Jump to content

Is Apple's Betrayal the END of Intel?

Apple’s finally done it – They’re moving away from Intel and for the first time going it entirely alone with an ARM-based processor. Can they make it work? HOW can they make it work…?

 

 

Emily @ LINUS MEDIA GROUP                                  

congratulations on breaking absolutely zero stereotypes - @cs_deathmatch

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

dang i hope not.

PC specs:

Ryzen 9 3900X overclocked to 4.3-4.4 GHz

Corsair H100i platinum

32 GB Trident Z RGB 3200 MHz 14-14-14-34

RTX 2060

MSI MPG X570 Gaming Edge wifi

NZXT H510

Samsung 860 EVO 500GB

2 TB WD hard drive

Corsair RM 750 Watt

ASUS ROG PG248Q 

Razer Ornata Chroma

Razer Firefly 

Razer Deathadder 2013

Logitech G935 Wireless

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

Frankly I hope not. It would not be healthy for the competition and the customer. And I think some Intel solutions like SBC and enterprise (server) solution are and will be for a long time occupied by the blue team. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

Title flying a little close to the clickbait sun there.

 

But also no probably not. It's a blow, but I expect Intel is a diverse enough company that this just a setback, not a death-blow. They've likely been planning what to do about this happening as long or longer than we've been speculating over it.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

 

Desktop:

Intel Core i7-11700K | Noctua NH-D15S chromax.black | ASUS ROG Strix Z590-E Gaming WiFi  | 32 GB G.SKILL TridentZ 3200 MHz | ASUS TUF Gaming RTX 3080 | 1TB Samsung 980 Pro M.2 PCIe 4.0 SSD | 2TB WD Blue M.2 SATA SSD | Seasonic Focus GX-850 Fractal Design Meshify C Windows 10 Pro

 

Laptop:

HP Omen 15 | AMD Ryzen 7 5800H | 16 GB 3200 MHz | Nvidia RTX 3060 | 1 TB WD Black PCIe 3.0 SSD | 512 GB Micron PCIe 3.0 SSD | Windows 11

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

Do you think that thunderbolt 3 will also become proprietary to either apple or intel?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

gotta get those clicks..... FFS whats with all the doomsday shit around intel these days, it's like people WANT them to go under. Guess competition only matters when you're rooting for the underdog.

The video didn't even go into what the title says....yay clickbait

 

it's not even about doing it "right". it's about full control over everything. Vertical monopoly.

🌲🌲🌲

 

 

 

◒ ◒ 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

That title and thumbnail... Y I K E S

Main Gaming PC - i9 10850k @ 5GHz - EVGA XC Ultra 2080ti with Heatkiller 4 - Asrock Z490 Taichi - Corsair H115i - 32GB GSkill Ripjaws V 3600 CL16 OC'd to 3733 - HX850i - Samsung NVME 256GB SSD - Samsung 3.2TB PCIe 8x Enterprise NVMe - Toshiba 3TB 7200RPM HD - Lian Li Air

 

Proxmox Server - i7 8700k @ 4.5Ghz - 32GB EVGA 3000 CL15 OC'd to 3200 - Asus Strix Z370-E Gaming - Oracle F80 800GB Enterprise SSD, LSI SAS running 3 4TB and 2 6TB (Both Raid Z0), Samsung 840Pro 120GB - Phanteks Enthoo Pro

 

Super Server - i9 7980Xe @ 4.5GHz - 64GB 3200MHz Cl16 - Asrock X299 Professional - Nvidia Telsa K20 -Sandisk 512GB Enterprise SATA SSD, 128GB Seagate SATA SSD, 1.5TB WD Green (Over 9 years of power on time) - Phanteks Enthoo Pro 2

 

Laptop - 2019 Macbook Pro 16" - i7 - 16GB - 512GB - 5500M 8GB - Thermal Pads and Graphite Tape modded

 

Smart Phones - iPhone X - 64GB, AT&T, iOS 13.3 iPhone 6 : 16gb, AT&T, iOS 12 iPhone 4 : 16gb, AT&T Go Phone, iOS 7.1.1 Jailbroken. iPhone 3G : 8gb, AT&T Go Phone, iOS 4.2.1 Jailbroken.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Arika S said:

gotta get those clicks..... FFS whats with all the doomsday shit around intel these days, it's like people WANT them to go under. Guess competition only matters when you're rooting for the underdog.

The video didn't even go into what the title says....yay clickbait

 

it's not even about doing it "right". it's about full control over everything. Vertical monopoly.

You may look at it like that, and you can think of it as another big company trying to hold progress back in the name of profit... hey! that's what intel did.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

This is bad for intel and apple. Intel is losing one of it's customers and apple isn't gonna be using very amazing commercial and consumer cpus anymore. sorta a lose - lose situation

  • CPU
    AMD Ryzen 5 3600
  • Motheboard
    MSI - MPG X570 GAMING EDGE WIFI (Socket AM4) USB-C Gen2 AMD Motherboard
  • RAM
    CORSAIR - Vengeance RGB PRO 32GB (2PK 16GB) 3.2GHz PC4-25600 DDR4 DIMM Unbuffered Non-ECC Desktop Memory Kit with RGB Lighting - Black
  • GPU
    MSI - NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2060 SUPER 8GB GDDR6 PCI Express 3.0 Graphics Card - Black/Gray
  • Case
    CORSAIR - iCUE 220T RGB Airflow ATX Mid-Tower Smart Case - Black
  • Storage
    WD - Blue 500GB Internal SATA Solid State Drive Seagate - Barracuda 2TB Internal SATA Hard Drive for Desktops
  • PSU
    CORSAIR - RMx Series 850W ATX12V 2.4/EPS12V 2.92 80 Plus Gold Modular Power Supply - Black
  • Display
    Samsung - Odyssey CRG5 series 24” LED Curved FHD FreeSync monitor - Black
  • Keyboard
    Razer Cynosa Chroma
  • Mouse
    Razer Mamba Elite
  • OS
    Windows 10 Home
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

Wow that clickbait, no it won't really hurt Intel much. I'm not sure why people want Intel to fail though, we need both Intel and AMD doing well to have competition.

And as mentioned it's about complete control over everything, make macs into ipads and users can be forced into buying apps from the app store.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry if it seems gross, but Intel has been treating its customers like garbage, not innovating, bringing the same but more expensive, and keeping his advances in their cpus a bit secret, this IS a super subjective opinion (I am one of those "ryzen fan boys") but I think Apple (a compani that I don't have a lot of respect to) has taken a correct decision, that will come in handy for everyone in some time. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, keik said:

You may look at it like that, and you can think of it as another big company trying to hold progress back in the name of profit... hey! that's what intel did.

Agree

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

well, many other oems also opt for intel. and intel still has the brand recognition so new pc builders gravitate towards them because they're familiar with the brand. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Phoned_ said:

This is bad for intel and apple. Intel is losing one of it's customers and apple isn't gonna be using very amazing commercial and consumer cpus anymore. sorta a lose - lose situation

yea, at first glance is a lose lose situation, but I think Apple is trying to build a reputation in cpu creation and lower the cost of their products, not for the customers, but for the manufacturing. In the next Apple releases we will see how it turns out. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, keik said:

You may look at it like that, and you can think of it as another big company trying to hold progress back in the name of profit... hey! that's what intel did.

and that makes it ok?

 

monopolies are bad in any form. so yes, i do see it like that. Intel abused their monopoly when they had it, Apple abuse it now with what control they currently have. more control is good for Apple, but bad for the consumer.

🌲🌲🌲

 

 

 

◒ ◒ 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Arika S said:

and that makes it ok?

 

monopolies are bad in any form. so yes, i do see it like that. Intel abused their monopoly when they had it, Apple abuse it now with what control they currently have. more control is good for Apple, but bad for the consumer.

I'm very interested what kind of monopoly Apple does have - check out how Samsung or Mitsubishi are seriously tied between countries, governments and citizens.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

Uh ARM does have micro-ops. Also you have CISC and RISC (theoretical) backwards. RISC is supposed to take more cycles to do the same thing has a CISC machine, but has a shorter pipeline to offset for that. All modern CPU's are RISC-esq at their core as Intel found out in the mid to late 90's. CISC instructions are supposed to do multiple things per instruction while RISC does only one thing. Very few CPU's exist today that correspond perfectly to either thought process and it has been found on many occasions to be completely unrelated to power consumption and performance.

Main Gaming PC - i9 10850k @ 5GHz - EVGA XC Ultra 2080ti with Heatkiller 4 - Asrock Z490 Taichi - Corsair H115i - 32GB GSkill Ripjaws V 3600 CL16 OC'd to 3733 - HX850i - Samsung NVME 256GB SSD - Samsung 3.2TB PCIe 8x Enterprise NVMe - Toshiba 3TB 7200RPM HD - Lian Li Air

 

Proxmox Server - i7 8700k @ 4.5Ghz - 32GB EVGA 3000 CL15 OC'd to 3200 - Asus Strix Z370-E Gaming - Oracle F80 800GB Enterprise SSD, LSI SAS running 3 4TB and 2 6TB (Both Raid Z0), Samsung 840Pro 120GB - Phanteks Enthoo Pro

 

Super Server - i9 7980Xe @ 4.5GHz - 64GB 3200MHz Cl16 - Asrock X299 Professional - Nvidia Telsa K20 -Sandisk 512GB Enterprise SATA SSD, 128GB Seagate SATA SSD, 1.5TB WD Green (Over 9 years of power on time) - Phanteks Enthoo Pro 2

 

Laptop - 2019 Macbook Pro 16" - i7 - 16GB - 512GB - 5500M 8GB - Thermal Pads and Graphite Tape modded

 

Smart Phones - iPhone X - 64GB, AT&T, iOS 13.3 iPhone 6 : 16gb, AT&T, iOS 12 iPhone 4 : 16gb, AT&T Go Phone, iOS 7.1.1 Jailbroken. iPhone 3G : 8gb, AT&T Go Phone, iOS 4.2.1 Jailbroken.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Hunter259 said:

Uh ARM does have micro-ops. Also you have CISC and RISC (theoretical) backwards. RISC is supposed to take more cycles to do the same thing has a CISC machine, but has a shorter pipeline to offset for that. All modern CPU's are RISC-esq at their core as Intel found out in the mid to late 90's. CISC instructions are supposed to do multiple things per instruction while RISC does only one thing. Very few CPU's exist today that correspond perfectly to either thought process and it has been found on many occasions to be completely unrelated to power consumption and performance.

Exactly, ARM isn't really that RISC since it has 200+ instructions now. x86-64 isn't true CISC since they break down the most complex instructions into multiple smaller ones internally. But one benefit for Intel is Memory bandwidth since CISC instructions are less bytes for the same workloads. 

When pipelines were short you traded off how much you could do per instruction with clock speed but with deeper pipelines (out of order execution) you no longer have to trade off how much work you do per cycle since you are now limited by how well you can branch predict and bring in "OP's". So with shorter instructions containing more "OPs" x86 wins out in this regard on a per core basis. Now you do trade off chip area and power in the decode stages but you are on a desktop/higher power platform with deeper pocket customers so who cares.

Apple can't force the rest of the world to use ARM and stuff that is already optimized for x86 isn't going to be moved to ARM if doesn't need to be. Just like how the financial industry isn't going to rewrite FORTRAN or COBOL into python ,or whatever the hottest new language is.

 

To answer the title of the video: "Is Apple's Betrayal the END of Intel?"
Unless you can get strong ARM support outside of the Apple ecosystem where there are multiple entities controlling all the aspects of computing from the software to the hardware you aren't going to kill Intel because compatibility is why x86 has been around so long anyways. Synopsys or Cadence aren't going to recompile their programs for ARM unless customers have ARM machines. Customers that aren't in the apple ecosystem aren't going to have ARM machines unless there is robust software for it. And unless there is robust software for the ARM machines then few people are going to make Consumer ARM platforms. So without a monolithic entity to force it on devs its not going to kill Intel any time soon.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, TheLostTree said:

Do you think that thunderbolt 3 will also become proprietary to either apple or intel?

No since USB4 includes TB3 :) the macs will likely be the first devices to support USB4 this is very normal for apple to pick up new USB specs very fast.

 

4 hours ago, keik said:

will be for a long time occupied by the blue team. 

There are still companies out there using IBM machines, IBM still make and ship spare parts of mainframes that are over 20 years old. I don't expect intel to fall to the level IBM did but they might fall down the the level AMD did if they cant hold down the server market from EPYIC + ARM (there are some very compelling reasons for data centers to select ARM cpu options since you can request, for a manageable sum, custom cpu fixed function features for the given workload that massively reduces power consumption). 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

MY GUESSES:

 

bootcamp will be available at some point, using Windows on ARM. 

 

performance will be comparable to x86. 

 

ARM based laptops will become more popular, of course using snapdragon or something else. many Chromebooks are already ARM, so it's not unheard of outside of Apple. 

 

the PS6/Xbox whatever will use ARM, and then AAA games will be released as cross platform, for both x86 and ARM, at which point ARM based desktop machines will become popular, even for gaming. 

She/Her

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, BobVonBob said:

clickbait

You must be new here, *ALL* of LTT's videos are clickbait, it's one of the reasons I rarely watch them. 

But on topic, Apple was a small time buyer of Intel's chips, I doubt this will even register for Intel.

NOTE: I no longer frequent this site. If you really need help, PM/DM me and my e.mail will alert me. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

Forget the video, just do the math, Intel has 80% of the market, 10-15% of Intel's presence is the apple market, Intel still holds 65-70% of the market without apple buying a single CPU. For now they are fine,  what will kill Intel (if anything does) will be another node failure.  AMD could stick with ryzen 2 and gain sales from Intel if Intel can't get better than 14nm.  Which would make AMD the steven bradbury's of the CPU world and apple moot in larger picture. 

Grammar and spelling is not indicative of intelligence/knowledge.  Not having the same opinion does not always mean lack of understanding.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

12 hours ago, keik said:

You may look at it like that, and you can think of it as another big company trying to hold progress back in the name of profit... hey! that's what intel did.

 

All companies are evil and do shit to score more dollars,  but that doesn't legitimize any of the silly motivations people have for posting crap about companies going broke.

Grammar and spelling is not indicative of intelligence/knowledge.  Not having the same opinion does not always mean lack of understanding.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

@LinusTech I think there’s someone wrong with the script. The A4 chip was released in 2010 and was used by the first iPad and iPhone 4. The 600 MHz SoC used by the iPhone 3GS and earlier was designed and manufactured by Samsung. 

There is more that meets the eye
I see the soul that is inside

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×