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Question About a General Approach/Philosophy

Budget (including currency): $1200

Country: USA

Games, programs or workloads that it will be used for: Minecraft (with ray tracing is a plus), SoldWorks CAD, light stats modeling/machine learning.

Other details:

  • Existing parts:
    • 250GB SSD
    • Keyboard & Mouse
    • Windows OS License
  • Whether any peripherals are needed: No.
  • What you're upgrading from: Dell Latitude 3570 14" Laptop, 6th Gen core i5, 8GB DDR3L RAM, Integrated Intel HD 520 Graphics.
  • When you're going to buy: in the next 30 days +/-
  • I don't care about aesthetics, just performance.
  • I will need to buy a monitor, but I am not including it in my $1200 budget. I am open to suggestions..

Backstory: My cat knocked a glass of water all over my laptop (purchased in 2017) which I was hoping would serve me until 2023. Suffice to say the SSD is the only part I was able to salvage.

 

Now, on to my question. The main design objective for my system is for it to be able to chug along for at least 5-7 years with minimal upgrades. Of course building a machine with the best of the current best will put me well outside my budget. So keeping my design objective in mind, as a general approach/philosophy:

  1. Which components do I need to invest in now to ensure the machine will be able to make it into 2025 (at least)?
  2. Which components can I save money on, and cost effectively upgrade no earlier than 2 years down the line?
  3. Does a system that meets my design objective within my budget exist? If not, please help me readjust my expectations.

Thank you!

 

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It's a better idea to upgrade some components every 2-3 years than try to get current hardware to last that long.

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31 minutes ago, cokeandfries said:

Budget (including currency): $1200

Country: USA

Games, programs or workloads that it will be used for: Minecraft (with ray tracing is a plus), SoldWorks CAD, light stats modeling/machine learning.

Other details:

  • Existing parts:
    • 250GB SSD
    • Keyboard & Mouse
    • Windows OS License
  • Whether any peripherals are needed: No.
  • What you're upgrading from: Dell Latitude 3570 14" Laptop, 6th Gen core i5, 8GB DDR3L RAM, Integrated Intel HD 520 Graphics.
  • When you're going to buy: in the next 30 days +/-
  • I don't care about aesthetics, just performance.
  • I will need to buy a monitor, but I am not including it in my $1200 budget. I am open to suggestions..

Backstory: My cat knocked a glass of water all over my laptop (purchased in 2017) which I was hoping would serve me until 2023. Suffice to say the SSD is the only part I was able to salvage.

 

Now, on to my question. The main design objective for my system is for it to be able to chug along for at least 5-7 years with minimal upgrades. Of course building a machine with the best of the current best will put me well outside my budget. So keeping my design objective in mind, as a general approach/philosophy:

  1. Which components do I need to invest in now to ensure the machine will be able to make it into 2025 (at least)?
  2. Which components can I save money on, and cost effectively upgrade no earlier than 2 years down the line?
  3. Does a system that meets my design objective within my budget exist? If not, please help me readjust my expectations.

Thank you!

 

Cores, lots of cores. AMD 3700 would be a good option here. If that is not in the budget, 3600. The thing with "future proofing" is, its just impossible to do. With that said, the industry and software is going towards core count mattering a lot. So the more cores you can get, the longer the CPU will effectively last. Hopefully things like Vulkan keep improving which allows for games to not need RAW GHz, but that is sort of a hard bet to make. Its likely by 2025, a 3700 will not be "fast", but it will be "fine".

 

RAM is something I think you can go low on now, and upgrade later. 16 GB is plenty for todays work, and in 2-3 years if there is a need for 32 (likely won't be so your probs fine with 16 for the life of the machine), you can likely grab some cheap DDR4 when DDR5 starts to hit the market in ~3 years, maybe 4, we are still not 100% sure when that will be.

 

GPU's are a horrible thing to try and future proof. If you spend 250 now vs 500 now, and just put that 250 in the bank and spend it again in 3 years on another 250 dollar card, you will ha ve the same performance you did today by spending 500, but likely with cool new "DLSS 5.0" or "Ray Tracing EXTREME SUPER QUANTUM Ti" which doesn't exist yet. Its a hard question to answer... Spend more now to have a higher FPS/higher resolution experience RIGHT NOW and for the next few years, or save a bit now, so you can upgrade without "feeling bad" about it later. Sorta up to you on that one.

Rig: i7 10700k @ 5.1Ghz, 4.8 Ring - - Z490 Vision G - - EVGA RTX 2080 XC Ultra @ 2025Mhz - - 4x8GB Vengeance Pro 3000Mhz 15-17-17-34 @ 3500MHz 16-19-19-38 - - Samsung 950 Pro 512 NVMe Boot + Main Programs - - Samsung 830 Pro 256 RAID 0 Lightroom + Photo work - - WD Blue 1 TB SSD for Games - - Corsair RM850x - - Sound BlasterX EA-5 - - EK Supremacy Evo - - XT45 X-Flow 420 + UT60 280 rads - - EK Full Cover GPU Block - - EK XRES RGB PWM - - Fractal Define S2 - - Acer Predator X34 -- Logitech G502 - - Logitech G710+ - - Logitech Z5500 - - Steel Series QcK XXL

 

Headphones/amp/dac: Schiit Lyr 3 - - Fostex TR-X00 - - Sennheiser HD 6xx

 

Homelab/ Media Server: ESXi 6.5 - - 250 GB SSD for VM's/ESXi boot - - FreeNAS - - HPE Proliant ML10 Gen 9 backbone - - i3 6100 - - 28 GB ECC - - 10x4 TB WD Red RAID Z2 - - 10TB WD Red for expendable data - - Corsair 750D - - Corsair RM650i - - Dell H310 6Gbps SAS HBA - - Intel RES2SC240 SAS Expander

 

White Lightning (original full watercooled build) - Homelab / Media Server - The Blue Beast (my car and other expensive hobby...) - iPhone Xs - 2018 MacBook Air

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22 minutes ago, LIGISTX said:

Cores, lots of cores. AMD 3700 would be a good option here. If that is not in the budget, 3600. The thing with "future proofing" is, its just impossible to do. With that said, the industry and software is going towards core count mattering a lot. So the more cores you can get, the longer the CPU will effectively last. Hopefully things like Vulkan keep improving which allows for games to not need RAW GHz, but that is sort of a hard bet to make. Its likely by 2025, a 3700 will not be "fast", but it will be "fine".

 

RAM is something I think you can go low on now, and upgrade later. 16 GB is plenty for todays work, and in 2-3 years if there is a need for 32 (likely won't be so your probs fine with 16 for the life of the machine), you can likely grab some cheap DDR4 when DDR5 starts to hit the market in ~3 years, maybe 4, we are still not 100% sure when that will be.

 

GPU's are a horrible thing to try and future proof. If you spend 250 now vs 500 now, and just put that 250 in the bank and spend it again in 3 years on another 250 dollar card, you will ha ve the same performance you did today by spending 500, but likely with cool new "DLSS 5.0" or "Ray Tracing EXTREME SUPER QUANTUM Ti" which doesn't exist yet. Its a hard question to answer... Spend more now to have a higher FPS/higher resolution experience RIGHT NOW and for the next few years, or save a bit now, so you can upgrade without "feeling bad" about it later. Sorta up to you on that one.

I'm glad my initial intuition was pointed in the right direction. 

Quote

3700 will not be "fast", but it will be "fine".

... is exactly what I am looking for - a system that is "fine" 5 years from now.

 

How about the motherboard and powersupply? What are the features I should place a premium on to enable upgrades 2-3 years down the line without a complete rebuild?

 

Thanks!

 

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12 minutes ago, cokeandfries said:

I'm glad my initial intuition was pointed in the right direction. 

... is exactly what I am looking for - a system that is "fine" 5 years from now.

 

How about the motherboard and powersupply? What are the features I should place a premium on to enable upgrades 2-3 years down the line without a complete rebuild?

 

Thanks!

 

Mobo really doesn't matter at all. There are no real features on a mobo that are forward looking, besides PCIe Gen 4, which AMD supports. Even with that, the chance of 3.0 being over sutured in the next 5 years is extremely unlikely.

 

PSU, a quality 650 watt will be enough for any single GPU you ever want to throw at it.

Rig: i7 10700k @ 5.1Ghz, 4.8 Ring - - Z490 Vision G - - EVGA RTX 2080 XC Ultra @ 2025Mhz - - 4x8GB Vengeance Pro 3000Mhz 15-17-17-34 @ 3500MHz 16-19-19-38 - - Samsung 950 Pro 512 NVMe Boot + Main Programs - - Samsung 830 Pro 256 RAID 0 Lightroom + Photo work - - WD Blue 1 TB SSD for Games - - Corsair RM850x - - Sound BlasterX EA-5 - - EK Supremacy Evo - - XT45 X-Flow 420 + UT60 280 rads - - EK Full Cover GPU Block - - EK XRES RGB PWM - - Fractal Define S2 - - Acer Predator X34 -- Logitech G502 - - Logitech G710+ - - Logitech Z5500 - - Steel Series QcK XXL

 

Headphones/amp/dac: Schiit Lyr 3 - - Fostex TR-X00 - - Sennheiser HD 6xx

 

Homelab/ Media Server: ESXi 6.5 - - 250 GB SSD for VM's/ESXi boot - - FreeNAS - - HPE Proliant ML10 Gen 9 backbone - - i3 6100 - - 28 GB ECC - - 10x4 TB WD Red RAID Z2 - - 10TB WD Red for expendable data - - Corsair 750D - - Corsair RM650i - - Dell H310 6Gbps SAS HBA - - Intel RES2SC240 SAS Expander

 

White Lightning (original full watercooled build) - Homelab / Media Server - The Blue Beast (my car and other expensive hobby...) - iPhone Xs - 2018 MacBook Air

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Since you already have a SSD, this should do:

 

PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: AMD Ryzen 7 3700X 3.6 GHz 8-Core Processor  ($289.99 @ Amazon) 
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 Black Edition 42 CFM CPU Cooler  ($38.99 @ Amazon) 
Motherboard: MSI B450 TOMAHAWK MAX ATX AM4 Motherboard  ($114.99 @ Best Buy) 
Memory: Corsair Vengeance LPX 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR4-3200 Memory  ($164.99 @ Corsair) 
Video Card: NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2060 SUPER 8 GB Video Card  ($399.99 @ Best Buy) 
Case: Corsair 200R ATX Mid Tower Case  ($69.04 @ Amazon) 
Power Supply: Corsair CXM 650 W 80+ Bronze Certified Semi-modular ATX Power Supply  ($94.99 @ Best Buy) 
Total: $1172.98
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2020-05-19 09:57 EDT-0400

 

The 2060S is the cheapest RTX card with 8gb of vram, which should be enough for most ML models and allows you to do some ray traced minecraft.

 

Now, as for

11 hours ago, cokeandfries said:
  1. Which components can I save money on, and cost effectively upgrade no earlier than 2 years down the line?

You could save a couple bucks going for a 550w supply, and I doubt you'd even need more than that. If 6gb of ram and no ray tracing is ok for you, a 1660 Super should be enough instead of the 2060S.

FX6300 @ 4.2GHz | Gigabyte GA-78LMT-USB3 R2 | Hyper 212x | 3x 8GB + 1x 4GB @ 1600MHz | Gigabyte 2060 Super | Corsair CX650M | LG 43UK6520PSA
ASUS X550LN | i5 4210u | 12GB
Lenovo N23 Yoga

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You can get a high quality PSU in the 500-650w range with a 10 year warranty for a very reasonable price (under £100 here in the UK so probably under $100 in the US).

That fulfills both the "save money" and "keep functioning until 2025". I'm currently using a 750W Corsair AX750 that I've had since 2011 and shows no signs of giving up the ghost. The EVGA SuperNOVA 550 GA probably fits the bill, or one of their 650w models at or near $100, and unless you intend on heavy overclocking or multiple GPUs that should serve you well (especially given that power efficiency tends to increase from generation to generation).

[ P R O J E C T _ M E L L I F E R A ]

[ 5900X | X570S Aorus Pro | 32GB GSkill Trident Z 3600MHz CL16 | EVGA RTX2080 XC ]
[ EK-Quantum Reflection | O11D-XL | HardwareLabs GTS and GTX 360mm | XSPC D5 SATA ]

[ HeatKiller and TechN Blocks | Corsair AX750 | ROG Swift PG279Q | Q-Acoustics 2010i | Sabaj A4 ]

 

P R O J E C T | S A N D W A S P

6900K | RTX2080 | 32GB DDR4-3000 | Custom Loop 

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QUOTE ME  FOR ANSWER.

 

Main PC:

Spoiler

|Ryzen 7 3700x, OC to 4.2ghz @1.3V, 67C, or 4.4ghz @1.456V, 87C || Asus strix 5700 XT, +50 core, +50 memory, +50 power (not a great overclocker) || Asus Strix b550-A || G.skill trident Z Neo rgb 32gb 3600mhz cl16-19-19-19-39, oc to 3733mhz with the same timings || Cooler Master ml360 RGB AIO || Phanteks P500A Digital || Thermaltake ToughPower grand RGB750w 80+gold || Samsung 850 250gb and Adata SX 6000 Lite 500gb || Toshiba 5400rpm 1tb || Asus Rog Theta 7.1 || Asus Rog claymore || Asus Gladius 2 origin gaming mouse || Monitor 1 Asus 1080p 144hz || Monitor 2 AOC 1080p 75hz || 

Test Rig.

Spoiler

Ryzen 5 3400G || Gigabyte b450 S2H || Hyper X fury 2x4gb 2666mhz cl 16 ||Stock cooler || Antec NX100 || Silverstone essential 400w || Transgend SSD 220s 480gb ||

Just Sold

Spoiler

| i3 9100F || Msi Gaming X gtx 1050 TI || MSI Z390 A-Pro || Kingston 1x16gb 2400mhz cl17 || Stock cooler || Kolink Horizon RGB || Corsair CV 550w || Pny CS900 120gb ||

 

Tier lists for building a PC.

 

Motherboard tier list. Tier A for overclocking 5950x. Tier B for overclocking 5900x, Tier C for overclocking 5800X. Tier D for overclocking 5600X. Tier F for 4/6 core Cpus at stock. Tier E avoid.

(Also case airflow matter or if you are using Downcraft air cooler)

Spoiler

 

Gpu tier list. Rtx 3000 and RX 6000 not included since not so many reviews. Tier S for Water cooling. Tier A and B for overcloking. Tier C stock and Tier D avoid.

( You can overclock Tier C just fine, but it can get very loud, that is why it is not recommended for overclocking, same with tier D)

Spoiler

 

Psu tier List. Tier A for Rtx 3000, Vega and RX 6000. Tier B For anything else. Tier C cheap/IGPU. Tier D and E avoid.

(RTX 3000/ RX 6000 Might run just fine with higher wattage tier B unit, Rtx 3070 runs fine with tier B units)

Spoiler

 

Cpu cooler tier list. Tier 1&2 for power hungry Cpus with Overclock. Tier 3&4 for overclocking Ryzen 3,5,7 or lower power Intel Cpus. Tier 5 for overclocking low end Cpus or 4/6 core Ryzen. Tier 6&7 for stock. Tier 8&9 Ryzen stock cooler performance. Do not waste your money!

Spoiler

 

Storage tier List. Tier A for Moving files/  OS. Tier B for OS/Games. Tier C for games. Tier D budget Pcs. Tier E if on sale not the worst but not good.

(With a grain of salt, I use tier C for OS myself)

Spoiler

 

Case Tier List. Work In Progress. Most Phanteks airflow series cases already done!

Ask me anything :)

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