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YouTube is deleting comments with two phrases that insult China’s Communist Party

AshRiver
By AshRiver
in Tech News
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https://www.theverge.com/2020/5/26/21270290/youtube-deleting-comments-censorship-chinese-communist-party-ccp

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These Chinese language phrases are removed within seconds

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YouTube is automatically deleting comments that contain certain Chinese-language phrases related to criticism of the country’s ruling Communist Party (CCP). The company confirmed to The Verge this was happening in error and that it was looking into the issue.

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“This appears to be an error in our enforcement systems and we are investigating,” said a YouTube spokesperson. The company did not elaborate on how or why this error came to be, but said it was not the result of any change in its moderation policy.

But if the deletions are the result of a simple mistake, then it’s one that’s gone unnoticed for six months. The Verge found evidence that comments were being deleted as early as October 2019, when the issue was raised on YouTube’s official help pages and multiple users confirmed that they had experienced the same problem.

Comments left under videos or in live streams that contain the words “共匪” (“communist bandit”) or “五毛” (“50-cent party”) are automatically deleted in around 15 seconds, though their English language translations and Romanized Pinyin equivalents are not.

The term “共匪” is an insult that dates back to China’s Nationalist government, while “五毛,” (or “wu mao”) is a derogatory slang term for internet users paid to direct online discussion away from criticism of the CCP. The name comes from claims that such commenters are paid 50 Chinese cents per post.

The accidental censorship is even more puzzling considering that YouTube is currently blocked in China, giving its parent company, Google, even less reason to censor comments critical of the CCP or apply moderation systems in accordance with Chinese censorship laws.

 

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Uh oh. Youtube now is going aggressive mode protect CCP? Did CCP pay Youtube a lot of $ to do this? I don't believe this is an error at all. If La Chinese language no work then it is time to use La French language! 

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It's an automatic algorithm. So, if that is indeed a derogatory term, then it makes sense that it's filtered out. The system just looks at things that are considered derogatory and acts on them. If this was a person intervening and kicking the comments off, then it'd be worse.

 

I'd only really say this is a bad move if they uphold it now that they're made aware. Let's be real, I'm betting most of Google's employees aren't well versed in Mandarin/Cantonese. Saying that it's a conspiracy is a little much.

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While I don't agree with censoring it's a private platform they can do whatever they please

▓ƆԀ▓ S▓₱▓Ɇ▓c▓s▓: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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Posted

I feel like its best to give them the benefit of the doubt that its an algorithm that managed to detect the word as a racial slur of some sort.

30 minutes ago, dizmo said:

 If this was a person intervening and kicking the comments off, then it'd be worse.

 

 Let's be real, I'm betting most of Google's employees aren't well versed in Mandarin/Cantonese. Saying that it's a conspiracy is a little much.

I also want to point out that there's no way that its a real person, seeing as how quickly the OP states the comments are being taken down

 

Also the OP literally states that google recognizes this and that this is happening in error. I really don't think this is Google's fault

 

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1 hour ago, dizmo said:

It's an automatic algorithm. So, if that is indeed a derogatory term, then it makes sense that it's filtered out. The system just looks at things that are considered derogatory and acts on them. If this was a person intervening and kicking the comments off, then it'd be worse.

 

I'd only really say this is a bad move if they uphold it now that they're made aware. Let's be real, I'm betting most of Google's employees aren't well versed in Mandarin/Cantonese. Saying that it's a conspiracy is a little much.

 

More to the point, bad language removed from it's context can't distinguish between a comment identifying the actual term correctly and a belligerent use of the same word. 

 

There's been a real pushback in online forums/comments over the last few years, where people seem to believe that just because a certain politician is a master-troll, they're entitled to do the same behavior. Because kids exist in the same spaces, it's now becoming a point to remove all comment ability from those under 13, and restrict 13-18 year olds from discussing adult topics or have their spaces shutdown. But because there's a lot of bad actors out there, we're slowly edging to the point where nobody under the age of 18 is entitled to free speech in online spaces, and nanny-state'ing becomes acceptable to protect kids from being kids.

 

Just because you remove their ability to have a conversation, doesn't mean they're not still engaging in that behavior in a private space.

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Just in time for the BC Supreme Court's decision on the extradition case of Meng Wanzhou dropping tomorrow. 

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1 hour ago, BuckGup said:

While I don't agree with censoring it's a private platform they can do whatever they please

So you don’t agree with censorship unless it’s being done by a corporation.  Then it’s ok.   

Not a pro, not even very good.  I’m just old and have time currently.  Assuming I know a lot about computers can be a mistake.

 

Life is like a bowl of chocolates: there are all these little crinkly paper cups everywhere.

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Abolish comments entirely from YouTube; see how little I will care. There is little to gain and a lot to lose from reading the cesspool. 

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12 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

So you don’t agree with censorship unless it’s being done by a corporation.  Then it’s ok.   

Sounds more observational than anything. 

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7 minutes ago, MegaDave91 said:

Abolish comments entirely from YouTube; see how little I will care. There is little to gain and a lot to lose from reading the cesspool. 

That seems to have happened.  A couple days ago YouTube videos I see no longer have either comments listed or a way to leave one.  May be specific to format and there still may be a way to do so.  In general ive seem a gradual restriction across just about every system in bot ability to comment and ability to choose selection.  Instead what you are allowed to view is being selected by some sort of AI. for example at the moment amazon prime seems to think is should really rally watch Clifford the big red dog and I get a full page attempt to make me watch it every time I log on.
 

 I find myself having to dump accounts just to be able to get a broader selection. 

Not a pro, not even very good.  I’m just old and have time currently.  Assuming I know a lot about computers can be a mistake.

 

Life is like a bowl of chocolates: there are all these little crinkly paper cups everywhere.

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1 hour ago, Kisai said:

Just because you remove their ability to have a conversation, doesn't mean they're not still engaging in that behavior in a private space.

The whispers in the night, far away from neighbors that would otherwise stab them in the back. My God! Is that what we want, an erosion of free speech to where Big Tech becomes an instrument of a new Stasi like form of oppression?

 

To hell with Youtube! Bunch of cowering gutless cowards!

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2 hours ago, BuckGup said:

While I don't agree with censoring it's a private platform they can do whatever they please

I agree that that's the way it is, but disagree in the sense that we should be fighting that notion a little more strongly.

 

I mean, is it really ok that Facebook and Youtube can censor people for whatever reason(s) they deem necessary when those two places are now where the astronomically vast majority of political discourse, or really discussion of any type, takes place?

I think that it's not. If Facebook and Youtube are allowed to decide what is and is not acceptable to talk about, then they are effectively able to censor everyone across more than a few countries, for any reason that they see fit. Or, put more damningly, if Facebook and Youtube can censor anything for any reason and at any time, then they have the power to control everything, and I do not believe that that is a power that private companies should be allowed to have, even if using those platforms is technically a choice that people make.

I know that this is a very difficult subject fraught with legal, moral, ethical, and logical implications around every corner, but there has to be a line somewhere, otherwise we really are just turning over control of everything to whatever platform people like to discuss things on.

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1 hour ago, Bombastinator said:

So you don’t agree with censorship unless it’s being done by a corporation.  Then it’s ok.   

That's not what I said. Youtube is a free service. Alphabet can do whatever they want with it. There is nothing legally that says you can't censor it. I can make a website saying how the moon landing is faked all under freedom of speech and creative commons. Now if the Chinese government came to Alphabet and said censor all these things then that's a different boundary. It's the same idea of censoring certain books in public libraries funded by taxes. There's a difference between private and publicly owned and funded websites. I agree there is a very fine line but you really shouldn't be getting your news from Twitter or Facebook as these aren't news websites.

▓ƆԀ▓ S▓₱▓Ɇ▓c▓s▓: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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Posted

This sounds like cherrypicking considering many other channels of other kinds of political backgrounds have faced the wrath of Youtube's algorithm.

Ironic, considering Youtube is still banned in china when Doki Doki Literature Club got lifted not too long ago. 

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Is there any English words that get this kind of auto deletion?

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1 hour ago, WI-FIultrasnoop said:

What do you think about this @mr moose

 

Youtube has a big problem with giving it's users an equal platform for certain opinions.  Google is a private company so it can automatically delete comments (and sometimes entire channels) if there is enough financial threat from advertisers or other organization.  

 

Now this is not a freedom of speech issue as such, because it is a private platform and no law/constitution anywhere in the world dictates what a company has to say,  however there are plenty of laws and agencies twisting arms to prevent them from saying certain things.   

 

So basically, if google want to be china's lacky then that is up to them, We have the right to be annoyed with them for this decision and highlight it, not the right to demand they don't do it.  

 

I would save the demands for forcing when a company can be compelled to give someone a platform or remove that platform for the things that are unquestionably dangerous like giving medical advice on depression and cancer.  IMHO,  advice on complex issues like cancer, depression and autism (where the advice centres around taking or not taking medication) should come only from a doctor and not the internet.

 

 

 

 

Grammar and spelling is not indicative of intelligence/knowledge.  Not having the same opinion does not always mean lack of understanding.  

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5 hours ago, dizmo said:

It's an automatic algorithm.

No, it's an automatic algorithm plus a manually curated blacklist. The system is NOT wholly black boxed and the whole "it's automatic and this is happening accidentally" is bullshit.

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1 hour ago, mrthuvi said:

Is there any English words that get this kind of auto deletion?

From my experience reading YouTube comments, no.

 

As an aside from that, people should be very upset that a company as large as Google would be slobbin' the Chinese Communist Party's knobs and censoring things that cast them in a negative light. Civil rights abuses, censorship, allowing wet markets to operate that at a minimum helped spread a pandemic we're in right now; China needs to suck it up and deal, they brought those comments on themselves.

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15 minutes ago, ravenshrike said:

No, it's an automatic algorithm plus a manually curated blacklist. The system is NOT wholly black boxed and the whole "it's automatic and this is happening accidentally" is bullshit.

I find those types of argument funny: "I didn't hurt anyone, it was my machine-gun!" :D

Automating a task just makes it less labor-intensive, it doesn't change how intentional or unintentional it is. 

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Youtube bends the knee to china

Valve bends the knee to china

Apple bends the knee to china

Disney bends the knee to china

Google wants to bend the knee to china but has been cockblocked twice in the attempt

 

Just soulless spineless corporations without a shred of morality.

Fuck China and their Supreme Leader Winnie The Pooh

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5 hours ago, dizmo said:

It's an automatic algorithm. So, if that is indeed a derogatory term, then it makes sense that it's filtered out. The system just looks at things that are considered derogatory and acts on them. If this was a person intervening and kicking the comments off, then it'd be worse.

 

I'd only really say this is a bad move if they uphold it now that they're made aware. Let's be real, I'm betting most of Google's employees aren't well versed in Mandarin/Cantonese. Saying that it's a conspiracy is a little much.

This is the most logical explanation.

Just think of all the mistakes Youtube's algorithms makes on a daily basis, but for some reason this specific one, which is about filtering out derogatory terms, is for some reason labeled a conspiracy? And like the OP even said, it doesn't make sense since Youtube is blocked in China.

Sometimes it's good to just stop and think about things for a while without screaming "conspiracy!".

 

 

5 hours ago, BuckGup said:

While I don't agree with censoring it's a private platform they can do whatever they please

I dislike this argument because:

1) Just because you are legally allowed to do something doesn't mean it should be tolerated or that people shouldn't be upset about it. It is okay to be upset about someone doing something bad even though it is legal.

2) I'd argue that a handful of companies have so much power these days that they maybe shouldn't operate under the same laws as the rest. The laws haven't followed with the times. Laws doesn't exist so that people can follow them. Law exist to protect people. So once they fail to do that, they should be changed.

 

 

52 minutes ago, mr moose said:

We have the right to be annoyed with them for this decision and highlight it, not the right to demand they don't do it.  

We do actually have the right to demand that they don't do it. Youtube however has no legal obligation to comply with our demands.

 

 

 

41 minutes ago, ravenshrike said:

No, it's an automatic algorithm plus a manually curated blacklist. The system is NOT wholly black boxed and the whole "it's automatic and this is happening accidentally" is bullshit.

You're right, but in a very simplistic way. It's not a blackbox, hence why Youtube have even come out and said "this is a mistake and we will fix it".

If it was a conspiracy then Youtube wouldn't admit to it being a mistake, and say they will fix it. Right?

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