True phase VRM or less phase with doubler?

[Cheeseburger Apocalypse]

what are the differences in a motherboard that has True phase VRMs and no doublers  

or 

a motherboard that has less phases but uses a doubler?

[samcool55]

Iirc, to get power to the cpu, using less phases and doublers makes it cheaper, but less stable power delivery and produces more heat. It's basically a way to cut costs.

More phases are expensive, but is more efficient and more stable.

 

Also, you cannot trust what the manufacturer says, they are known to straight up lie because it's quite difficult to figure out how many actual phases it has and there's more to a VRM than just phase count.

[Cheeseburger Apocalypse]

@samcool55 im checking the differences between the x570 aorus master and ultra.

ultra is 12 +2 phase (doubled) 

master is true 14 phase ... 

you're right about the cost efficiency.

i know the doubler can cause a tiiiinyyyy bit of delay, i highly doubt it would be too much to notice by any users. 

still im a bit confused not sure if there are any other differences there

they both seem to have a pretty good heating solutions as well 

 

[samcool55]

35 minutes ago, Cheeseburger Apocalypse said:

@samcool55 im checking the differences between the x570 aorus master and ultra.

ultra is 12 +2 phase (doubled) 

master is true 14 phase ... 

you're right about the cost efficiency.

i know the doubler can cause a tiiiinyyyy bit of delay, i highly doubt it would be too much to notice by any users. 

still im a bit confused not sure if there are any other differences there

they both seem to have a pretty good heating solutions as well 

 

Unless you are planning a system with a 3950x and some high-end custom watercooling parts or even more exotic cooling, it won't matter.

I don't know if it's true today but the rule when ryzen just launched was: get a board with A vrm heatsink, big, small, not that important, just A heatsink.

But with X570 starting at a fairly high point, the VRM and VRM cooling are already so good (even if you get the cheapest one out there) it doesn't really matter. All boards are good, just get the one you like the most

[Cheeseburger Apocalypse]

15 hours ago, samcool55 said:

Unless you are planning a system with a 3950x and some high-end custom watercooling parts or even more exotic cooling, it won't matter.

I don't know if it's true today but the rule when ryzen just launched was: get a board with A vrm heatsink, big, small, not that important, just A heatsink.

But with X570 starting at a fairly high point, the VRM and VRM cooling are already so good (even if you get the cheapest one out there) it doesn't really matter. All boards are good, just get the one you like the most

yea definitely not 3950x  :)))) thanks man...

[Nena Trinity]

I would say a doubler is a 0.5 if the non-doubler is scored 1.0?

[Mateyyy]

It varies from board to board and manufacturer to manufacturer. Like Asrock might advertise a 16 phase VRM and all that when the Vcore is only 12 phases or either way lower than what they actually mention, or ASUS might advertise an 8+2 phase VRM, when it's actually a 4+1, but they use two power stages per phase, which is a neat little cost saving trick, but it still gets the job done. There's also differences between the power stages, you could have ones rated for 50A, some rated for 45A, heck, some are even rated for 90A, but those are usually reserved for high-end ITX boards where space is really constrained.

 

Either way, are you dead set on the X570 Ultra or Master? You can get an X570 Unify for $250 and that's a super solid board, probably about on par with the Master, while being cheaper than even the Ultra.

[Cheeseburger Apocalypse]

On 6/20/2020 at 2:08 PM, Mateyyy said:

It varies from board to board and manufacturer to manufacturer. Like Asrock might advertise a 16 phase VRM and all that when the Vcore is only 12 phases or either way lower than what they actually mention, or ASUS might advertise an 8+2 phase VRM, when it's actually a 4+1, but they use two power stages per phase, which is a neat little cost saving trick, but it still gets the job done. There's also differences between the power stages, you could have ones rated for 50A, some rated for 45A, heck, some are even rated for 90A, but those are usually reserved for high-end ITX boards where space is really constrained.

 

Either way, are you dead set on the X570 Ultra or Master? You can get an X570 Unify for $250 and that's a super solid board, probably about on par with the Master, while being cheaper than even the Ultra.

@Mateyyy the region I'm in right now the price of ultra and unify is pretty much the same... 

There is more fan headers/rgb headers/usb port  for ultra ... The only downside if ultra is 1Gbps ethernet, unify has 2.5g and unify has the led time code, ...i wrote down all specs here... Hope it's visible... My first choice was unify, then i found these...

Edited June 22, 2020 by Cheeseburger Apocalypse

[Mateyyy]

8 hours ago, Cheeseburger Apocalypse said:

@Mateyyy the region I'm in right now the price of ultra and unify is pretty much the same... 

There is more fan headers/rgb headers/usb port  for ultra ... The only downside if ultra is 1Gbps ethernet, unify has 2.5g and unify has the led time code, ...i wrote down all specs here... Hope it's visible... My first choice was unify, then i found these...

[...]

They look very similar feature set wise tbh, and the Unify's power delivery is better. The Unify is pretty much the Ace, minus all the RGB stuff.

Regardless, either will be a solid board. If you prefer the look of the Ultra or Gigabyte's BIOS or whatever, you can go with that and still have a great experience.

[Beerzerker]

51 minutes ago, Mateyyy said:

They look very similar feature set wise tbh, and the Unify's power delivery is better. The Unify is pretty much the Ace, minus all the RGB stuff.

Regardless, either will be a solid board. If you prefer the look of the Ultra or Gigabyte's BIOS or whatever, you can go with that and still have a great experience.

This.
Here is what my ACE has done before: Bones`s Memory Frequency score: 2232.8 MHz with a DDR4 SDRAM
The ACE itself is a nice board and has plenty of features, the Unify should be the same.

[Mateyyy]

5 minutes ago, Beerzerker said:

Here is what my ACE has done before: Bones`s Memory Frequency score: 2232.8 MHz with a DDR4 SDRAM

Nice, what voltages were you running to get stability, if you can recall?

[Beerzerker]

I'd have to try it again to really know, it was a one-off run I did with that.

With more time spent tweaking I know I can get more, just haven't done it yet - One day I will.

[Guest]

The X570 Tomahawk is as good as the Unify/Ace in terms of VRM and is cheaper. Not easy to get hold of though yet.

[Guest]

I like my Itx B450-I has 6x IR 3553 VRMs and has quite a high current capacity. Great for the higher wattage chips.

 

65w like 3700x and lower, doublers would be ok, but viewed as a lower quality set, as mentioned previously.

 

Overclockers should look for higher VRM counts imo. X470 and X570 would be a good choice over B450 imo where most of these boards are better equipped for high current.

[Bartholomew]

11 minutes ago, ShrimpBrime said:

65w like 3700x and lower, doublers would be ok, but viewed as a lower quality set, as mentioned previously

Even with 3950x doublers are okay; unless you go freaky with ln2 most boards will do fine (except msi's earlier low end x570).

 

Tomahawk x570 has doublers and could do 3950x even with ln2; and could do 3950x non ln2 oc likely even without its heatsinks. Like buildzoid said, even with oced 3900x its vrm likely even scales down to less phases because of effiency curves, the vrm is that overkill already.

 

People are way to hyped up over theoretical "better" things that they will not ever notice in any normal use unless they are a youtube channel that tries record breaking ln2 stuff. Keep in mind that the ones promoting this "you want x topology and y phases and z doublers" are tjok full of affeliate links where they make more money when people buy the more expensive stuff.

 

1 hour ago, ShrimpBrime said:

I like my Itx B450-I has 6x IR 3553 VRMs and has quite a high current capacity.

6 vrms? Interesting on a itx format (imagine having to route that as a engineer lol). Likely you mean powerstages (components of the vrm), and these 3553s are rated 40a; in comparison, tomahawk x570 has 12x 60a. As said, doublers or not, that could maybe even  power 2 3950x's oced (as for current).

 

On 6/20/2020 at 10:11 AM, Cheeseburger Apocalypse said:

yea definitely not 3950x  :)))) thanks man...

There, so 3900x or lower then? (Unless you mean waiting for 4000) Save your money and get a decent board that ticks the feature boxes. A vrm that can deliver 400amps even without a heatsink isnt a feature for the average user (unless for overall temps and thus fan noise reduction).

 

As for "normal" overclocking, 3000 series theres hardly anything to gain; theres no sense for "heavy oc boards" for normal use because the added cost might as well be put going a cpu tier higher, bringing way more processing power than any marginal oc would with a heck of a lot less hassle.

 

Keep in mind, unless going extreme for the sake of going extreme (ln2 with highest cpu) the difference between a $250 board and  $700 board is about 50$ in components/assembly and 400$ worth of marketing and a sealbag full of brag rights.

[Guest]

Yes @Bartholomew agree for the most part.

 

My problem is I come in as an extreme overclocker, I like use of Tec, Dice, and LN2.... Which I think you already know.

 

So on that not, perhaps look up the specs if you have a minute....

My B450M-A (asus) also supports a 3950x, but Im sure the cpu would suffer greatly from power limiting even though supposedly supported, whatever that is supposed to mean?

[Bartholomew]

6 minutes ago, ShrimpBrime said:

 

My problem is I come in as an extreme overclocker, I like use of Tec, Dice, and LN2.... Which I think you already know.

No, didnt  have a clue thb, but thats very cool actually! (Pun intended lol); never actually thought that outside of the major channels people actually did that (or at least for it to be very rare).

 

8 minutes ago, ShrimpBrime said:

So on that not, perhaps look up the specs if you have a minute....

My B450M-A (asus) also supports a 3950x, but Im sure the cpu would suffer greatly from power limiting even though supposedly supported, whatever that is supposed to mean?

I hear ya, "compatible/suported" means it will fit and run, not that it will run very good, or for very long.

 

1 hour ago, Bartholomew said:

65w like 3700x and lower, doublers would be ok,

In context of some extreme stuff, "i dont know"; it was just that statement that - for regular users - was way to broad, as if youd run into issues when using a board with doublers for a 3900x or up.

[Guest]

Ah yea, Im on a HWBot team called Warp9-systems (not a promotion here) and have been with the team for about 14 years. (At least)

Have some cold submissions under my belt along with a few other guys on the team.

 

We are definately NOT video youtube warriors, just a bunch of guys enjoying the hobby. We kinda make our business to hammer processors hard and go for high clocks.

 

Right now, Im kinda benching RTX 2060. Im only using liquid cooling at this time however. Card is still on stock air. That may change in a few days, Im not getting clocks Id like to have. There is no over volt available on the encrypted bios.... I cant even unlock it.

 

Running the sig rig with 8700K 5.2-5.4ghz depending on the benchmark.

So far, I have the fastest Aquamark score lol.... I guess thats not saying much.

I prefer legacy benching honestly.