3800mhz CL14 @ 1.5v vs 4400mhz CL19 @ 1.45v - which is better?

[JoostinOnline]

45 minutes ago, spartacus216 said:

lol, no problem. Just curious, but what made you come to this conclusion? I know when you do the math, the latency IS in fact lower on the 3800mhz kit but does the 4400mhz speed make up for that enough if both are the same price and both on the QVL?

The general rule is to divide the frequency by the latency. The higher number is better. In this case it would be the 3800MHz kit. That being said, they're so close that I doubt you would even notice a difference.

 

[Jurrunio]

2 minutes ago, TofuHaroto said:

Oh definitely the trident z imo 

That thermal take ram is also b die if I recall correctly but I have not seen any reviews on it 

No it's not, TT RAM 4400MHz runs 19-25-25 timings which is Hynix DJR or Micron Rev.E stats.

[Haro]

1 minute ago, Jurrunio said:

No it's not, TT RAM 4400MHz runs 19-25-25 timings which is Hynix DJR or Micron Rev.E stats.

Oh so even worse that I thought lol 

As I said I have not seen a review on these only quick talk 

Edited May 28, 2020 by TofuHaroto
Typo

[spartacus216]

Just now, Jurrunio said:

No it's not, TT RAM 4400MHz runs 19-25-25 timings which is Hynix DJR or Micron Rev.E stats.

Hynix. I looked it up to be sure. Is that good or bad or just opinion?

[Jurrunio]

Just now, spartacus216 said:

Hynix. I looked it up to be sure. Is that good or bad or just opinion?

If you dont go super high frequency B-die is always better. B-die does falter above 4500 as memory controllers arent capable of running it well at high speeds compared to Hynix or Crucial stuff.

[spartacus216]

1 minute ago, Jurrunio said:

If you dont go super high frequency B-die is always better. B-die does falter above 4500 as memory controllers arent capable of running it well at high speeds compared to Hynix or Crucial stuff.

Why is b-die better?

[Haro]

1 minute ago, spartacus216 said:

Why is b-die better?

It's usually binned and tested to work at high frequencies and low latency 

[Jurrunio]

Just now, spartacus216 said:

Why is b-die better?

Well binned ones do lower timings than the best bins from other die types below 4500MHz.

 

Samsung B-die is heavily binned which means B-die in slow bins (say 3200 CL16) is much worse than Hynix or Crucial in the same bin (i.e. the good stuff are far less likely to end up on low rated kits). That's why the previous statement doesnt apply to bad bins of B-die.

[spartacus216]

Oh okay, thanks!

[Haro]

1 minute ago, spartacus216 said:

Oh okay, thanks!

Good luck with the build or upgrade 

Either on of them

[spartacus216]

@Jurrunio @TofuHaroto  - I want to pick your brain once more. Is a kit at 3800/cl14 like mentioned still better than let's say a 4000/cl15 if both are b-die? If I do the divide method mentioned it looks like the 3800 kit still wins but is that completely true in your opinion?

 

Also, are there any particular kits you recommend in the similar price range?

[Haro]

4 minutes ago, spartacus216 said:

Also, are there any particular kits you recommend in the similar price range?

Around 400 bucks ?

The only thing that pops up in my mind is the trident z 

They have many different models if you want to look into it 

4 minutes ago, spartacus216 said:

I want to pick your brain once more. Is a kit at 3800/cl14 like mentioned still better than let's say a 4000/cl15 if both are b-die? If I do the divide method mentioned it looks like the 3800 kit still wins but is that completely true in your opinion?

Theoretically the 4000/cl 15 is slightly better 

But I have not seen a kit out of the box with that type of frequency 

But I could be wrong and there could be a kit that is rated at that 

[spartacus216]

1 minute ago, TofuHaroto said:

Around 400 bucks ?

The only thing that pops up in my mind is the trident z 

They have many different models if you want to look into it 

Theoretically the 4000/cl 15 is slightly better 

But I have not seen a kit out of the box with that type of frequency 

But I could be wrong and there could be a kit that is rated at that 

There is such a kit. These: 4000/cl15

[Haro]

Just now, spartacus216 said:

There is such a kit. These: 4000/cl15

Oh ! The royals 

Totally forgot about them 

Then yes it would be slightly better but not as much as you would think 

The royals are overpriced and don't bring anything new  

I think paying 150 dollars less and getting 99% of the performance will be financially smarter

[spartacus216]

1 minute ago, TofuHaroto said:

Oh ! The royals 

Totally forgot about them 

Then yes it would be slightly better but not as much as you would think 

The royals are overpriced and don't bring anything new  

I think paying 150 dollars less and getting 99% of the performance will be financially smarter

Yeah, agreed.

[Jurrunio]

37 minutes ago, spartacus216 said:

I want to pick your brain once more. Is a kit at 3800/cl14 like mentioned still better than let's say a 4000/cl15 if both are b-die? If I do the divide method mentioned it looks like the 3800 kit still wins but is that completely true in your opinion?

Not really, in theory the 4000 C15 is slightly better as it's a proof that those B-die keeps scaling well up to 4000MHz. I doubt you'll see the difference though

 

29 minutes ago, TofuHaroto said:

The royals are overpriced and don't bring anything new  

I mean, the bins OP looks at are all garbage in price to performance

[Haro]

2 minutes ago, Jurrunio said:

mean, the bins OP looks at are all garbage in price to performance

Yea true but the royals are even more Garbage if we are going about price to performance

[Guest]

This kit I use for benching 3D on my 8700k as you see listed below.

Good for CL14-14-14 benching, cl16-16-16 daily and is where they run as we speak. 4000mhz

Will do 4266mhz CL-16-16-16 with increased voltage.

Price to performance, its a good kit.

 

This as example, not a purchase suggestion.

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.newegg.com/amp/g-skill-16gb-288-pin-ddr4-sdram/p/N82E16820232472

[nick name]

4 hours ago, spartacus216 said:

They are both b-die, yes. I usually manually tune everything for the most part but no competitive overclocking, just the usual stuff. I've been a tech since I was a kid actually but I have never really dove into these types of situations so I appreciate the help. Based on what you said though, even though one runs at 1.5v, couldn't I simply O.C. that same kit to 4400mhz @ cl19 or whatever and maybe it'll run at 1.4v instead? Obviously I would have to play with it some but I don't think you could just pick the RAM with the lowest voltage as the best honestly because there's a ton of 3200 kits at 1.35v and lower but they won't come close to what these can do.

There are kits that are 3200CL14 b-die that people get up to 3800CL14 at 1.5V so it's difficult to say which bin is the best.  So it isn't simply picking the lowest voltage, but lowest voltage at highest speed to try and guess the quality of the bin.  And I do mean guess.  Unless you can find someone that has the exact kit to ask them and compare -- I am just guessing.   

 

My 3600CL15 kit does 3800CL14 at 1.5V and 4400CL19 at a little higher voltage.  

[spartacus216]

16 hours ago, Jurrunio said:

Not really, in theory the 4000 C15 is slightly better as it's a proof that those B-die keeps scaling well up to 4000MHz. I doubt you'll see the difference though

 

I mean, the bins OP looks at are all garbage in price to performance

Then do you have a better recommendation? There are much much more expensive RAM out there. I am very open to recommendations.

[nick name]

The Patriot Viper Steel are probably the best bang for buck b-die out there.  And some might even call them the best for overclocking.  

 

https://pcpartpicker.com/product/vVVD4D/patriot-viper-steel-16-gb-2-x-8-gb-ddr4-4400-memory-pvs416g440c9k

 

This G.Skill appears to be a better bin though as it runs at slightly less voltage for 4400CL19.

 

https://pcpartpicker.com/product/GTvZxr/gskill-trident-z-16gb-2-x-8gb-ddr4-4400-memory-f4-4400c19d-16gtzsw

[spartacus216]

5 minutes ago, nick name said:

The Patriot Viper Steel are probably the best bang for buck b-die out there.  And some might even call them the best for overclocking.  

 

https://pcpartpicker.com/product/vVVD4D/patriot-viper-steel-16-gb-2-x-8-gb-ddr4-4400-memory-pvs416g440c9k

 

This G.Skill appears to be a better bin though as it runs at slightly less voltage for 4400CL19.

 

https://pcpartpicker.com/product/GTvZxr/gskill-trident-z-16gb-2-x-8gb-ddr4-4400-memory-f4-4400c19d-16gtzsw

I actually have the patriot viper steel and I understand now why they aren't on the qvl for these boards, can't use either xmp or even get it to boot at the rated speeds, that's why I am trying something else.

[nick name]

4 minutes ago, spartacus216 said:

I actually have the patriot viper steel and I understand now why they aren't on the qvl for these boards, can't use either xmp or even get it to boot at the rated speeds, that's why I am trying something else.

Which kit do you have?

[spartacus216]

2 minutes ago, nick name said:

Which kit do you have?

The exact one you linked. In fact they are in the PC I am using right now which is a 9900k on a z390. They are pure hell to get working right, for the price not bad but yeah, not on the qvl so it has an issue. I tried some sticks from a friend, trident z ones and they work like a charm. I hate that too because price to performance, these should be amazing.

[nick name]

3 minutes ago, spartacus216 said:

The exact one you linked. In fact they are in the PC I am using right now which is a 9900k on a z390. They are pure hell to get working right, for the price not bad but yeah, not on the qvl so it has an issue. I tried some sticks from a friend, trident z ones and they work like a charm. I hate that too because price to performance, these should be amazing.

Then I'd snag that G.Skill kit I linked in that post.