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[Update] MSI paying reviewers to remove their bad reviews of their products

GoodBytes
2 minutes ago, WereCatf said:

To be quite frank, I tend to take off my clothes the moment I open the front-door and step in my home.

Well, can't blame ya in this summer heat. Though I guess my family would be annoyed if I did that as well :D

Just now, PoopThatTookAPee said:

not until now, no.

 

REMEMBER KIDS, IF YOU DONT STRIP AND STRETCH BEFORE STARTING TO GAME, YOUR PSU WILL FRY ALL YOUR COMPONENTS

This sounds like the start of a p@rno

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Everybody uses sex to sell stuff.  LTTstore.com

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13 minutes ago, 5x5 said:

This sounds like the start of a p@rno

"stepbro what are you doing? oh, i see that rx 6900xt in there. maybe you wanna 6900 in me ;)"

 

oh god im gonna get banned

😕

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I know back then the keyboard on msi laptop are painted on. Eventually the paint will chip off and all you’re left with is are blank keys. Don’t know if it’s still like that today or they fixed it.

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17 minutes ago, NumLock21 said:

I know back then the keyboard on msi laptop are painted on. Eventually the paint will chip off and all you’re left with is are blank keys. Don’t know if it’s still like that today or they fixed it.

I don't think that is the case anymore. Mine seems to be all plastic with a clear section where the letter is.

I am far from an expert in this so please correct me if I’m wrong.

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23 minutes ago, NumLock21 said:

I know back then the keyboard on msi laptop are painted on. Eventually the paint will chip off and all you’re left with is are blank keys. Don’t know if it’s still like that today or they fixed it.

The lettering on my laptop haven't worn off, no. They still look practically new, actually, even though it's like 5 years old now.

Hand, n. A singular instrument worn at the end of the human arm and commonly thrust into somebody’s pocket.

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guess my next b550 mobo wont be an msi one then. sadly. guess i have to see reviews of other ones to find the best high end b550 board for around 220 bucks. 

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5 hours ago, PoopThatTookAPee said:

what happened with kingston and creative labs?

Terrible drivers. Ban people on their forum who talks about driver bugs or seek help that would indicate that the issue comes from their drivers.

 

Another story, was when printed on the retail box that their X-Fi (at the time new) would be compatible with Windows Vista. Only to re-release the sound card to be "Vista ready", and all those with the original hardware who left in the dust. Someone figured that the Vista X-Fi version had nothing special and added Vista support for original X-Fi, which worked great and Creative Labs went after him with lawyers. After a mass backlash, they step back, but damage is done, and they continue to ban people on their forum.

 

Then they officially release the official Vista driver for the original sound card, only to miss feature, claiming that they can't implement them. Buy their new sound card with identical chip to have them they said. The community got together and alternative drivers was made based on the "Vista" version of teh X-Fi drivers, and everything works. 

 

Oh I forgot, there was a period where also Creative removed any product that needed drivers that was marked as legacy... some not even 2 years old where marked as legacy. All Creative drivers are only available on their website, and goes after anyone redistributing them. They have given up on that, and went back from this behavior.

 

Basically, Creative Labs was doing a number of things to try and force people, to, in their eyes, to continually buy their products every few years.

The company never was able to turn the page from the market reality from the old days. Instead of working on making great sound products, with feature set that makes people want to upgrade their stuff, and promote the benefit of having a premium external DAC/sound card, they try and find ways to screw their customers over.

 

Between each event, they always go "we changed! We are not the same Creative Labs as before! Give us a chance!", and guess what? when people give them a chance, they didn't change... you can fool customer so many times... but after 4-5 times... you really burned a lot of people.

 

In fact, ASUS took advantage of this with their Xonar series, which stole a mass amount of people (keep in mind that the market is small, especially now, with the introduction of "low cost" (ahem ~100$) external compact size DACs) from Creative Labs.

 

Did they change? I don't know... I stop paying attention to them. 

Yes it has been a long time, I'll give you that. But I am not alone being burned by them.

 

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18 hours ago, Arika S said:

 

 

Or it never happened and this reviewer is trying to get more exposure. Where's the emails? I have started refusing to believe anything any such claims that pop up on social media until there is proof. 

Also valid and possible. If he never offers evidence for peer review, that's a red flag.

 

48 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

In fact, ASUS took advantage of this with their Xonar series, which stole a mass amount of people (keep in mind that the market is small, especially now, with the introduction of "low cost" (ahem ~100$) external compact size DACs) from Creative Labs.

 

Did they change? I don't know... I stop paying attention to them. 

Yes it has been a long time, I'll give you that. But I am not alone being burned by them.

It's a shame people had such issues with Creative. I always had good experiences and enjoyed the majority of the products I purchased from them. 

That being said, as you pointed out, ASUS took advantage (and some others, like Auzentech, and even Turtle Beach) and released a solid line of products before dedicated sound equipment really started to trend downwards.

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7 hours ago, GirvanaWantsBinnieBalls said:

disagree i had a great VFM motherboard

And I didn't

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<removed spam>

Not too sure what I was looking for in that link.   I didn't see anything I would find trust worthy. 

 

For clarification.    After several years on this forum, there are users that I know are not paid shills, As for most review and comments sites there is just no way to know who's part of the company and who are legitimate consumer leaving a review.

 

 

Edited by Spotty
Removed quoted spam post

Grammar and spelling is not indicative of intelligence/knowledge.  Not having the same opinion does not always mean lack of understanding.  

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6 hours ago, GoodBytes said:

Terrible drivers. Ban people on their forum who talks about driver bugs or seek help that would indicate that the issue comes from their drivers.

 

Another story, was when printed on the retail box that their X-Fi (at the time new) would be compatible with Windows Vista. Only to re-release the sound card to be "Vista ready", and all those with the original hardware who left in the dust. Someone figured that the Vista X-Fi version had nothing special and added Vista support for original X-Fi, which worked great and Creative Labs went after him with lawyers. After a mass backlash, they step back, but damage is done, and they continue to ban people on their forum.

 

Was that Creative ALchemy?

 

If memory serves, basically starting with Windows Vista, it was no longer possible to have a direct path from DirectSound to the hardware. The additional abstraction prevented hardware acceleration as EAX was left in a broken state. Eventually DirectSound3D made it possible with ALchemy again. But by then it was a day late and a dollar short.

 

Nowadays, I haven't used a dedicated sound card in years (almost a decade in fact) . In fact, my X570 Taichi specs -120dB SNR DAC with the Realtek ALC1220 CODEC chip. I believe the X-Fi (with exception of the Pro) was rated for -109dB, which BTW is still damn good! It's just that technology has come such a long way that on-board audio is even better. Mind-blowing 🤯, I know!

 

So there you have it. No audio acceleration, -120db DAC with on-board, and most people jumping past analog and right ot digital with Bluetooth headphones anyways. So why bother with a dedicated audio card? I suppose if you still need one, you're into mixing audio professionally. And even them you'll be looking at M-Audio solutions anyways. Gamers need not apply.

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In case anyone has not seen this yet, here is Jay addressing this topic.

 

I am far from an expert in this so please correct me if I’m wrong.

Quote or tag me so I can see your response

 

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10 minutes ago, StDragon said:

 

So there you have it. No audio acceleration, -120db DAC with on-board, and most people jumping past analog and right ot digital with Bluetooth headphones anyways. So why bother with a dedicated audio card? I suppose if you still need one, you're into mixing audio professionally. And even them you'll be looking at M-Audio solutions anyways. Gamers need not apply.

This is the bit I agree with,  I mix with wired analogue headphones (come at me for that audio punks!!) specifically designed for the job.  There is no way in hell any half knowledgeable person would touch a sound card from creative, asus, etc.

Grammar and spelling is not indicative of intelligence/knowledge.  Not having the same opinion does not always mean lack of understanding.  

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7 minutes ago, mr moose said:

This is the bit I agree with,  I mix with wired analogue headphones (come at me for that audio punks!!) specifically designed for the job.  There is no way in hell any half knowledgeable person would touch a sound card from creative, asus, etc.

Yeah, creative is the worst about molesting the audio with their "crystallizer" crap. Or so I've been told. I'm not in the mixing business, but I hang among those that do. What those guys want is pure unadulterated sound as flat with low SNR levels. "Reference" audio as they call it with monitor headphones. It's not good for listening to taste, but it's essential for proper mastering. The EQ is left to the consumer upon playback to "salt and pepper" to taste.

 

By all means correct me if I'm wrong. 

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1 minute ago, StDragon said:

 

 

By all means correct me if I'm wrong. 

Close enough for jazz.

 

Audio is an art form that is very complex and very subjective.  I could go on for hours (or pages) on the whole process regarding different artists/engineers perspectives and works.  But at the end of the day there is no point unless there is something specific to be gained and we have already addressed that. 

Grammar and spelling is not indicative of intelligence/knowledge.  Not having the same opinion does not always mean lack of understanding.  

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11 hours ago, StDragon said:

Was that Creative ALchemy?

No I am not talking about that.

Quote

If memory serves, basically starting with Windows Vista, it was no longer possible to have a direct path from DirectSound to the hardware. The additional abstraction prevented hardware acceleration as EAX was left in a broken state. Eventually DirectSound3D made it possible with ALchemy again. But by then it was a day late and a dollar short.

Ironically, this is due to Creative with their terrible drivers causing so many BSODs that made Microsoft take this decision.

 

Quote

Nowadays, I haven't used a dedicated sound card in years (almost a decade in fact) . In fact, my X570 Taichi specs -120dB SNR DAC with the Realtek ALC1220 CODEC chip. I believe the X-Fi (with exception of the Pro) was rated for -109dB, which BTW is still damn good! It's just that technology has come such a long way that on-board audio is even better. Mind-blowing 🤯, I know!

While I don't know about the latest sound chips of today (I'll know by the end of the year), I am not impressed with them. While on premium board they solved or near that (depending on the mobo) the audio distortion with the rear ports, the problem is the sound, in my opinion, sound lifeless, especially in the med's. Now my headphones (ATH M40x) has a flat signature, making them closer to reference monitors signature, maybe I hear this more, over if I were to use to other headphones which have their own audio signature which might compensate the audio... I don't know.

 

Quote

So there you have it. No audio acceleration, -120db DAC with on-board, and most people jumping past analog and right ot digital with Bluetooth headphones anyways. So why bother with a dedicated audio card? I suppose if you still need one, you're into mixing audio professionally. And even them you'll be looking at M-Audio solutions anyways. Gamers need not apply.

Well it depends on the person. Many watches movies on their phone tiny loud speakers and for them it is great. Others like the big screen and theater style surround sound system. We are all different, all prioritize things better, and some have never (due to lack of money or other reasons) experience anything better to know. I remember ages ago, I went to an audio specialist store, and tried STAX Electrostatic headphones, and for 2 weeks after I listened to that I was playing with my EQ on my PC trying to find out what is wrong with the audio with my system.... its shit! That is what is wrong! Of course, we are comparing 200$ worth of audio gear (sound card + headphones) to ~$1,600 JUST the pair of headphones (they require a special amp to drive them as well, then of course you need the DAC/Amp on top of that). I have to say, if I had the money, it would be a worthwhile purchase to get such setup, the difference was stunning, and I'll always remember it. The gap was seriously massive. I see where many audiophile comes from. But in the end of the day, we all have budget and priorities, and we all have to compromise.

 

Sadly for Creative Labs (and even ASUS and others who is/were in the market), most gamers, prefer graphics and gaming performance over audio, especially with the increasing price of certain computer components, doesn't help. The huge challenge is that audio is something you need to listen to, like in person. You can't do a YouTube video showing things. Anyway, it seems that Creative has found its market these days. 

 

 

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59 minutes ago, StDragon said:

Yeah, creative is the worst about molesting the audio with their "crystallizer" crap. Or so I've been told.

Actually, in their defense, as I had it. If you paired it with 20-30$ cheap headphones or you typical sub-100$ computer speaker (well now this can higher, if you pay for lights and other features, over just audio, but you get what I mean), the increase dynamic range it attempts restoring, helps getting a better sound out of your speakers/headphones. The problem is that crystallizer also adds (whether it is accidental or not in the part of Creative, as it is all sort of known algorithms that is being used) a signature, which might not play nice with your speakers or headphones.

 

This is the similar as the famous V shape EQ settings that a lot of people like to put. If you have decent audio gear, you are profile fine with a flat EQ. But, even if you have, go ahead and try V shape EQ. Something like this:

1676200314_Annotation2020-07-16234616.png.05e1d221188c911f7c0664668d302094.png

 

You can see where those who like this, comes from. It reduces the closeness/boxy feel of their audio equipement (you may notice it, once you revert it back to default after listening to music), you get more bass which many average speakers lacks, and boost the treble to compensate things, if your speakers/headphones/earphones isn't treble heavy. If you don't have dollar shop level speakers/headphones/earphones, it should not pierce your ears. Of course, adjust as you like. Of course it kills the med's... but then you do like others which is to raise all the bars to the max... and you just end up increasing the volume, basically. :)

 

Crystallizer does a similar EQ effect on the audio as its signature. But the meds is not impacted from what I recall, as it isn't an AQ but rather a attempts to restore the dynamic range from its original state (which it knows nothing about, so it is a guess work, before machine learning... which was not a thing back in the days when it was introduced).

 

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8 hours ago, GoodBytes said:

Terrible drivers. Ban people on their forum who talks about driver bugs or seek help that would indicate that the issue comes from their drivers.

 

Another story, was when printed on the retail box that their X-Fi (at the time new) would be compatible with Windows Vista. Only to re-release the sound card to be "Vista ready", and all those with the original hardware who left in the dust. Someone figured that the Vista X-Fi version had nothing special and added Vista support for original X-Fi, which worked great and Creative Labs went after him with lawyers. After a mass backlash, they step back, but damage is done, and they continue to ban people on their forum.

 

Then they officially release the official Vista driver for the original sound card, only to miss feature, claiming that they can't implement them. Buy their new sound card with identical chip to have them they said. The community got together and alternative drivers was made based on the "Vista" version of teh X-Fi drivers, and everything works. 

 

Oh I forgot, there was a period where also Creative removed any product that needed drivers that was marked as legacy... some not even 2 years old where marked as legacy. All Creative drivers are only available on their website, and goes after anyone redistributing them. They have given up on that, and went back from this behavior.

 

Basically, Creative Labs was doing a number of things to try and force people, to, in their eyes, to continually buy their products every few years.

The company never was able to turn the page from the market reality from the old days. Instead of working on making great sound products, with feature set that makes people want to upgrade their stuff, and promote the benefit of having a premium external DAC/sound card, they try and find ways to screw their customers over.

 

Between each event, they always go "we changed! We are not the same Creative Labs as before! Give us a chance!", and guess what? when people give them a chance, they didn't change... you can fool customer so many times... but after 4-5 times... you really burned a lot of people.

 

In fact, ASUS took advantage of this with their Xonar series, which stole a mass amount of people (keep in mind that the market is small, especially now, with the introduction of "low cost" (ahem ~100$) external compact size DACs) from Creative Labs.

 

Did they change? I don't know... I stop paying attention to them. 

Yes it has been a long time, I'll give you that. But I am not alone being burned by them.

 

I was so upset when my Live! became useless because there were no drivers in newer OS'. I absolutely loved that card.

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Harbor Boxed coming in! 

Spoiler

ASUS actually threatened them with a lawsuit for the TUF A15

 

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5 minutes ago, D13H4RD said:

Harbor Boxed coming in! 

  Reveal hidden contents

ASUS actually threatened them with a lawsuit for the TUF A15

 

@Arika S@Spotty@WereCatf

Seems HU verified the information as I expected. My contacts did not disappoint and MSI did, in fact, shit on the floor without getting schwifty.

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Their CEO recently died,maybe it's related?

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While every company patched z97 boards for spectre, msi refused to put out a bios update for a high end z97 board (Msi Gaming 5 Z97) which was not even more than 2 years old. That's when I decided I'll never buy anything Msi.

 

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On 7/16/2020 at 5:15 PM, Spotty said:

"GUYS IT IS 100% CONFIRMED TRUE.... probably, idk"

 

Was she naked or was she wearing a bikini?

Either way probably still a better build video than The Verge's.

 

 

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44 minutes ago, Rohith_Kumar_Sp said:

While every company patched z97 boards for spectre, msi refused to put out a bios update for a high end z97 board (Msi Gaming 5 Z97) which was not even more than 2 years old. That's when I decided I'll never buy anything Msi.

Asus is worse,they really don't like to release updates for motherboards after their replacements arrive to the market,you can also see their stance on Zen 3 support for B450 and X470 boards - they were against,MSI was for it and Gigabyte was on the fence.

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