Latest WAN show (Flowplane question)

[StrawberryShortCakes]

Does this mean I won't be able to use the app on apple tablets too? 

[Eigenvektor]

My understanding is that you can't use the iOS/iPadOS app to buy a subscription, due to the way the Apple app store works. Or rather due to Apple's policies regarding in-app-purchases having to go through them, and wanting a 30% cut from said subscription.

 

The app itself should still let you watch their content.

[seee the state im in nooow]

you know, after apple FINALLY decides the corpse to which they'll publish on the app store, i kinda want a rundown of the journey to happen, somewhat similar to this

 

[StrawberryShortCakes]

4 hours ago, Eigenvektor said:

My understanding is that you can't use the iOS/iPadOS app to buy a subscription, due to the way the Apple app store works. Or rather due to Apple's policies regarding in-app-purchases having to go through them, and wanting a 30% cut from said subscription.

 

The app itself should still let you watch their content.

So I'll still need an android phone or tablet to pay subscription... 

[Eigenvektor]

Just now, StrawberryShortCakes said:

So I'll still need an android phone or tablet to pay subscription... 

Are you saying it's not possible online using a browser? That should work on iOS, they just can't add it into the app itself or link you to their website where you can do it.

[seee the state im in nooow]

3 minutes ago, StrawberryShortCakes said:

So I'll still need an android phone or tablet to pay subscription... 

2 minutes ago, Eigenvektor said:

Are you saying it's not possible online using a browser? That should work on iOS, they just can't add it into the app itself or link you to their website where you can do it.

yeah you should be able to access all the features on the web version in safari/chrome/etc manually o_o

[Rohith_Kumar_Sp]

i don't understand why ppl would still buy apple devices considering how anti consumer they are 

[Vitamanic]

39 minutes ago, Rohith_Kumar_Sp said:

i don't understand why ppl would still buy apple devices considering how anti consumer they are 

Yes, Apple should obviously develop and host a content delivery platform and vet each app revision for malware for free! 

 

Oh wait, they already will do that if your app is actually free of charge. The problem here is that LTT wants to double dip.

[Lurick]

23 minutes ago, Vitamanic said:

Yes, Apple should obviously develop and host a content delivery platform and vet each app revision for malware for free! 

 

Oh wait, they already will do that if your app is actually free of charge. The problem here is that LTT wants to double dip.

How are they "double dipping" if they want to provide an iOS version where you can mange your subscription? Double dipping would be them charging monthly for the iOS version AND making you sign up via the floatplane site, which is not what they are doing.

[Eigenvektor]

17 minutes ago, Vitamanic said:

Yes, Apple should obviously develop and host a content delivery platform and vet each app revision for malware for free! 

You do realize that developers have to pay a yearly fee to be able to develop for the app store? Even when the app is free and they don't earn any money with the app directly. I realize $99 isn't much in terms of paying for reviewers (much of that process is automated) but I'm sure Apple did the math.

 

17 minutes ago, Vitamanic said:

Oh wait, they already will do that if your app is actually free of charge. The problem here is that LTT wants to double dip.

Not sure what you mean by double dip in this context? As Luke mentioned in the show, the 30% cut Apple wants for in-app subscriptions would mean it is no longer profitable for Floatplane/LTT. So either the lose money or they make them more expensive, which I'm sure people would love.

 

The issue is that Apple does not allow them to advertise their own subscription service in any way, shape or form. So the app is a pure content delivery platform, but everything else has to happen outside the app and they can't link to anything making that a bit inconvenient.

[The1Dickens]

8 minutes ago, Eigenvektor said:

or they make them more expensive,

Except, that's not allowed, either, as Luke said later in the video (i think someone in chat mentioned adding the "Apple tax" to iOS version).

 

What it sounds like, to my low understanding, is that the iOS version will be gutted to be nothing more than a library/portal for content you already have access to, to meet Apple's demands/requirements. Basically, it will be the equivalent of a desktop shortcut to the website, but not the actual website? I am thoroughly confused on this...

11 minutes ago, Eigenvektor said:

Not sure what you mean by double dip in this context?

I'm with you on this...

 

39 minutes ago, Vitamanic said:

The problem here is that LTT wants to double dip.

Can you elaborate on this? I am failing to see how any definition I know of 'double dip' applies to this.

[Vitamanic]

1 hour ago, Lurick said:

How are they "double dipping" if they want to provide an iOS version where you can mange your subscription? Double dipping would be them charging monthly for the iOS version AND making you sign up via the floatplane site, which is not what they are doing.

 

1 hour ago, Eigenvektor said:

You do realize that developers have to pay a yearly fee to be able to develop for the app store? Even when the app is free and they don't earn any money with the app directly. I realize $99 isn't much in terms of paying for reviewers (much of that process is automated) but I'm sure Apple did the math.

 

Not sure what you mean by double dip in this context? As Luke mentioned in the show, the 30% cut Apple wants for in-app subscriptions would mean it is no longer profitable for Floatplane/LTT. So either the lose money or they make them more expensive, which I'm sure people would love.

 

The issue is that Apple does not allow them to advertise their own subscription service in any way, shape or form. So the app is a pure content delivery platform, but everything else has to happen outside the app and they can't link to anything making that a bit inconvenient.

 

52 minutes ago, The1Dickens said:

Except, that's not allowed, either, as Luke said later in the video (i think someone in chat mentioned adding the "Apple tax" to iOS version).

 

What it sounds like, to my low understanding, is that the iOS version will be gutted to be nothing more than a library/portal for content you already have access to, to meet Apple's demands/requirements. Basically, it will be the equivalent of a desktop shortcut to the website, but not the actual website? I am thoroughly confused on this...

I'm with you on this...

 

Can you elaborate on this? I am failing to see how any definition I know of 'double dip' applies to this.

Apple is happy to eat the costs of delivery, publishing, vetting and so on if it’s a free app. If it’s a paid app or subscription, they want a cut in exchange for their services.

 

You can’t have the best of both worlds. Whining about Apple not wanting to subsidize their business expenses is pretty absurd.

[The1Dickens]

4 minutes ago, Vitamanic said:

Apple is happy to eat the costs of delivery, publishing, vetting and so on if it’s a free app. If it’s a paid app or subscription...

So Twitch, YouTube, Patreon, etc., are also paying that 30 per subscription to Apple for anyone using the iOS version of their respective apps?

[Jet_ski]

Can’t be bothered to rewrite this:

 

[Vitamanic]

41 minutes ago, The1Dickens said:

So Twitch, YouTube, Patreon, etc., are also paying that 30 per subscription to Apple for anyone using the iOS version of their respective apps?

Yes. Subscriptions are 30% for the first year, 15% after that. Netflix, Spotify, Amazon and everyone else has to pay it. Stuff like YouTube and Twitch ads are at a different rate I think.

[Letgomyleghoe]

5 hours ago, Rohith_Kumar_Sp said:

i don't understand why ppl would still buy apple devices considering how anti consumer they are 

Ease of use, my iPhone has been nothing but great to me, I know android has more options, but I don’t have much time to fuck with it, I just need it to work. Paired with my Apple Watch it makes a lot of things easier but comes at a premium too.

[StrawberryShortCakes]

7 hours ago, Rohith_Kumar_Sp said:

i don't understand why ppl would still buy apple devices considering how anti consumer they are 

We don't, the devices are provided by my dad's company every year.

I get the pass down devices, 

 

3 hours ago, The1Dickens said:

So Twitch, YouTube, Patreon, etc., are also paying that 30 per subscription to Apple for anyone using the iOS version of their respective apps?

Yes they do, but don't forget the apps you mentioned earn plenty more then flpwplane and are sponsored by other companies. 

[JustWantTech]

18 hours ago, StrawberryShortCakes said:

Does this mean I won't be able to use the app on apple tablets too? 

No, you can use the app, but the feature it will have will be less compare to the browser version and Android app because Floatplane have to meet Apple's standard and policies. So, if you want the full feature Floatplane experience as an Apple user, you have to use the browser version basically.

[seee the state im in nooow]

41 minutes ago, JustWantTech said:

to meet Apple's standard and policies

in the WAN show, both luke and linus made the case that they're shadowing existing apps like youtube and twitch, and yet apple is finding faults on the floatplane app

 

apple's a bully to small time devs, to put it lightly

[Vitamanic]

6 minutes ago, VegetableStu said:

in the WAN show, both luke and linus made the case that they're shadowing existing apps like youtube and twitch, and yet apple is finding faults on the floatplane app

 

apple's a bully to small time devs, to put it lightly

YouTube and Twitch both pay the percentage fees, they’re not molding it after them at all.

[seee the state im in nooow]

7 minutes ago, Vitamanic said:

YouTube and Twitch both pay the percentage fees, they’re not molding it after them at all.

netflix then (although they don't have a comment function)

 

https://www.theverge.com/2018/12/28/18159373/netflix-in-app-subscriptions-iphone-ipad-ios-apple

 

EDIT: i get that it's a business decision by floatplane to avoid the fee because it makes no sense for their scale of revenue (considering most of it it's going directly to creators), and apple wouldn't be happy about that, but faulting the floatplane app for comments? is that tied to not paying the micropayment fee?

[Eigenvektor]

11 hours ago, Vitamanic said:

Apple is happy to eat the costs of delivery, publishing, vetting and so on if it’s a free app. If it’s a paid app or subscription, they want a cut in exchange for their services.

 

You can’t have the best of both worlds. Whining about Apple not wanting to subsidize their business expenses is pretty absurd.

I agree that Apple deserves to make some money out of it. They do provide the platform. However I don't think asking for a 30% cut of a subscription they have pretty much nothing to do with (other than payment processing) is fair. I'd say it would be fair for them to ask for transaction fees, like every other payment processor on the market is doing, but almost a third of your income seems excessive.

 

Thanks to the 30% fee you end up with a situation where a lot of developers instead try to circumvent Apple altogether instead of properly integrating with the platform. So Apple customers are left with a worse experience and Apple ends up getting nothing.

 

2 hours ago, VegetableStu said:

… but faulting the floatplane app for comments? is that tied to not paying the micropayment fee?

User generated content means your app typically gets rated as 17+ on Apple's platform. I'm sure that doesn't make sense for Floatplane, which—I assume—is the reason they're rather leaving that functionality disabled. For example see the Firefox and Brave browsers, which have a 17+ rating for that very reason: You can see (potentially adult) content Apple has no control over.

[seee the state im in nooow]

4 minutes ago, Eigenvektor said:

User generated content means your app typically gets rated as 17+ on Apple's platform. I'm sure that doesn't make sense for Floatplane, which—I assume—is the reason they're rather leaving that functionality disabled. For example see the Firefox and Brave browsers, which have a 17+ rating for that very reason: You can see (potentially adult) content Apple has no control over.

fair, although i don't think that was mentioned by luke or linus (probably haven't considered, just judging by how mildly defeatist they've been while waiting on apple's app quality team to say whatever they want)

[Rohith_Kumar_Sp]

10 hours ago, Letgomyleghoe said:

Ease of use

i mean if you have to go deep just to change wifi connections. i hardly think that's ease of use. i can't remember few features but you like HAVE to go to within settings apps to change essential features which just as could be done with a notification toggle on android, not saying iphone isn't great, but Ease of use is far from it lol 

[Letgomyleghoe]

39 minutes ago, Rohith_Kumar_Sp said:

i mean if you have to go deep just to change wifi connections. i hardly think that's ease of use. i can't remember few features but you like HAVE to go to within settings apps to change essential features which just as could be done with a notification toggle on android, not saying iphone isn't great, but Ease of use is far from it lol 

takes me a total of two seconds and two clicks to get two wifi not even scrolling. this isnt deep in settings