeks-damages-from-epic-for-breach-of-contract.html

Quote

Apple on Tuesday filed counterclaims and responses in its legal battle with Fortnite creator Epic Games and is now seeking damages for Epic Games’ breach of contract. It’s unclear how much Apple is asking for in damages.

 

Additional source: https://appleinsider.com/articles/20/09/08/apple-fires-back-in-epic-games-fortnite-saga-seeks-damages-for-breach-of-contract

 

 

https://www.scribd.com/document/475309573/Epic-Versus-Apple-Apple-s-Counterclaim#from_embed

alt: https://casetext.com/case/epic-games-v-apple-inc

 

Quote

Unbeknownst to Apple, Epic had been busy enlisting a legion of lawyers, publicists, and technicians to orchestrate a sneak assault on the App Store," Apple said of the implementation of the direct payment system.

 

 

Quote

In the counterclaim, Apple adds that Epic Games has earned more than $600 million from the App Store. It also asks the court to hold Epic liable for breach of contract and other counts. It also seeks restitution of the revenue that "Fortnite" made through its direct payment system and a permanent injunction banning that payment system across all of Epic's apps on the App Store.

Yeah, now we're onto the damages. Though as stated many times in many threads, digital damages are at best paper damages, and are basically zero.

 

Really, I don't care about the financial penalties here, it's the least interesting detail.

[Kat9274]

On 8/17/2020 at 3:36 PM, rockking1379 said:

Please do tell of these iOS app stores that don’t require a jailbreak to acquire 

TweakBox

AppValley

TutuApp

iOSEmus

Emus4U

iNoJB

there are more but this is after a quick google search

[Kisai]

4 hours ago, Kat9274 said:

TweakBox

Certificate revoked, Chinese origin.

 

4 hours ago, Kat9274 said:

AppValley

Spyware, Chinese origin

 

4 hours ago, Kat9274 said:

TutuApp

Frequently revoked

4 hours ago, Kat9274 said:

iOSEmus

Marketed to hack IAP games

 

4 hours ago, Kat9274 said:

Emus4U

Broken or garbage

4 hours ago, Kat9274 said:

iNoJB

Old, Broken or garbage

4 hours ago, Kat9274 said:

there are more but this is after a quick google search

 

Pandahelper App - revoked

 

Do you see the pattern? They are all using the enterprise certificate, require you to block updates, and all come from china. Of which one of those shows screenshots of spyware/malware/bloatware being downloaded to use it.

[Helpful Tech Witch]

5 hours ago, Kisai said:

Certificate revoked, Chinese origin.

 

Spyware, Chinese origin

 

Frequently revoked

Marketed to hack IAP games

 

Broken or garbage

Old, Broken or garbage

 

Pandahelper App - revoked

 

Do you see the pattern? They are all using the enterprise certificate, require you to block updates, and all come from china. Of which one of those shows screenshots of spyware/malware/bloatware being downloaded to use it.

IIRC cydia is used to install AltStore.