Hobbyist electronic musician who mixes with phones now looking for studio monitors ($400-$500 CAD) and audio interface ($150-$200 CAD) recommendations

[The Flying Sloth]

13 minutes ago, PopsiclesInMyCellar said:

The UMC404HD is within my budget too and has more inputs/outputs. Any reason to not get that one over the UMC202HD?

Price is the only reason, if you don't use inputs now there may not be a reason to get the extra two inputs.
The 404 also has inserts though so if you ever picked up hardware effects units (compressors, EQs etc) you could use them with it.

In the end it's up to you, if you think you might need more than two inputs then it might be worth it for you.

[PopsiclesInMyCellar]

25 minutes ago, The Flying Sloth said:

Price is the only reason, if you don't use inputs now there may not be a reason to get the extra two inputs.
The 404 also has inserts though so if you ever picked up hardware effects units (compressors, EQs etc) you could use them with it.

In the end it's up to you, if you think you might need more than two inputs then it might be worth it for you.

Thanks! So this one seems to sell for between $200-$250. Do you know of a better interface within that range? Four channel M-Audio and Focusrites seem to be much more expense than that.

[The Flying Sloth]

2 minutes ago, PopsiclesInMyCellar said:

Thanks! So this one seems to sell for between $200-$250. Do you know of a better interface within that range? Four channel M-Audio and Focusrites seem to be much more expense than that.

Again, there isn't anything 'better' than the Behringer gear in the same price range, it's a budget German brand owned by the same multinational that own Midas, Tannoy and other huge names int he audio business. I bought my UMC1820 for not much more than 250 from Thomann (and the 404HD usually goes for about 190 here) so I'd suggest you look there instead of wherever you're looking now because those prices seem awfully, well, awful.

[PopsiclesInMyCellar]

5 minutes ago, The Flying Sloth said:

Again, there isn't anything 'better' than the Behringer gear in the same price range, it's a budget German brand owned by the same multinational that own Midas, Tannoy and other huge names int he audio business. I bought my UMC1820 for not much more than 250 from Thomann (and the 404HD usually goes for about 190 here) so I'd suggest you look there instead of wherever you're looking now because those prices seem awfully, well, awful.

I am speaking in Canadian currency. $200 CAD is about $148 USD right now. Maybe that's it?

[The Flying Sloth]

25 minutes ago, PopsiclesInMyCellar said:

I am speaking in Canadian currency. $200 CAD is about $148 USD right now. Maybe that's it?

And I'm speaking in AUD which is roughly equivalent to CAD

[AndreasS]

Hi guys,

 

just some additional ideas:

 

1. Monitors:

The yamaha ones are straight up honest. They have a pretty linear sound.

They are a classic one in a lot of studios and you can add a sub, if you need.

An additional pair, which I would recommend especially for small rooms and electronic music are the krk (https://www.krksys.com/Studio-Monitors/ROKIT-5-G4).

 

2. The interface:

Behringer here in germany has a bit bad reputation for burnt out circuits and failing components.

It's cheap and ok, but will destroy your experience with the monitors.

I would go for either a focusrite one or native instruments:
- Native Komplete Audio 2 or Audio 6 MK II

- Focusrite Scarlett 2i2

Or even the bigger ones.

 

Also look up used ones. A lot of those get sold for half the price as used ones.

The HS5s and the KRK Rokit 6 G3 and the Native Instruments Interfaces are super common and you should find them easily.

 

Best

[PopsiclesInMyCellar]

20 hours ago, The Flying Sloth said:

And I'm speaking in AUD which is roughly equivalent to CAD

I checked it on Amazon again today and it went down to $179, not bad? I purchased it, but it's out of stock and hopefully getting some in soon.

[Derkoli]

12 hours ago, AndreasS said:

2. The interface:

Behringer here in germany has a bit bad reputation for burnt out circuits and failing components.

Yeah they used to have that issue. But now they, to be simple, copy alot of other peoples circuits, plop it into an enclosure with some MIDAS pre's, then sell it for much cheaper, but with somewhat similar quality.

 

Behringer stuff is honestly quite good now. Although their business model is a bit "eh" to some people, I think it's great that they can get quality to people at a cheaper price. The audio industry honestly isn't exactly huge, so new people are generally always appreciated.

[The Flying Sloth]

12 hours ago, AndreasS said:

Behringer here in germany has a bit bad reputation for burnt out circuits and failing components.

I'm with @Derkoli, they used to have that reputation but in the past decade or so their stuff has been damn good for the money, heck, the ADA8200 was in a shot out against the Lynx Aurora 16 and most respondents preferred the 8200. The MA400 is just about the cheapest studio headphone amp out there and it can power 600 ohm sets to painful levels without distortion (or so I've been told), the HA8000 is the same except it powers 8 to painful levels without distortion. The Model D synth is a near perfect Mini Moog clone and so on and so on yada yada, basically Behringer is good yada yada.

Jokes aside, it's stupid value to the point where people (swissonic mostly) are copying the Behringer circuits even though Behringer are the most notorious circuit copiers in the mainstream audio industry (well, except every single Chinese mic manufacturer who copies the Neumann driver circuit with the wrong capsule).

[Derkoli]

2 minutes ago, The Flying Sloth said:

(well, except every single Chinese mic manufacturer who copies the Neumann driver circuit with the wrong capsule).

I can hear the sibilance from here haha.

[The Flying Sloth]

23 minutes ago, Derkoli said:

I can hear the sibilance from here haha.

"I think I sounded better on my MXL/CAD/Marantz Pro/Studio Projects/Nady/Apex/Joe Meek than your nice tube mic or boutique mic with the same driver circuit but uses a custom edge terminated capsule so the mic isn't SO GOD DAMNED BRIGHT"

At least I have the artist with me so I can just get a take on a better mic for their voice and secretly use that instead, you don't get that luxury.

[Derkoli]

5 minutes ago, The Flying Sloth said:

At least I have the artist with me so I can just get a take on a better mic for their voice and secretly use that instead, you don't get that luxury.

Honest to god, since working remotely, I've gotten some of the most sibilant, distorted, heart wrenching vocal samples from clients. Just makes me want to quit my entire job, sell any studio gear and go back to theatre/show rigging.

[The Flying Sloth]

6 minutes ago, Derkoli said:

Honest to god, since working remotely, I've gotten some of the most sibilant, distorted, heart wrenching vocal samples from clients. Just makes me want to quit my entire job, sell any studio gear and go back to theatre/show rigging.

I think almost everyone in the industry knows that feeling all too well...

[Derkoli]

25 minutes ago, The Flying Sloth said:

I think almost everyone in the industry knows that feeling all too well...

Sadly. I always seem to find the sibilance when my monitors are at -0dB accidentally and I get 131dB of 4kHz ear rape the moment I press play.

[kasugatei]

14 hours ago, AndreasS said:

Behringer here in germany has a bit bad reputation for burnt out circuits and failing components.

In my home country when I was high school student Behringer also had bad reputation. I would say it is not the case anymore. When you say Behringer products, I will tell you that the following highly renowned brands are owned and manufactured by Behringer and lots of them in the same factory as Behringer branded stuff:

- Midas (AFAIK all digital consoles are made in China)

- TC Electronic

- Turbosound (not sure where they are making their PA systems now)

- Klark Teknik

...

 

Super low prices on some of the portfolio of those makers is there because R&D cost is low because of huge amount of IP owned by those brands and highly sophisticated manufacturing lines of the factory. I heard that they can manufacture from start to finish outboard unit in 2 minutes which means that manufacturing is highly optimized and low cost.

 

Behringer also owns Coolaudio. 99.9% of the people here never heard of that company, but they are responsible for bringing back discontinued ICs used to be made by Panasonic and similar big companies which were responsible for the characteristic sound of some of the well known audio devices. That is why these days we see more and more reissues of classical audio devices for low prices.

 

[AndreasS]

2 hours ago, Niksa said:

In my home country when I was high school student Behringer also had bad reputation. I would say it is not the case anymore.

 

I think that's true for all the new stuff they did in last couple of years, that is more hardware based. For the Interfaces, I had a couple from them and in the same price range the focusrite and Native Instruments card still sound better for me (Taste  and needs are different) and get longer updates for the drivers.

I had a lot of fun  with sound cards and Windows Updates and other stuff and there you need a good driver support. 

Another point is that they gonna sell a lot easier, if you want to switch to something different. Still have an old behringer soundcard here, because nobody wanted it. Same applies to the monitors sometimes. 

[e.xdn]

Kanto YU4s are just about some of my favourite monitors I've ever listened to, because the sound they deliver carries across devices beautifully. Mix on them and you'll be just fine on AirPods, phone speakers, TVs, car stereos, the whole friggin thing. You can find em here and even better, they're made by a Canadian company!

[PopsiclesInMyCellar]

On 6/3/2020 at 7:36 PM, The Flying Sloth said:

I'm with @Derkoli, they used to have that reputation but in the past decade or so their stuff has been damn good for the money, heck, the ADA8200 was in a shot out against the Lynx Aurora 16 and most respondents preferred the 8200. The MA400 is just about the cheapest studio headphone amp out there and it can power 600 ohm sets to painful levels without distortion (or so I've been told), the HA8000 is the same except it powers 8 to painful levels without distortion. The Model D synth is a near perfect Mini Moog clone and so on and so on yada yada, basically Behringer is good yada yada.

Jokes aside, it's stupid value to the point where people (swissonic mostly) are copying the Behringer circuits even though Behringer are the most notorious circuit copiers in the mainstream audio industry (well, except every single Chinese mic manufacturer who copies the Neumann driver circuit with the wrong capsule).

I received the Behringer UMC404HD in the mail today! Still waiting on the studio monitors.

I have a question about where to turn the knobs to. Is it proper to have the Mix/Main/Phones knobs cranked to the right, and the adjust the volume from my computer? Or should I have my computer output audio turned to max and then do further adjustments on the knobs?

[kokakolia]

On 6/1/2020 at 9:51 PM, PopsiclesInMyCellar said:

I don't know if Visions has the speakers. I ordered from Sweetwater for cheapest price online. THE JBL 305P's were only like $150 CAD per (amazon was $250 and local store Long & McQuade were $250).

That's a really good price for what you get. So... you get a pass! 

 

Visions is a magical place for speakers and headphones. I can't say that enough. You'll never find what you're looking for, but you'll get something amazing for the price. 

 

I mean, the NAD Viso HP50 for $100 CAD is burglary. You can mix with that headphone. It's perfectly neutral. 

[The Flying Sloth]

15 hours ago, PopsiclesInMyCellar said:

I received the Behringer UMC404HD in the mail today! Still waiting on the studio monitors.

I have a question about where to turn the knobs to. Is it proper to have the Mix/Main/Phones knobs cranked to the right, and the adjust the volume from my computer? Or should I have my computer output audio turned to max and then do further adjustments on the knobs?

Computer output to max, always, control volume from the physical knobs on the interface, Always.

[Derkoli]

19 hours ago, PopsiclesInMyCellar said:

I received the Behringer UMC404HD in the mail today! Still waiting on the studio monitors.

I have a question about where to turn the knobs to. Is it proper to have the Mix/Main/Phones knobs cranked to the right, and the adjust the volume from my computer? Or should I have my computer output audio turned to max and then do further adjustments on the knobs?

Quick copy paste from another one of my posts, explaining why windows should be set to 100% volume:

 

Set windows to 100, and control the volume from the interface.

 

There's a reason why high quality streaming services allow you to set them to output -0dB signals, it's because of bit depth issues. Bit depth affects all sorts of things, such as SNR, Dynamic Range, Overall detail, Quantization error's, among other things. It especially matters as they use PCM sources, not Non-PCM.

 

You'll mostly hear bit depth issues when listening for details and dynamic range. It's a big reason why DAW's use 24bit+ floating points. Dynamic range is limited to 96dB with CD quality (16bit) floating points, which isn't very much. A really good quality PA system in a very quiet room could hit 140dB of dynamic range, but this isn't really attainable. The maximum Dynamic Range I can realistically achieve is ~112dB on a quiet day.

 

With a 24 bit floating point we can achieve 144dB of dynamic range, minus equipment noise that's added to the final product, 32 bit can achieve 1528dB of dynamic range, which is silly, but can afford mistakes during recording/mixing/mastering, as gains really can be set anywhere, but really shouldn't be.

 

Good DAC's should be able to afford 20bits+ of dynamic range, but not all can. Hence why windows volume should be set to 100, as it affords you more dynamic range and detail. Giving a headphone amplifier/audio interface alot of signal usually means you can turn it down aswell, which would lower background noise. So it also helps your SNR.

[PopsiclesInMyCellar]

7 hours ago, The Flying Sloth said:

Computer output to max, always, control volume from the physical knobs on the interface, Always.

Ok, so computer audio at 100%, then control audio levels at interface, BUT... What about my monitor levels? They have input volume controls on the back as well.

[The Flying Sloth]

2 minutes ago, PopsiclesInMyCellar said:

Ok, so computer audio at 100%, then control audio levels at interface, BUT... What about my monitor levels? They have input volume controls on the back as well.

Set them at a reasonable level so that your maximum volume on the interface is roughly where you want maximum volume to be for listening, use the controls to balance audio from left and right sides, to do this download a sound meter app for your phone, sick it where your head will be and modify the volume such that both sides produce the same level when panned left or right (using the sound meter to quantify).

[PopsiclesInMyCellar]

2 minutes ago, The Flying Sloth said:

Set them at a reasonable level so that your maximum volume on the interface is roughly where you want maximum volume to be for listening, use the controls to balance audio from left and right sides, to do this download a sound meter app for your phone, sick it where your head will be and modify the volume such that both sides produce the same level when panned left or right (using the sound meter to quantify).

Very helpful! Thank you!  

[The Flying Sloth]

Note, the DB figure on the app will not be correct but you can still set gain so that each speaker hits the same number which should mean identical audible gain on each side. Personally I use this tone generator when levelling but pink noise is technically a better option.