I’ve Disappointed and Embarrassed Myself.

[Nystemy]

On 6/5/2020 at 11:04 PM, GDRRiley said:

The only reason I know which drives are actually fast (some not all of them) is based on which ones will work for 4k+ high bitrate video recording.

sounds like most of this is just consoles getting what PC should have got years ago, onboard hardware compression and decompression for data. AMD already has this tech if they built it into the PS4 so it would be amazing if ryzen 4000 had it or at least ryzen 5000 got it added. would make a ton of sense for every chips IO die to have that.

 

Some of this also falls on microsoft for not improving their software stack.

 

half of it is hardware optimizations the other is software.

 

I'll I'm happy for now is I got a spare m.2 PCIE slot  and a small 2.5in SSD so I can add a drive when games start to need them.

To a degree I would not at all be surprised if AMD has absolutely nothing to do with the hardware decompression system being used here.
After all, AMD just provides CPU and GPU, and likely PCIe IP for Sony to use.
Though, Sony has historically been a company making their own chips for the vast majority of their products. Its only in the last two or so decades that Sony "stopped" doing that to a degree. _{(Sony is still one of the world's major semiconductor manufacturers.)}

But, I wouldn't be surprised if the decompression system is Sony's IP.

I am honestly a bit more surprised that Sony isn't just rolling their own solution from top to toe to be fair. (One main reason I can think of is the fact that Sony has historically just rolled with CPUs from other companies instead of rolling their own. Likely due to R&D reasons, making a good CPU/GPU isn't trivial after all.)
 

But in the end, if hardware decompression were to become a mainstream thing, I would wish for it to be a non-proprietary standard. So that any chip maker, software developer, or product designer can make use if it on all platforms in need of such a service. So that we don't end up in a situation where AMD, Intel, ARM, Microsoft, Sony, Nintendo, IBM, etc uses different and incompatible solutions to the same problem... Yes, the compression might not be as optimal, but at least it is a standard that everyone can make use of. (Though, to a degree, the integrated GPU in most lower end CPUs might be able to do this exact job.... General Purpurs GPU computing is a nifty thing after all.)

[Commodus]

Thanks for that, Linus -- that's how you own up.

 

This also reminds me of why I think PC gaming is in for a rough patch once games start taking full advantage of the SSDs in the PS5 and Xbox Series X.  If you want to keep up, you'll need an NVMe SSD (preferably on PCIe 4.0)... and even then, you'll be limited by the computer's generalized nature versus the console's optimized design.

 

This doesn't necessarily mean the gap between PC and console games will be cavernous, but we may be in for a phase where console games have more detail or larger game worlds.  Until PC devs can assume enough players have NVMe drives, spinning hard disks will hold them back.

[Trik'Stari]

@LinusTech

 

Some ancient game?

 

SOME ANCIENT GAME?!

 

How dare you.

 

Spoiler

 

[GDRRiley]

9 minutes ago, Nystemy said:

To a degree I would not at all be surprised if AMD has absolutely nothing to do with the hardware decompression system being used here.
After all, AMD just provides CPU and GPU, and likely PCIe IP for Sony to use.
Though, Sony has historically been a company making their own chips for the vast majority of their products. Its only in the last two or so decades that Sony "stopped" doing that to a degree. _{(Sony is still one of the world's major semiconductor manufacturers.)}

But, I wouldn't be surprised if the decompression system is Sony's IP.

I am honestly a bit more surprised that Sony isn't just rolling their own solution from top to toe to be fair. (One main reason I can think of is the fact that Sony has historically just rolled with CPUs from other companies instead of rolling their own. Likely due to R&D reasons, making a good CPU/GPU isn't trivial after all.)
 

But in the end, if hardware decompression were to become a mainstream thing, I would wish for it to be a non-proprietary standard. So that any chip maker, software developer, or product designer can make use if it on all platforms in need of such a service. So that we don't end up in a situation where AMD, Intel, ARM, Microsoft, Sony, Nintendo, IBM, etc uses different and incompatible solutions to the same problem... Yes, the compression might not be as optimal, but at least it is a standard that everyone can make use of. (Though, to a degree, the integrated GPU in most lower end CPUs might be able to do this exact job.... General Purpurs GPU computing is a nifty thing after all.)

Sony does have a lot of work done in high speed storage given they've created some of the camera recording formats but given they mostly now make camera sensors.

They've always ran a custom system based off others IP for PS systems. PS3 was IBM cell+NVIDIA  PS2 was them+toshiba

 

I don't think it needs to be a universal standard phones have different needs vs a desktop vs a server. I'd like to see desktop and server compatible but even then on most server dies you got space to just put the hardware from the desktop chips. the same does also apply to phones vs computers. so maybe there ends up being 3 teirs of this hardware compression/decompression that is fine.

 

if AMD developed/co developed it with sony and the 2 support it both in PS5 and new CPUs it will likely become the standard. We just don't know enough to tell what will happen with this

[clustr1]

Classy move making this video, and I learned something as well (also learned how much I don't know, which is helpful).  Quality stuff, as per usual.  

[Nystemy]

On 6/6/2020 at 12:21 AM, GDRRiley said:

Sony does have a lot of work done in high speed storage given they've created some of the camera recording formats but given they mostly now make camera sensors.

They've always ran a custom system based off others IP for PS systems. PS3 was IBM cell+NVIDIA  PS2 was them+toshiba

 

I don't think it needs to be a universal standard phones have different needs vs a desktop vs a server. I'd like to see desktop and server compatible but even then on most server dies you got space to just put the hardware from the desktop chips. the same does also apply to phones vs computers. so maybe there ends up being 3 teirs of this hardware compression/decompression that is fine.

 

if AMD developed/co developed it with sony and the 2 support it both in PS5 and new CPUs it will likely become the standard. We just don't know enough to tell what will happen with this

Yes, phones and servers have rather striking differences in their needs.
Though, at the same time, files fly between them all the time, so wouldn't be unreasonable for them to use the same standard.

But yes, it wouldn't be "bad" if there were more than 1 standard, as long as not everyone uses their own one.
Since a hardware compression/decompression system has the largest advantage if one isn't dependent on a specific vendor.

We already have H.264 decompression hardware accelerators in most if not all CPUs, so for video we at least have that already.
For files on the other hand, we preferably want something that is lossless. (A bit harsh if one were to have compression artifacts in a text document, or code... Could lead to all sorts of issues.)

So if the hardware decompression system used in the PS5 is owned by AMD, then hopefully they make it a fairly royalty free solution.
If Sony has it on the other hand, I wouldn't be surprised if they license it out for a fee... _{(Not that AMD couldn't do that too of course.)}

In the end, a royalty free solution would be something I at least prefer. Since then it can see wide adoption on the market.

[GDRRiley]

1 minute ago, Nystemy said:

Yes, phones and servers have rather striking differences in their needs.
Though, at the same time, files fly between them all the time, so wouldn't be unreasonable for them to use the same standard.

But yes, it wouldn't be "bad" if there were more than 1 standard, as long as not everyone uses their own one.
Since a hardware compression/decompression system has the largest advantage if one isn't dependent on a specific vendor.

We already have H.264 decompression hardware accelerators in most if not all CPUs, so for video we at least have that already.
For files on the other hand, we preferably want something that is lossless. (A bit harsh if one were to have compression artifacts in a text document, or code... Could lead to all sorts of issues.)

So if the hardware decompression system used in the PS5 is owned by AMD, then hopefully they make it a fairly royalty free solution.
If Sony has it on the other hand, I wouldn't be surprised if they license it out for a fee... _{(Not that AMD couldn't do that too of course.)}

In the end, a royalty free solution would be something I at least prefer. Since then it can see wide adoption on the market.

my point was 3 levels of hardware support with larger devices getting the faster but therefor lager one

I agree

most also now have h.265

You need lossless you can't do lossy compression of most data

 

It would benefit everyone to make a royalty free

[Nystemy]

On 6/6/2020 at 12:35 AM, GDRRiley said:

my point was 3 levels of hardware support with larger devices getting the faster but therefor lager one

I agree

most also now have h.265

You need lossless you can't do lossy compression of most data

 

It would benefit everyone to make a royalty free

In terms of the actual hardware, that isn't really important per say.
Just the compression algorithm needs to be the royalty free part.

For an example, H.264 decompression hardware can vary to an extreme amount from one manufacturer to another.
Some semiconductor fabs can even offer you their take on it as a "blob" that you just allocate space for it on the chip and they will handle the rest during tape out. _{(Grossly oversimplifying things here.)}

So the compression/decompression system's hardware implementation can be closed source and proprietary, that doesn't largely matter. (Also gives companies something to improve and cater to their own area. Like ARM will likely aim at power efficiency. Intel/AMD would likely aim at throughput, IBM would probably look at some crazy parallel system for their mainframes...)

But one can toss the same compressed file at any of their systems and get the uncompressed result, "eventually". And vice versa.

Though, a royalty free hardware implementation would also be nice to have. At least as an example. (But most manufacturers would build their own, to better integrate it with their system, and cater it for their system needs/requirements.)

[joeyjojo123]

"I AM TOTALLY NOT IN THE EARLY PHASES OF BEING SUED BY EPIC GAMES, AND RATHER THAN TURN MY COMPANY INTO THE GROUND FROM EXCESSIVE COURT/LAWYER FEES WE'D NEVER RECOVER FROM, LET ME INSTEAD COMPLY WITH EPIC GAMES DEMANDS OF A PUBLIC APOLOGY BY POSTING A VIDEO TO ESPOUSE THE REVOLUTIONARY GAINZ PS5(tm)'s NEW SSD WILL BRING TO ALL GAMERS. I AM VERY SORRY TIM SWEENEY, I DO NOT KNOW IF YOU WILL PERSONALLY SEE THIS, BUT I AM SURE YOUR LAWYERS WILL NOTIFY YOU THAT WE'VE COMPLIED WITH YOUR DEMANDS."

 

Also, please send your own apology tweets to Tim Sweeney so that he drops the lawsuit, also ~~sponsored~~ links to buy Sony(tm) Playstation 5 (r) products and services in the description below! BTW, not a shill!

 

I never watched the Cerny video, and I don't care to. I've been in this industry long enough to know that every big reveal about a "revolution" in computing has been lukewarm single-digit% improvements (yes, even Zen generations are just single digit improvements over each other, it just so happens those 5 - 8% improvements are more exciting than Intel's 1 - 2%). It will most likely be just all hype. Everyone knows that the sheer majority of games published are multiplatform titles that the industry wants to shove out the door rather than taking care to optimize them. Very rarely are console games even hitting 60FPS, and almost always it's targeting 30FPS. And given that PS5/Xbox/PC are practically all running x86 architecure Zen chips, who's really that optimistic that EA, Ubisoft, or any of the """AAA""" game companies will even bother optimizing for PS5's "special" SSD anyways? And even when they do, will we even see double-digit improvements? Or, more likely, will it just be the same single digit % improvements...?

 

And even if I were wrong on this (once special PS5 exclusive games are launched 2 - 3 years from now that can take advantage of the special SSD) would I even waste my breath making any kind of dumb apology to a faceless multi-billionaire corporation? Why would they care? They could cry their eyes out and dry their tears on $1000 bills and still be so wealthy and successful that it wouldn't matter.

 

To clarify, the only time I see <business A> apologize publically to <business b> is because they're trying to settle out of court. Hence, I'm cautiously suspicious this video wasn't out of earnest redemption to make up for anything to Tim Sweeney, because why would Linus Media Group (the company, not the individual Linus Sebastian) care about Epic Games (the company, not the individual Tim Sweeney), unless Epic Games is threatening legal action of some sort.

[kblocks]

I was wearing my hoodie (LTTSTORE.COM!) and a friend of mine asked if I was a fan. I said yeah I guess, hesitating a little, but then reflected on it afterwards. After thinking about it, yeah, I’m a fan, but realized that one thing I really dislike about your channel is the inaccuracies you (and Luke) commit whenever talking about consoles. Doesn’t make me not trust you guys on PC stuff, but you guys are the last I would consult about anything console related, as you don’t seem to care about that much, nor care about inaccuracies you spout whenever you find yourselves talking about consoles. And you make these mistakes mostly on the WAN show, which nobody but your dedicated fan base watch. And they don’t bother to correct you at all. It’s infuriating to me, as you guys should hold yourself to a higher standard given the reputation of your channel being really informative, and something you take pride on. 
 

So yeah, an apology video was necessary, hopefully next time you try to avoid making the same mistakes. I don’t understand this tech fully at all, but I watched somebody else’s channel explain it and I did grasp a few things, and your comments when talking about it was so obviously misinformed. I was dreading this video was clickbait and you’d double down. Thank god it wasn’t.

 

oh and while I’m getting things out of my chest let James speak on the WAN show for the love of god goddammit...

 

thanks and keep it up. This is an awesome channel. 

[Warin]

I doubt Epic would sue LMG over Linus trying to smarm it up and be overly clever.  

I think the apology stems from the LTT Flying Monkeys who decided to take it upon themselves to hassle Epic over Linus' misconception.  I follow a few heavily subscribed folks that have to put fires out after they complain about something and their followers take it upon themselves to wade in to it.  It is generally a bad idea to pile on anyone or anything "for effect"

I get that LMG is a PC-centric site, but perhaps getting with some console gamers on your staff to check stuff before cracking wise would be a good idea.

[Darren]

Whether there's some behind the scenes action or not, I think it's beneficial for Linus to own up to this either way. A huge part of Linus doing what he does is education, teaching people about things and empowering people to build PCs themselves. To then go out and spread misinformation about a "competing" platform does not benefit his community in any way.

[Zodiark1593]

4 hours ago, Nystemy said:

To a degree I would not at all be surprised if AMD has absolutely nothing to do with the hardware decompression system being used here.
After all, AMD just provides CPU and GPU, and likely PCIe IP for Sony to use.
Though, Sony has historically been a company making their own chips for the vast majority of their products. Its only in the last two or so decades that Sony "stopped" doing that to a degree. _{(Sony is still one of the world's major semiconductor manufacturers.)}

But, I wouldn't be surprised if the decompression system is Sony's IP.

I am honestly a bit more surprised that Sony isn't just rolling their own solution from top to toe to be fair. (One main reason I can think of is the fact that Sony has historically just rolled with CPUs from other companies instead of rolling their own. Likely due to R&D reasons, making a good CPU/GPU isn't trivial after all.)
 

But in the end, if hardware decompression were to become a mainstream thing, I would wish for it to be a non-proprietary standard. So that any chip maker, software developer, or product designer can make use if it on all platforms in need of such a service. So that we don't end up in a situation where AMD, Intel, ARM, Microsoft, Sony, Nintendo, IBM, etc uses different and incompatible solutions to the same problem... Yes, the compression might not be as optimal, but at least it is a standard that everyone can make use of. (Though, to a degree, the integrated GPU in most lower end CPUs might be able to do this exact job.... General Purpurs GPU computing is a nifty thing after all.)

According to a certain book I read awhile ago (Race for a Game Machine), Sony had apparently intended to have Toshiba design the GPU, but evidently something went south (maybe lacking performance or patent issues) and Sony went with Nvidia. 
 

An NVME successor could potentially have hardware data compression (and even full disk encryption) as a requirement. Though getting PCs to jump to a universally agreed specification is a herculean undertaking, not to mention gamers that have been keeping systems going for longer. Having multiple hardware compression standards would be hellish. Might be simpler in the near term if devs heavily bump up memory requirements on both CPU and GPU and let the PC gamers sort their stuff out. 
 

Devs could also roll their own compression solution in software as well, perhaps. AMD could even provide a software implementation of their hardware solution (assuming they own the IP) for PC ports. However, good possibility that anyone running a quad core CPU would get excluded. 

[Promosss]

7 hours ago, TofuHaroto said:

Attacking in this case is a strong word 

I can't agree or disagree with it either way really

Linus called Tim a liar , a shill and asked how much has Sony paid Tim in his WAN Show.
I don't know man, to me that seems like a personal attack.

[JA_Prufrock]

Even if the PS5's SSD really is that good, the only games that will take advantage of it are first party titles.  Most titles for the consoles are multiplat, and won't optimize for it.  See also: The Cell Broadband Engine.

[RejZoR]

5 hours ago, joeyjojo123 said:

"I AM TOTALLY NOT IN THE EARLY PHASES OF BEING SUED BY EPIC GAMES, AND RATHER THAN TURN MY COMPANY INTO THE GROUND FROM EXCESSIVE COURT/LAWYER FEES WE'D NEVER RECOVER FROM, LET ME INSTEAD COMPLY WITH EPIC GAMES DEMANDS OF A PUBLIC APOLOGY BY POSTING A VIDEO TO ESPOUSE THE REVOLUTIONARY GAINZ PS5(tm)'s NEW SSD WILL BRING TO ALL GAMERS. I AM VERY SORRY TIM SWEENEY, I DO NOT KNOW IF YOU WILL PERSONALLY SEE THIS, BUT I AM SURE YOUR LAWYERS WILL NOTIFY YOU THAT WE'VE COMPLIED WITH YOUR DEMANDS."

 

Also, please send your own apology tweets to Tim Sweeney so that he drops the lawsuit, also ~~sponsored~~ links to buy Sony(tm) Playstation 5 (r) products and services in the description below! BTW, not a shill!

 

I never watched the Cerny video, and I don't care to. I've been in this industry long enough to know that every big reveal about a "revolution" in computing has been lukewarm single-digit% improvements (yes, even Zen generations are just single digit improvements over each other, it just so happens those 5 - 8% improvements are more exciting than Intel's 1 - 2%). It will most likely be just all hype. Everyone knows that the sheer majority of games published are multiplatform titles that the industry wants to shove out the door rather than taking care to optimize them. Very rarely are console games even hitting 60FPS, and almost always it's targeting 30FPS. And given that PS5/Xbox/PC are practically all running x86 architecure Zen chips, who's really that optimistic that EA, Ubisoft, or any of the """AAA""" game companies will even bother optimizing for PS5's "special" SSD anyways? And even when they do, will we even see double-digit improvements? Or, more likely, will it just be the same single digit % improvements...?

 

And even if I were wrong on this (once special PS5 exclusive games are launched 2 - 3 years from now that can take advantage of the special SSD) would I even waste my breath making any kind of dumb apology to a faceless multi-billionaire corporation? Why would they care? They could cry their eyes out and dry their tears on $1000 bills and still be so wealthy and successful that it wouldn't matter.

 

To clarify, the only time I see <business A> apologize publically to <business b> is because they're trying to settle out of court. Hence, I'm cautiously suspicious this video wasn't out of earnest redemption to make up for anything to Tim Sweeney, because why would Linus Media Group (the company, not the individual Linus Sebastian) care about Epic Games (the company, not the individual Tim Sweeney), unless Epic Games is threatening legal action of some sort.

That's where you're wrong. Releasing something dramatically new on PC means years of time has to pass before enough systems adopt the tech in order for game developers to utilize it and make good use of it. Or be bold and release a feature only a tiny subset of PC users will be able to actually use.

 

When PS5 and new Xbox whatever its X name is hits the market, that will be the exact moment EVERYONE who buy that console will have that feature subset. And we're talking millions of users having exact same feature set available to be used. Developers have been preparing for these consoles way ahead and even if you start developing game this moment, it might take a year or two into console life and it'll be getting that tech fully utilized. That's just a wishful thinking on PC to be assuming that many systems will have storage IO that capable that devs will be able to use on the fly streaming of assets almost in real time.

[wanderingfool2]

I'm glad this video was created (I was actually thinking of posting the Cherno videos in some of the discussions, he really does give insight to how the SSD actually can be utilized) [And the benefits of console development]

 

For those wondering though the Cherno video link is as follows :

 

 

1 hour ago, JA_Prufrock said:

Even if the PS5's SSD really is that good, the only games that will take advantage of it are first party titles.  Most titles for the consoles are multiplat, and won't optimize for it.  See also: The Cell Broadband Engine.

The key I think to take from the SSD and surrounding technology Sony has put into the PS5, is that it is allowing developers to do things that may not be feasible on PC's (as they are exploiting the nature of custom equipment).  Having new features that are only possible on the PS5 may push for new advancements in PC hardware.  At the very least, it might mean developers target system with SSD's (and make it a requirement)

 

Overall, I have to say though; consoles and PC push each other (the PS4 being the exception, where it seemed like very little custom hardware was thrown at it).

 

The way I always look console vs PC gaming, is that consoles allow a base level of gameplay that developers can target at (and thus no longer have to target lower spec'ed PCs).

[nalyDylan]

Great video! Mad respect Linus, it takes to serious juevos to show that kind of humility with that many people watching.

 

For a PC equivalent to this though, I think it's a hard shrug for all the reasons you pointed out.

Workstation GPUs have DirectGMA(GPUOpen) and the new version of GPUDirect(coming soon, CUDA 11.0) to talk directly to a PCI-E SSD, but neither address the issue of the stream decompression that could potentially give Sony's SSDs an edge in throughput, but may not be a huge deal since like Linus pointed out originally, PC already has some pretty fast SSDs

 

If compression is a big deal though, it would fall on GPU manufacturers to implement stream decompression using either block level decompression that can be parallelized on the CUDA cores/Stream processors, or going the Sony route and putting that compression hardware on the board somewhere.

 

I suspect the stream decompression is out of scope for an M.2 SSD to have this kind of stream processor on it due to power/heat constraints in the form factor though, so it would have to end up on the GPU somewhere or as an entire new PCI-E device, which could be cool but expensive, and another thing eating PCI-E lanes.

[Nystemy]

On 6/6/2020 at 4:29 AM, Zodiark1593 said:

An NVME successor could potentially have hardware data compression (and even full disk encryption) as a requirement. Though getting PCs to jump to a universally agreed specification is a herculean undertaking, not to mention gamers that have been keeping systems going for longer. Having multiple hardware compression standards would be hellish.

In terms of the industry settling on a common standard, well this has occurred a few times before.
For an example H.264 decompression hardware exits in nearly all CPUs and GPUs on the market.
AES encryption accelerators exist in a lot of processors as well.
Another is PNG decompression that some GPUs have.
Some sound cards/chips can even handle a few different types of sound compression as well. (even a fair few ARM SoCs)

And in regards to hardware implementation of said decompression hardware, that largely doesn't matter _{(unless it has bugs)}, as long as it handles the same compression algorithm, it can decompress the file.

If the compression algorithm is charging a fair royalty fee, and commonly used by many parties on the market, then companies will make accelerators for it. For an example, H.264 is not royalty free, but yet its used everywhere. So a reasonable royalty will means that it can spread to be used everywhere. So I wouldn't be surprised if the technology spreads like wildfire in the next couple of years. (though, personally I think a royalty free algorithm is for the best when it comes to adoption.)
 

On 6/6/2020 at 10:17 AM, nalyDylan said:

I suspect the stream decompression is out of scope for an M.2 SSD to have this kind of stream processor on it due to power/heat constraints in the form factor though, so it would have to end up on the GPU somewhere or as an entire new PCI-E device,

And adding hardware decompression to the SSD itself is "novel", but decompression on the SSD itself would mean that we need more bandwidth compared to decompression at the processor intending to use said data.

After all, even some simple lossless compression algorithms can shave off 10-20% of a file's size. (and some algorithms can do better than that.)
So if the SSD can already by itself bottleneck on its interface, then we don't want decompression to happen on the SSD, since that will reduce our peak transfer rate.
There is also the edge cases where the lossless file compression leads to a larger file than the original, but here we can use a simple flag stating that it isn't compressed.

[TheNamelessOne]

Someone already said this, but the only time a company makes a public apology to other company is when they are being sued or warned that they will get sued if they don't retract what they said. That's what happened here Epic/Sony/Both sent LTT a letter telling them they will get their asses sued into oblivion if they don't rectify what they said.
And anyone who can't see that or denies that is a fool and doesn't know how things work.

As for the PS5 SSD ...yeah it doesn't really matter since only the first party games so the ones directly from Sony will use it if they even use it so that's like 3 games and only 1 game will properly use it and people won't even be able to tell something's different. All other game developers won't even touch it since they want to make sure their games work on all platforms the same and spending money and time just for the PS is not something they will do, not only that but no matter what voodoo magic Sony claims they've discovered with their controller, it's still way too slow compared to DRAM.

 

All this bullshit of revolutionary SSD is nothing more than marketing made for dumb people to buy it because it's NEW and exciting and you don't have it. They should've added more RAM instead of spending who knows how many millions of dollars in developing a unless feature that's going to fade away and ignored.

[Sacredsock]

well done Linus for having an opinion, then being sensible enough to accept that opinion is incorrect and being mature enough to announce (with a dedicated video, not just a tacked  on bit to WAN show or social media post) that you stand corrected.

I've watched the channel for a good few years now, and will continue to watch.

[nalyDylan]

9 hours ago, Nystemy said:

And adding hardware decompression to the SSD itself is "novel", but decompression on the SSD itself would mean that we need more bandwidth compared to decompression at the processor intending to use said data.

After all, even some simple lossless compression algorithms can shave off 10-20% of a file's size. (and some algorithms can do better than that.)
So if the SSD can already by itself bottleneck on its interface, then we don't want decompression to happen on the SSD, since that will reduce our peak transfer rate.
There is also the edge cases where the lossless file compression leads to a larger file than the original, but here we can use a simple flag stating that it isn't compressed.

Yah, I hadn't considered the PCI-E bandwidth limits. So it would ultimately have to be on the GPU. I'm hesitant to compare it to something like H264/265 or especially the PNG decompression just because of the scale, H265 is usually <100mbit, and we're talking about 10+ Gbit/s stream decompression, that's huge and is going to take a fairly beefy processor and probably HBM2 memory for the bandwidth to be able to do this while also rendering graphics, I know the PS5 uses GDDR6 but it's the console advantage to be able to optimize for specific hardware that will make the difference probably.

[GDRRiley]

6 hours ago, TheNamelessOne said:

Someone already said this, but the only time a company makes a public apology to other company is when they are being sued or warned that they will get sued if they don't retract what they said. That's what happened here Epic/Sony/Both sent LTT a letter telling them they will get their asses sued into oblivion if they don't rectify what they said.

BS. this is purely linus owning up to and admitting he was wrong. ever hear of this set?

@LinusTech

[wanderingfool2]

14 hours ago, TheNamelessOne said:

All this bullshit of revolutionary SSD is nothing more than marketing made for dumb people to buy it because it's NEW and exciting and you don't have it. They should've added more RAM instead of spending who knows how many millions of dollars in developing a unless feature that's going to fade away and ignored.

Honestly, watch Cherno's video series where he goes over it from a game developer's perspective...it is a lot more than marketing.  The tl;dr is that it allows for less restrictive game design.  Throwing more RAM at the solution wouldn't solve the problem, as you would effectively need a lot more RAM (and thus raising the price).  The idea behind the direct streaming of SSD to RAM without really CPU intervention is that you can now you only need to buffer around 1 second of render-able objects.  (An example is imagine flying around a detailed city very quickly, you would have pop-ins, or lower res buildings/scenery...this isn't possible with more RAM...or at least you would potentially need a lot more RAM).

 

Yes, the benefits will only initially show up in the PS5 exclusives, but if enough games begin to utilize it (or enough people question why it isn't on PC) then it will push PC hardware (or pc requirements up) which is a good thing for PC gamers.

 

Could this be done on a PC...yes, but there are caveats in that game devs. have to build to a lower spec'ed system (which might include slow harddrives)

[GDRRiley]

10 minutes ago, wanderingfool2 said:

this isn't possible with more RAM...or at least you would potentially need a lot more RAM).

it fully could be done if games used more ram. most use so little. nothing says a game can't take up say 12gb. I wish games would ask how much ram you want to give so I can feed some of them like 20gb so that I got less loaded during gaming.

its just a cleaver hack to require less ram/vram. Most PC now have 8-16 of ram and at least 4 if not 6-8gb of vram. vs the 16 total on PS5