Need advice on an air cooler

[schoolish]

So I still consider myself a noob in the PCMR community because I only just built my first PC in March of 2019 so I've only gotten a little over a year under my belt...but I am learning quickly and loving every minute of it. But that's besides the point. Right now I have a 9700k that is overclocked to 5.1ghz on all cores that is being cooled by a Corsair H115i Pro RGB XT (280mm AIO). Everything is great and stable and cool so awesome. Well, like I said, I have been learning alot quickly and even though my AIO is doing a fantastic job right now, I also am aware that AIO's have many more points of failure than an air cooler. So I'm looking to purchase a backup air cooler just in case the worst case scenario happens and my aio pump goes out and I'm up the stream without a paddle. So any recommendations on a good air cooler to buy that won't break the bank but also be able to step in and take the place of my aio if it fails and perform admirably. I'm thinking I don't want to spend more than $50(if that's even possible) but I may could squeeze out another 10 or 20 bucks if need be. But my goal would be that if my aio failed then I would want an air cooler that I could install immediately and still be able to run a stable OC on my 9700k at or around 4.8ish ghz. Now I could be completely out in left field thinking 4.8 on all cores with a $50ish air cooler but a wise man once told me that there are no stupid question when it's regarding the life of your CPU. So any info would be appreciated, or if I'm completely off with my logic here then please correct me and push me towards the correct approach here. But I do know for sure that I want a backup cooling option...because from what I've read and watched, I would think that should be a priority for most people.

[schoolish]

I found this one on Amazon that advertises up to 210w TDP...which could be BS but it is around my price range so I'll link it here and see what ya'll think.

 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0846LPTLD/ref=ox_sc_mini_detail?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A2T6N244WTLWGU

[Demonic Donut]

Take TDP rating with a grain of salt.

 

It does look like a decent 4 heat pipe cooler though. Arctic freezer is a good brand too. It should be a fine back up.

[freeagent]

A four pipe cooler is not decent. And TDP is still useful. To me it looks like another 212.

[SolarNova]

13 hours ago, schoolish said:

So I still consider myself a noob in the PCMR community because I only just built my first PC in March of 2019 so I've only gotten a little over a year under my belt...but I am learning quickly and loving every minute of it. But that's besides the point. Right now I have a 9700k that is overclocked to 5.1ghz on all cores that is being cooled by a Corsair H115i Pro RGB XT (280mm AIO). Everything is great and stable and cool so awesome. Well, like I said, I have been learning alot quickly and even though my AIO is doing a fantastic job right now, I also am aware that AIO's have many more points of failure than an air cooler. So I'm looking to purchase a backup air cooler just in case the worst case scenario happens and my aio pump goes out and I'm up the stream without a paddle. So any recommendations on a good air cooler to buy that won't break the bank but also be able to step in and take the place of my aio if it fails and perform admirably. I'm thinking I don't want to spend more than $50(if that's even possible) but I may could squeeze out another 10 or 20 bucks if need be. But my goal would be that if my aio failed then I would want an air cooler that I could install immediately and still be able to run a stable OC on my 9700k at or around 4.8ish ghz. Now I could be completely out in left field thinking 4.8 on all cores with a $50ish air cooler but a wise man once told me that there are no stupid question when it's regarding the life of your CPU. So any info would be appreciated, or if I'm completely off with my logic here then please correct me and push me towards the correct approach here. But I do know for sure that I want a backup cooling option...because from what I've read and watched, I would think that should be a priority for most people.

Noctua NH-U12

 

If u dont like the aesthetic of the Noctua then consider:

 

Arctic Freezer 34 esports

and

bequite Shadow Rock 3

[Grabhanem]

From what

13 hours ago, schoolish said:

I found this one on Amazon that advertises up to 210w TDP...which could be BS but it is around my price range so I'll link it here and see what ya'll think.

 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0846LPTLD/ref=ox_sc_mini_detail?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A2T6N244WTLWGU

From what I've heard the Freezer Duo is pretty decent, it won't match a 280mm AIO by any means but should be plenty for a stock 9700k and maybe a mild overclock.

 

TDP is always BS. So much depends on coldplate geometry, boost power plans, etc... that it's hard to make any kind of real comparison.

[WoodenMarker]

15 hours ago, schoolish said:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0846LPTLD/ref=ox_sc_mini_detail?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A2T6N244WTLWGU

Although the Freezer 34 eSports Duo is a nice cooler, $58 is a bit overpriced and there are better options available.

What case and ram are you using?

[schoolish]

10 hours ago, SolarNova said:

Noctua NH-U12

 

If u dont like the aesthetic of the Noctua then consider:

 

Arctic Freezer 34 esports

and

bequite Shadow Rock 3

I could've swore I turned notifications on but guess not. Appreciate all the advice tho, but aesthetics aren't a huge concern for me. Especially when it comes to Noctua products because their performance is good enough to make me disregard the looks. The NH-U12 was one that I had in my amazon cart already because I figured if I couldn't find anything a little cheaper that would do what I'm wanting then I'd buy it for sure. 

 

Do you think the Arctic Freezer 34 really can handle up to 210w TDP? Or do you think its just false marketing. If I were to buy that cooler then more than likely I would replace the fans with some Noctua redux at the least, since those aren't but like 14 bucks with great performance. 

[schoolish]

10 hours ago, Grabhanem said:

From what

From what I've heard the Freezer Duo is pretty decent, it won't match a 280mm AIO by any means but should be plenty for a stock 9700k and maybe a mild overclock.

 

TDP is always BS. So much depends on coldplate geometry, boost power plans, etc... that it's hard to make any kind of real comparison.

I was wondering the same about "TDP" and if it was something you could really use as a measurement of what cooler to get. My common sense was telling me to get the cheapest air cooler that has the largest heat sink and then just replace the fans with some Noctua redux fans, Is my common sense wrong on this? Or does air cooling really come down to just pure surface area and efficient airflow? I know you mentioned coldplate geometry and boost power plans but IDK what that really is lol

[schoolish]

8 hours ago, WoodenMarker said:

Although the Freezer 34 eSports Duo is a nice cooler, $58 is a bit overpriced and there are better options available.

What case and ram are you using?

I have a TT View 21 Tempered Glass Edition. I don't really think the airflow in the case is great by any means because the only part of the front panel where fans could intake air from seem to be just like the right side of the front panel that has like a two inch wide mesh that runs down that corner/side of the front panel, and then a little gap underneath the front panel. Although I haven't had any overheating issues even with my CPU overclock to 5.1 but that's prob due to my massive AIO, my gpu (zotac 2080 super) has gotten a little hot at time but I've toned the overclock down on it because I believe that was causing the heat issues with it, it's already factory overclocked and I could only manage to add at most +60 on the core clock before it got too hot for comfort under load. I toned that down to +40 and it might hit 80C after 4-5 hours of gaming at 100% gpu utilization, which isn't often. https://www.amazon.com/Thermaltake-Tempered-Computer-Chassis-CA-1I3-00M1WN-00/dp/B073XYR2T7/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=thermaltake%2Bview%2B21&qid=1590285300&sr=8-1&th=1

 

My ram is 2x8gb Adata XPG 3000mhz, https://www.amazon.com/XPG-Z1-3000MHz-Silver-AX4U300038G16-DSZ1/dp/B07HSZYNN5/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=adata+xpg+3000mhz&qid=1590285261&sr=8-1

[WoodenMarker]

42 minutes ago, schoolish said:

I have a TT View 21 Tempered Glass Edition. I don't really think the airflow in the case is great by any means because the only part of the front panel where fans could intake air from seem to be just like the right side of the front panel that has like a two inch wide mesh that runs down that corner/side of the front panel, and then a little gap underneath the front panel. Although I haven't had any overheating issues even with my CPU overclock to 5.1 but that's prob due to my massive AIO, my gpu (zotac 2080 super) has gotten a little hot at time but I've toned the overclock down on it because I believe that was causing the heat issues with it, it's already factory overclocked and I could only manage to add at most +60 on the core clock before it got too hot for comfort under load. I toned that down to +40 and it might hit 80C after 4-5 hours of gaming at 100% gpu utilization, which isn't often. https://www.amazon.com/Thermaltake-Tempered-Computer-Chassis-CA-1I3-00M1WN-00/dp/B073XYR2T7/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=thermaltake%2Bview%2B21&qid=1590285300&sr=8-1&th=1

 

My ram is 2x8gb Adata XPG 3000mhz, https://www.amazon.com/XPG-Z1-3000MHz-Silver-AX4U300038G16-DSZ1/dp/B07HSZYNN5/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=adata+xpg+3000mhz&qid=1590285261&sr=8-1

For the price, the Macho Direct or Macho Rev. C would be better: 

https://pcpartpicker.com/product/TsL7YJ/thermalright-cpu-cooler-machodirect

https://pcpartpicker.com/product/jr6qqs/thermalright-macho-revc-8497-cfm-cpu-cooler-macho-revc

If you don't mind the noise and just want something that works, the A70 is pretty cheap: https://pcpartpicker.com/product/HQW9TW/corsair-cpu-cooler-cafa70

If you want AM4 support and don't mind potentially clocking things a bit lower, the SE-224 XT is pretty cheap: https://pcpartpicker.com/product/VTqBD3/id-cooling-se-224-xt-basic-7616-cfm-cpu-cooler-se-224-xt-basic

[Demonic Donut]

4 hours ago, schoolish said:

I was wondering the same about "TDP" and if it was something you could really use as a measurement of what cooler to get. My common sense was telling me to get the cheapest air cooler that has the largest heat sink and then just replace the fans with some Noctua redux fans, Is my common sense wrong on this? Or does air cooling really come down to just pure surface area and efficient airflow? I know you mentioned coldplate geometry and boost power plans but IDK what that really is lol

The reason I don't like TDP is that there is no rule to what it means. Anything can cool a 200W chip, but how close to ambient can it keep it?

 

If the cooler you get has bad fans, replace them with your AIO fans. Better fans get you better flow, but more often you pay for less noise. My D15 doesn't cool that much better above 65% fan speed. Not under normal loads anyway.

 

Coldplate geometry references the difference or lack thereof between the surface of your IHS and your cooler plate. Power plans are CPU boosting strategies that boost harder when more cooling is available. Making it harder to see cooling differences.

 

[freeagent]

My CPU easily exceeds 200w overclocked but a 212 is not sufficient, how come? Because it’s a 150w cooler? Splain to me please. My cpu starts at 130w and rises quickly from there as you pile on the MHz.

[Demonic Donut]

2 hours ago, freeagent said:

My CPU easily exceeds 200w overclocked but a 212 is not sufficient, how come? Because it’s a 150w cooler? Splain to me please. My cpu starts at 130w and rises quickly from there as you pile on the MHz.

That's why I'm saying TDP isn't a good reference because it has no standard.

 

And you should watch Linus' video on how manufacturer TDP doesn't mean much either. AMD and Intel don't agree with what it means.

 

CompanyA's "150W TDP Cooler" will bring a 150w chip to 50C above ambient while Company B's "150W TDP Cooler" will bring the same chip to 35C above ambient. Both are 150W coolers, but are they same? They both cool the 150W chip well enough.

 

You can probably trust TDP ratings of the same company to give you an idea of cooler performance, but it's not a way to compare coolers from different manufacturers. Watch reviews from people who try to account for as many variables as possible.

 

[SolarNova]

13 hours ago, schoolish said:

Do you think the Arctic Freezer 34 really can handle up to 210w TDP? Or do you think its just false marketing. If I were to buy that cooler then more than likely I would replace the fans with some Noctua redux at the least, since those aren't but like 14 bucks with great performance. 

I wouldn't put to much stock into the TDP spec. More so just look at the design and size.

 

As for replacing fans, unless u already own the fans, i dont suggest buying replacement ones, because at that point u might as well just spend all that money on a bigger better cooler in the 1st place.

 

If u want to see how they perform, just take a look at review benchmarks. Here is one example that includes the NH-U12S, U12A, ShadowRock 3, and Arctic Freezer 34 and the duo version, aswell as a couple other Air cooelrs and a AIO.

[schoolish]

19 hours ago, WoodenMarker said:

For the price, the Macho Direct or Macho Rev. C would be better: 

https://pcpartpicker.com/product/TsL7YJ/thermalright-cpu-cooler-machodirect

https://pcpartpicker.com/product/jr6qqs/thermalright-macho-revc-8497-cfm-cpu-cooler-macho-revc

If you don't mind the noise and just want something that works, the A70 is pretty cheap: https://pcpartpicker.com/product/HQW9TW/corsair-cpu-cooler-cafa70

If you want AM4 support and don't mind potentially clocking things a bit lower, the SE-224 XT is pretty cheap: https://pcpartpicker.com/product/VTqBD3/id-cooling-se-224-xt-basic-7616-cfm-cpu-cooler-se-224-xt-basic

Thanks for those options cause I didn't even know about those. The Thermalright ones should be better performance wise and should allow a little more overclocking headroom over the corsair a70 right? The a70 looked like a beefier heatsink but it only had 4 heatpipes compared the the 5 on both thermalrights. And I know corsair seems to be good at making their air coolers seems beefier than actual performance would indicate. Am I correct on that assumption

[schoolish]

15 hours ago, Demonic Donut said:

The reason I don't like TDP is that there is no rule to what it means. Anything can cool a 200W chip, but how close to ambient can it keep it?

 

If the cooler you get has bad fans, replace them with your AIO fans. Better fans get you better flow, but more often you pay for less noise. My D15 doesn't cool that much better above 65% fan speed. Not under normal loads anyway.

 

Coldplate geometry references the difference or lack thereof between the surface of your IHS and your cooler plate. Power plans are CPU boosting strategies that boost harder when more cooling is available. Making it harder to see cooling differences.

 

That's a great idea! I didn't think about using the aio fans if the pump was to fail. In that case I would need to an air cooler that supports 140mm fans, and the corsair aio I have should have decent fans. When i bought my aio i made sure to buy the most recent corsair release, which was difficult cause they have so many dang 280mm aio's that start with h115i then followed by any of the following marketing terms: rgb, pro, xt, v2, supercalifragilisticexpialidocious. I had to go to corsairs site to see what their newest flagship was which was the h115i rgb pro xt which i still can't figure out if it uses a CoolIT pump or an Asatek...I think it's a CoolIt pump cause I've read that it uses the same and the platinum line which uses a CoolIt pump. I find it strange that matter how much I search on google or youtube I cannot find a spec sheet or a review of my exact aio that tells what model pump is in it. But mine doesn't have rgb fans, just the pump block is rgb, which is fine cause they are still the 140mm mag lev fans which should work fine on an air cooler, especially if i can find an air cooler that can support 140mm fans in a push pull config.

[schoolish]

6 hours ago, SolarNova said:

I wouldn't put to much stock into the TDP spec. More so just look at the design and size.

 

As for replacing fans, unless u already own the fans, i dont suggest buying replacement ones, because at that point u might as well just spend all that money on a bigger better cooler in the 1st place.

 

If u want to see how they perform, just take a look at review benchmarks. Here is one example that includes the NH-U12S, U12A, ShadowRock 3, and Arctic Freezer 34 and the duo version, aswell as a couple other Air cooelrs and a AIO.

True, that made a lot of sense actually cause if I were to buy a cheaper cooler for the purpose of buying noctua fans for it then by then I could probably afford at least a UH-12. I know the redux noctua fans are reasonably cheaper with the same performance as the "flagship" noctua offerings so I may have to just do some math to figure out what would be cheaper in regards to buying a noctua air cooler or something else with redux fans for it.

[SolarNova]

4 minutes ago, schoolish said:

True, that made a lot of sense actually cause if I were to buy a cheaper cooler for the purpose of buying noctua fans for it then by then I could probably afford at least a UH-12. I know the redux noctua fans are reasonably cheaper with the same performance as the "flagship" noctua offerings so I may have to just do some math to figure out what would be cheaper in regards to buying a noctua air cooler or something else with redux fans for it.

Odd , im sure i posted the link to the review....meh..... here it is if ur interested.

Spoiler

 

 

[schoolish]

12 minutes ago, SolarNova said:

Odd , im sure i posted the link to the review....meh..... here it is if ur interested.

  Hide contents

 

 

Got it, thanks, I'll check it out. Even though my aio is working fine right now, since building my first gaming PC I think I actually ended up enjoying tinkering with my PC than actually gaming. I do game some, maybe an hour or two a day, more on weekends, but I find myself always looking for something to upgrade or to fix just to have an excuse to tinker with my PC. So spending money on another cooler when mine works fine is just me justifying buy computer stuff lol. I'm thinking about building another but like with older ebay parts, mabye like a 4th gen intel or ryzen af or 2 gen. Idk yet but I'm obsessed now. 

[WoodenMarker]

1 hour ago, schoolish said:

Thanks for those options cause I didn't even know about those. The Thermalright ones should be better performance wise and should allow a little more overclocking headroom over the corsair a70 right? The a70 looked like a beefier heatsink but it only had 4 heatpipes compared the the 5 on both thermalrights. And I know corsair seems to be good at making their air coolers seems beefier than actual performance would indicate. Am I correct on that assumption

The A70 may be a better performer than the Thermalright coolers mentioned but not nearly as quiet. It comes with beefy 8mm heatpipes and high rpm fans. 

50 minutes ago, schoolish said:

That's a great idea! I didn't think about using the aio fans if the pump was to fail. In that case I would need to an air cooler that supports 140mm fans, and the corsair aio I have should have decent fans. When i bought my aio i made sure to buy the most recent corsair release, which was difficult cause they have so many dang 280mm aio's that start with h115i then followed by any of the following marketing terms: rgb, pro, xt, v2, supercalifragilisticexpialidocious. I had to go to corsairs site to see what their newest flagship was which was the h115i rgb pro xt which i still can't figure out if it uses a CoolIT pump or an Asatek...I think it's a CoolIt pump cause I've read that it uses the same and the platinum line which uses a CoolIt pump. I find it strange that matter how much I search on google or youtube I cannot find a spec sheet or a review of my exact aio that tells what model pump is in it. But mine doesn't have rgb fans, just the pump block is rgb, which is fine cause they are still the 140mm mag lev fans which should work fine on an air cooler, especially if i can find an air cooler that can support 140mm fans in a push pull config.

Most coolers don't ship with clips for square 140mm mounts and manufacturers that will send them are generally for more premium products like Noctua's 140mm coolers. Your case also wouldn't fit such tall fans on a tower heatsink. 

The H115i RGB Pro XT uses a CoolIT pump. https://www.kitguru.net/components/cooling/james-dawson/corsair-icue-h115i-rgb-pro-xt-cpu-cooler-review/

Quote

"utilise a CoolIT pump and radiator combination, just like the Corsair RGB Platinum series."

 

[Algebruh]

People who still compare TDP ratings from different manufactures really boggle my mind.

TDP ratings are only useful when comparing coolers from the same manufactures.

 

As @Demonic Donut mentioned, heat dissipation (ignoring heat radiation) is based on temperature difference.

Even stock intel cooler is able to dissipate 150W heat load if temperature difference is big enough.

 

Edit : Don't believe me ? See it for yourself

https://www.anandtech.com/show/11041/horizontal-cpu-coolers-3way-roundup/6

[schoolish]

On 5/25/2020 at 1:09 AM, ThiccSmough said:

People who still compare TDP ratings from different manufactures really boggle my mind.

TDP ratings are only useful when comparing coolers from the same manufactures.

 

As @Demonic Donut mentioned, heat dissipation (ignoring heat radiation) is based on temperature difference.

Even stock intel cooler is able to dissipate 150W heat load if temperature difference is big enough.

 

Edit : Don't believe me ? See it for yourself

https://www.anandtech.com/show/11041/horizontal-cpu-coolers-3way-roundup/6

Well that is the reason why I posted this question. I did not know of the importance or lack their of, about the TDP of air coolers. I would just buy a hyper 212 as a backup but I remember reading somewhere that they were a pain to install