Linux gaming is BETTER than Windows?

[kelvinhall05]

2 minutes ago, Computernaut said:

Okay, the explains it, but sometimes I can't find a command. Anyway, I actually am taking another crack at Linux, this time with Mint using my old computer. My goal this time is to try and make it look like Windows. I tried doing it in a VM but it didn't work. If I have issues (which given my bad luck, I probably will) I'll put a thread in the OS area of the forum, maybe then you can lend some of your Linux know-how.

Please do. Would love to help you. Too many people get scared away from Linux because they are doing something wrong.

[SpaceGhostC2C]

4 hours ago, Drama Lama said:

imagine a world with direct x support for Linux 

Imagine a game with developers using Vulkan...

 

4 hours ago, kelvinhall05 said:

Proton only works for Steam games,

I had the same question. Having Windows games on Linux and Having Steam games on Linux are not the same thing, so bummer. It's still better than nothing, I suppose - and perhaps logical if Steam is behind Proton's development.

 

4 hours ago, kelvinhall05 said:

but you can use Lutris or Wine or whatever for those other games.

I have used those in the past with uneven success. In some cases I got things to work but the performance hit was drastic. Are they true Proton substitutes for non-Steam games these days? Do they provide the same support and performance as the one talked about in the video?

It would be funny and sad at the same time if gaming in Linux ended up being even more locked-down than in Windows...

[Luscious]

I considered jumping over to Linux a while ago just to do F@H but then realized it's not just about getting software to work. Tools such as HWinfo, Afterburner and GPU-Z are just three of the essentials I need to monitor and set up my configuration. Without those I'm left with whatever the video card BIOS has in place for clocks, thermals, voltage etc... Folding is particularly finicky because unlike gaming where you stress the GPU in bursts, F@H is a constant ~94% load. A system doing F@H 24/7 with multiple GPU's needs to be far more robust than even a high-end gaming rig because you are dealing with sustained voltages, heat and boost clocks, an overall more demanding environment.

 

I have seen it happen first hand where silicon degraded on a GPU and created all sorts of errors due to the fact that the boost clocks and voltages were left unchecked. This happened over the course of just a few weeks. Fortunately I was able to save the card in time. HOW it happened is just as frustrating. NEVER install any vital tools/utilities using Steam on one machine and then go play games on another PC - Steam will log you out and exit those tools/utilities you have running.

 

So sticking with Windows (even consumer Windows 10 versus server variants) still has it's arguments, more so when you are limited by drivers, tools used alongside your software and even per-core licensing in some cases. Of course it would be nice if Steam kept utilities and tools running in the background when you are logged out and gaming on another PC.

[Arika]

glad linux is getting better. still don't think its at a point that I can just move over to it. so ill be sticking with Windows for now

[SpaceGhostC2C]

3 hours ago, Luscious said:

Tools such as HWinfo, Afterburner and GPU-Z are just three of the essentials I need to monitor and set up my configuration. Without those I'm left with whatever the video card BIOS has in place for clocks, thermals, voltage etc...

They mentioned a tool for that in the video. I mean, monitoring on Linux has been fairly easy for a while now, but a tool for the other stuff too.

[Dutch_Master]

10 minutes ago, NZgamer said:

I love Linux. But Microsoft Office and Adobe, PLEASE come to Linux. I don't really like the Office and Adobe alternatives. Once those games come over, I'm pretty much all set to boot the windows partition. I mean boot off. I mean.. remove. And also Epic Games.. please up your game on Linux support.

Phat chance you'll ever see those two on Linux But LibreOffice isn't as bad as some folk make it out to be, in fact it's more then adequate for about 99% of Office users. Only a small user-base that require extensively complex macros will run into compatibility stuff. As for Adobe, Linus mentioned a video from a different channel you might want to watch about the alternatives. Epic will only listen when you tell them, not here, and inform them you've stopped buying their stuff as their games are not Linux compatible.

[Dutch_Master]

4 minutes ago, NZgamer said:

Tried it, don't like it

Tried most alternatives, don't like them

Don't confuse (personal) taste with inadequacy of Linux tools that actually do work. Perhaps not in the way you're used to under Win-OS, but they get the job done after all. What it comes down to is a simple: what am I accustomed to and am I willing to change my workflow to match the alternative tools. If the answer to the latter is no, then by all means, stick to your expensive program on Win-OS.

 

4 minutes ago, NZgamer said:

Very bold of you to assume I've bought stuff on the Epic store. It's installed on my computer for the sole purpose of claiming the free games every week lol

Well, if you don't pay, what rights do you have complaining? Something about a gifted horse et all

[kingdom2000]

What is that wood grain looking PC case they were using in the video?

[mr moose]

3 hours ago, Arika S said:

glad linux is getting better. still don't think its at a point that I can just move over to it. so ill be sticking with Windows for now

 

I used it for about 2/3 years a while back, it was fine as a generic desktop that you use for the basics (office, web and email).  But as soon as you try to do anything specific (game, industry specific software like room acoustics or smarrt etc) forget it.  just a headache in a box.  I had to go back to windows when My kids started high school and I wanted to play ESO. 

 

I imagine not a lot has changed bar for a few games doing native support here and there. 

[Fatih19]

2 hours ago, kingdom2000 said:

What is that wood grain looking PC case they were using in the video?

That's the Thelio, it's a computer made by system76, the guys who made pop!OS.

[Fatih19]

I switched to Linux in last year's March to Solus and then to elementary. Feels like a russian seeing the west after Glasnost lol. I also fell into a rabbit hole shortly after and now I'm a regular contributor to the FOSS ecosystem.

[KaratekHD]

9 hours ago, Computernaut said:

Okay, point taken. I have tried using Linux on various computers that I wanted to tinker with, each time with a new objective in mind (usually something small). I have tried to stay away from the terminal, but every time I have to come crawling back. I try to install a program, and yes, sometimes I can just copy/paste a command and it works, but often I have to do some other command first that perhaps I didn't know about, or I have to download the program as a file with a strange extension, then I have to bumble my way through trying extract it, the command is always weird, and the exact steps changes based on which guide you go to. I've tried Googling problems and sometimes that works but it's no guarantee. Windows is just a matter of downloading the .exe, double-clicking on it, and then just hitting "Next" several times. No commands, no weird subtleties. I have found that dependencies are not always installed by the program, sometimes you get a long string of gobbledy-gook that is caused by a driver, or some other program, or whatever not being installed or configured properly, but of course you don't know that, you just have to guess.

I don't pull this stuff out of my ass, I have tried multiple times to do various things on Linux and every time I've had a frustrating time.

It's usually not necesarry to install software from e.g. .tar.gz files, just use your package manager (pacman, apt, dnf, zypper or whatever) and/or its graphical frontend (KDE Discover, Gnome Software, YaST) and you should be good to go. And if the software is not in the repos, you can most likely find it in the AUR or find a .deb or .rpm to "double click and hit next several times". If you are running OpenSUSE, you could even just go to software.opensuse.org, search for your program, hit the install button and YaST will do everything for you.

Damn it, the line down there is there for no reason, and Firefox Android won't let me change or delete it...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

for your program, hit the " 1-Click Install

[starry]

12 hours ago, Computernaut said:

I probably would switch to Linux, even just for the novelty, but for two things: The first is software; most of my programs would work, even my games, but if I need some random little tool to do something, or I need a program that can perform some small task for me, then I know I will be able to find that program for Windows. If I were running Linux, I would think "Oh, look I can use this program to do XYZ" and then shortly thereafter "Oh, wait, I can't, it's only available for Windows/Mac". The other main problem I have is the command line, there's a lot you can do without ever opening a terminal window, and I really should invest the time and effort to learn how to use it, but as it stands just no. Every time I've ever tried Linux, I've needed to fix something with the command line. If there's a problem you basically HAVE to use some random command. Even installing programs: "Just run this one command and you have the program!", but no, first you need all the dependencies, and you have to install them in the right order, then the program still might not work. It's just aggravatingly fiddly.

In a more general sense, I feel like Linux is just doomed to perpetually be the underdog, yes there have been improvements, yes the community might be growing, but it's not enough to make the Penguin a viable option for the majority of people.

You could do something crazy like I'm planning to do!

Get a 2700x, and use IOMMU and two GPUs to make a Windows gaming and workstation VM with my main Linux OS as a hypervisor.

[starry]

8 hours ago, Luscious said:

I considered jumping over to Linux a while ago just to do F@H but then realized it's not just about getting software to work. Tools such as HWinfo, Afterburner and GPU-Z are just three of the essentials I need to monitor and set up my configuration. Without those I'm left with whatever the video card BIOS has in place for clocks, thermals, voltage etc... Folding is particularly finicky because unlike gaming where you stress the GPU in bursts, F@H is a constant ~94% load. A system doing F@H 24/7 with multiple GPU's needs to be far more robust than even a high-end gaming rig because you are dealing with sustained voltages, heat and boost clocks, an overall more demanding environment.

 

I have seen it happen first hand where silicon degraded on a GPU and created all sorts of errors due to the fact that the boost clocks and voltages were left unchecked. This happened over the course of just a few weeks. Fortunately I was able to save the card in time. HOW it happened is just as frustrating. NEVER install any vital tools/utilities using Steam on one machine and then go play games on another PC - Steam will log you out and exit those tools/utilities you have running.

 

So sticking with Windows (even consumer Windows 10 versus server variants) still has it's arguments, more so when you are limited by drivers, tools used alongside your software and even per-core licensing in some cases. Of course it would be nice if Steam kept utilities and tools running in the background when you are logged out and gaming on another PC.

The thing is that software like that has alternatives on linux and oftentimes they are better.

The hard part isnt switching to Linux, its learning a new ecosystem of software.

[RejZoR]

Problem with Linux is that there is ALWAYS just some bullshit. Last time I wanted to migrate all my systems to Linux I found out that my desktop works fine, on laptop I basically re-invented and recompiled entire networking stack and on netbook/tablet hybrid screen rotation and touch was a total mystery to Linux. Then I spent hours dicking around with terminal and installing crap just to in the end giving up and going back to Windows where all of it "just worked". Sure there are quirks too, but so far 99% of issues was solvable without spending hours fiddling with things. With Linux, if it works out of the box it's actually nice OS. But as soon as something doesn't work it turns into complete nightmare to deal with.

 

Also Ubuntu's shell is garbage. It's so incredibly clumsy and wastes so much screen space. Just go with Kubuntu. Same thing, just running KDE instead. Looks and feels more like Windows and is just better. Manjaro is more exotic on its ARCH, but comes in several interface flavors and community is pretty useful. Linux Mint is a good alternative to Ubuntu since it's on same distro branch (Debian).

[quantum-]

1 hour ago, RejZoR said:

With Linux, if it works out of the box it's actually nice OS. But as soon as something doesn't work it turns into complete nightmare to deal with.

It's been said that Linux is a great operating system if you don't value your time. I think there's some truth to that statement, but I'd also say that one should be aware of one's previous experience with Windows when judging the difficulty of setting up Linux. I only seriously started to get into computers when I started daily driving Linux, so much so that my troubleshooting and tweaking expertise when it comes to Windows is limited to Google Fu. On the other hand, I can make a decent attempt at diagnosing a Linux related issue offline and, more often than not, I can at least patch the system so that it works until I can find a proper solution.

 

Linux might be harder to manage than Windows, but I'd say that a decent amount of that difficulty is down to unfamiliarity with the structure of the OS. Linux is less a complete OS than a collection of software parts that make a whole. If that's all you've ever dealt with, it's hard to go back to Windows.

 

1 hour ago, RejZoR said:

Just go with Kubuntu.

Building on this, the default GNOME shell is pretty slick. I'd recommend it if you want something that feels like macOS OOTB. For machines that aren't too powerful, Xfce is a good lightweight desktop environment. If you're feeling adventurous, try a tiling window manager like i3wm or xmonad. They're very bare bones, but useful if you value your screen space and don't like using a trackpad/mouse.

 

As for distros, Ubuntu, Fedora and Manjaro are all good choices for beginners. They each have packaging systems that aren't compatible with other so the selection of software you get with each one will vary. For example, even though the Fedora version of a program will probably be more recent than the Ubuntu version, the default repositories only ship free (as in speech) software aside from proprietary firmware. Manjaro is based on Arch Linux, so the default repositories will stock the most recent version of any piece of software. This also means that you will be exposed to more bugs than if you were running Ubuntu or Fedora (though not that much more, think of it as being on the latest update stream of Windows).

[LAwLz]

11 hours ago, Computernaut said:

Anyway, I actually am taking another crack at Linux, this time with Mint using my old computer. My goal this time is to try and make it look like Windows. 

I don't think that's a good idea. You're free to do whatever you want, but I think one of the problems people have with GNU/Linux is that they re very used to Windows and that results in "baby duck syndrome". GNU/Linux isn't like Windows. There are several fundamental differences which makes it work in a completely different way. If you always compare it to Windows and try to use it the same way as you use Windows, you will just end up frustrated and think it sucks.

You have to go in with an open mind and be ready to adapt to the things which are different.

 

 

5 hours ago, mr moose said:

I used it for about 2/3 years a while back, it was fine as a generic desktop that you use for the basics (office, web and email).  But as soon as you try to do anything specific (game, industry specific software like room acoustics or smarrt etc) forget it.  just a headache in a box.  I had to go back to windows when My kids started high school and I wanted to play ESO. 

 

I imagine not a lot has changed bar for a few games doing native support here and there. 

Not sure when you ran GNU/Linux but I'd say that in the last 5 or so years a lot more of our program has moved to online solutions. Even Microsoft are heavily pushing for PWA, and all of those works with GNU/Linux. So I'd say that the lack of native software people are used to is becoming less and less of an issue as time goes on.

I'd say that 50% of the average Joe would not have any problems whatsoever using GNU/Linux as their main OS, with a minimal amount of relearning (which is pretty hard).

Out of the remaining people, 40% would have issues with gaming primarily, and that's something that is being worked on by Valve and (hopefully) as developers move over to Vulcan.

The remaining 10% are those who need a particular piece of software like the Adobe suite.

[2FA]

Pretty much every game that I even play currently runs really well on Linux. (World of Warships, AC Odyssey, Metro Exodus, Divinity: Original Sin 2). At this point, the only things that don't run well are things that don't run at all on Linux such as certain anticheats and postprocessing like Reshade.

[Senzelian]

17 hours ago, Matt Kovacs said:

Could you provide a bit more details? Have you looked at online forums or even the PopOS website for troubleshooting steps?

Nope, didn't have the time atm. Maybe I will look into it on the weekend. 

[Arika]

3 hours ago, RejZoR said:

Problem with Linux is that there is ALWAYS just some bullshit.

Last time i installed Linux on my laptop, if i ever connected to ethernet it would crash my router and would have to restart it.

[LAwLz]

2 hours ago, Arika S said:

Last time i installed Linux on my laptop, if i ever connected to ethernet it would crash my router and would have to restart it.

That sounds like you're either making that up, or there was something seriously wrong with your router.

[WereCatf]

46 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

That sounds like you're either making that up, or there was something seriously wrong with your router.

To be honest, given how shit most routers sold to consumers are, I would totally not be surprised.

[Nayr438]

17 hours ago, SpaceGhostC2C said:

I have used those in the past with uneven success. In some cases I got things to work but the performance hit was drastic. Are they true Proton substitutes for non-Steam games these days? Do they provide the same support and performance as the one talked about in the video?

It would be funny and sad at the same time if gaming in Linux ended up being even more locked-down than in Windows...

TKG Wine builds. Lutris wine builds are actually built from these, but have limitations due to library dependencies. This is mostly a result of TKG being built/based around Arch, they are however compatible with Manjaro. 

For the best all around compatibility, I personally use.

• chaotic-aur/wine-tkg-staging-fsync-vkd3d-git , make sure you pull all 32bit library dependencies, it sucks just don't pull zapcc
• chaotic-aur/linux-tkg-pds-cpucodename, use yay -Ss linux-tkg-pds to find the one for your cpu. This kernel also includes the fsync patches for faster IO.
• lutris options
  • Wine Version: System (wine-tkg-staging-fsync-vkd3d-git)
  • Enable DXVK
  • Disable Esync -> Enable if you don't have a fsync patched kernel.
  • DLL Overides
    • nvapi,nvapi64 | disabled
  • Enable ACO Compiler if you have a AMD Card
  • Environment Variables -> needs a fsync patched kernel such as the one above
    • WINEFSYNC | 1

I use the epic store, uplay, and origin store with this config, just pull the lutris install script for the launcher, when its done launch it when prompted and then close it and adjust the lutris config. Anno 1800 works as well with Denuvo DRM and networking, However i don't recommend playing anno. This game actually performs quite poorly under wine with significant slowdowns and load times. Takes me 15 minutes just to reach a playable state, performance once in game is 40% of what it is on windows with random freezes. While Denuvo works, I imagine it is whats causing the slow downs.  https://lonewolf.pedrohlc.com/chaotic-aur/

 

As far as just out of the box support in lutris, YMMV.

 

17 hours ago, Computernaut said:

Okay, the explains it, but sometimes I can't find a command. Anyway, I actually am taking another crack at Linux, this time with Mint using my old computer. My goal this time is to try and make it look like Windows.

This might be easier to achieve in a Desktop Environment that already somewhat mimics the look and feel of Windows 7, KDE Plasma. I would however recommend Manjaro over Mint just for the sake of updated software and drivers.

[Drama Lama]

Let’s be switchers

[Computernaut]

57 minutes ago, Nayr438 said:

This might be easier to achieve in a Desktop Environment that already somewhat mimics the look and feel of Windows 7, KDE Plasma. I would however recommend Manjaro over Mint just for the sake of updated software and drivers.

I chose Mint because it is based on Ubuntu which has the largest user-base, this helps if I have issues. I've also experimented with it before. I might one day try Manjaro, since I do tend to hear a lot about it. The other one I want to try is CentOS, I know people who use it regularly and could help me with it.