COVID-19 - READ THE RULES BEFORE REPLYING

[Guest]

@Commodus Thank you! ^o^

[RonnieOP]

2 hours ago, Commodus said:

The situation has reached the point where I want to yell at anyone who's hanging out with people who are clearly not family.  It's actually disturbing -- they either don't understand what social distancing means or think it shouldn't apply when they feel like talking to someone.  If the pandemic gathers momentum here, it'll be due to self-centered assholes who felt their desire to grab a beer with a friend was more important than protecting their entire neighbourhood.

What do you mean by hanging out?

 

Im assuming you mean at another persons home since bars are all closed down.

 

If your staying home but decide to go have a beer at your neighbors house (whos also staying home) then thats really not an issue. 

 

Being family doesnt really mean much.

[PhantomJaguarr]

Ugh. I called all this before it reached here now one of my family members has become super paranoid (justified) and keeps telling us what do or not do concerning the virus. We usually are never home together. Definite change in scenery. Little sacrifices now for the long run. Find myself using my gaming headset much more though. Little rant.

[Commodus]

9 minutes ago, RonnieOP said:

What do you mean by hanging out?

 

Im assuming you mean at another persons home since bars are all closed down.

 

If your staying home but decide to go have a beer at your neighbors house (whos also staying home) then thats really not an issue. 

 

Being family doesnt really mean much.

Any close social interaction whatsoever.  Visiting their home.  Chatting on the street corner.

 

You really don't understand how social distancing works.  If they're not an immediate family member, romantic partner or roommate, you MUST avoid all non-essential interaction them.  NO EXCEPTIONS.  The whole point is to minimize the chances of the virus spreading, and you don't do that by getting into close contact with half your social circle.

[The King of the Undead]

7 minutes ago, Commodus said:

Any close social interaction whatsoever.  Visiting their home.  Chatting on the street corner.

 

You really don't understand how social distancing works.  If they're not an immediate family member, romantic partner or roommate, you MUST avoid all non-essential interaction them.  NO EXCEPTIONS.  The whole point is to minimize the chances of the virus spreading, and you don't do that by getting into close contact with half your social circle.

The extent of my contact with people at this point (in KC area closest case I have heard about is johnson county) Is playing outside with the neighbors kids. we do handle each others RC car controllers but that's about it.

[RonnieOP]

Just now, Commodus said:

Any close social interaction whatsoever.  Visiting their home.  Chatting on the street corner.

 

You really don't understand how social distancing works.  If they're not an immediate family member, romantic partner or roommate, you MUST avoid all non-essential interaction them.  NO EXCEPTIONS.  The whole point is to minimize the chances of the virus spreading, and you don't do that by getting into close contact with your social circle like it's just another day.

If you and your neighbor are both staying home 24/7 visiting eachother is fine. Its no different then hanging out with your family.

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest]

1 minute ago, The King of the Undead said:

The extent of my contact with people at this point (in KC area closest case I have heard about is johnson county) Is playing outside with the neighbors kids. we do handle each others RC car controllers but that's about it.

Do you wipe the controllers with desifectant wipes before handling them?

 

[NumLock21]

 

 

[Canoe]

On 3/22/2020 at 1:44 PM, wkdpaul said:

.. what can be used as a temporary replacement in case of unavailability?

Found this in my travels...

https://freesewing.org/docs/patterns/fu/

 

Google for many other examples.

 

Remember, you're only trying to stop yourself from forgetting and touching your mouth or nose, and blocking the rare circumstance of droplets.

[The King of the Undead]

7 minutes ago, Cora_Lie said:

Do you wipe the controllers with desifectant wipes before handling them?

 

no but we wash our hands when we go inside. and we have only handled each others like once.

[Commodus]

17 minutes ago, RonnieOP said:

If you and your neighbor are both staying home 24/7 visiting eachother is fine. Its no different then hanging out with your family.

No, it's not.

 

Do you have a guarantee that your neighbour not only hasn't left the house at all, but has never come into contact with an infected person?  What if one of their friends visited with an infection?

 

You're proving my point: people are gambling with each others' lives because they don't 'feel' like meetings with friends should count.  You must avoid all non-essential contact; no exceptions, no excuses.  And you're making a whole lot of excuses.

[RonnieOP]

4 minutes ago, Commodus said:

No, it's not.

 

Do you have a guarantee that your neighbour not only hasn't left the house at all, but has never come into contact with an infected person?  What if one of their friends visited with an infection?

 

You're proving my point: people are gambling with each others' lives because they don't 'feel' like meetings with friends should count.  You must avoid all non-essential contact; no exceptions, no excuses.  And you're making a whole lot of excuses.

Thats why i said "if they have been locked down 24/7 as well". Maybe you have some shitty friends. But i can count on mine being honest about what they have been doing. If they say "i havent left home in two weeks and havent seen anyone" they are low risk. If they say "ive been out and about an brian was over here for the weekend" then its no longer a low risk.

 

You seem to think hanging out with family is somehow safe but hanging out with your neighbor is not. Its not black and white like that.

 

Im working and moving around 6 days a week so i dont let people come over. But if i had been staying home and my buddy across the street has been staying home its not a huge risk for us to hang out, watch a movie, and have a beer. 

 

Like anything you have to take a lot of factors into consideration.

 

 

 

 

[NumLock21]

 

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, RonnieOP said:

they are low risk

It's not about trusting your friends or not.

It's not about having shitty friends or not...

 

Even if your friends and their family didn't leave their home 24/7, but they received a parcel, which has been touched by the delivery man and all the other people before him, or he/they received some groceries, which have beeb touched by other people before him, the pizza delivery guy, etc.

The possibility is there...

 

The virus survives up to 9 days on surfaces, the incubation time is max. 5 days...

 

edited to add: Plus YOU move around, you touch things outside of your home, so YOU could be a vector of transmission, without even knowing it ^o^

No judging, just saying

Edited March 23, 2020 by Guest

[Canoe]

This is impressive.

Particularly since they have the knowledge of the infection rates among health care workers and that the outcome for a number of them volunteering will be their own death.
 

Quote

 

United Kingdom

More than 7,500 retired NHS workers volunteer to return

UK Health Secretary Matt Hancock says a total of 7,563 retired clinicians have answered the government's call to return to work in the NHS.

The emergency bill currently being debated by MPs gives powers to re-register workers such as nurses, midwives, paramedics and social workers.

"I want to pay tribute to every single one of them," Mr Hancock said.

 

 

[RonnieOP]

1 minute ago, Cora_Lie said:

It's not about trusting your friends or not.

It's not about having shitty friends or not...

 

Even if your friends and their family didn't leave their home 24/7, but they received a parcel, which has been touched by the delivery man and all the other people before him, or he/they received some groceries, which have beeb touched by other people before him, the pizza delivery guy, etc.

The possibility is there...

 

The virus survives up to 9 days on surfaces, the incubation time is max. 5 days...

The possibility is there no matter what. We are talking about whats low risk and high risk.

 

Idk where you are getting these figures from about it lasting 9 days on a surface though.

[Commodus]

1 minute ago, RonnieOP said:

Thats why i said "if they have been locked down 24/7 as well". Maybe you have some shitty friends. But i can count on mine being honest about what they have been doing. If they say "i havent left home in two weeks and havent seen anyone" they are low risk. If they say "ive been out and about an brian was over here for the weekend" then its no longer a low risk.

 

You seem to think hanging out with family is somehow safe but hanging out with your neighbor is not. Its not black and white like that.

 

Im working and moving around 6 days a week so i dont let people come over. But if i had been staying home and my buddy across the street has been staying home its not a huge risk for us to hang out, watch a movie, and have a beer. 

 

Like anything you have to take a lot of factors into consideration.

 

 

 

 

The point isn't that someone is or isn't magically safe, it's that you have to cut out as much non-essential contact as possible to avoid even the slightest chance that you run into someone who's infected.  And remember, you're arguing for a very hypothetical situation -- even some of those isolating people go out once a week for groceries.

 

And while it's good that you're not letting people come over, the very point of my argument is that many of the people meeting friends are clearly ignoring the guidelines, or may be confused about what counts.  I've seen people just hanging out on the street corner, or even getting into an elevator with strangers.  There's this stubborn refusal to change their behaviour because they don't want to accept that they won't see their friends again for weeks or even months.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, RonnieOP said:

Idk where you are getting these figures from about it lasting 9 days on a surface though.

Go zoom through the other thread. We have stated it there, with links and sources (serious, real, scientific sources).

[WkdPaul]

@Cora_Lie

@RonnieOP

 

I posted about it in this thread (didn't know it was posted in the old one too)

 

 

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0195670120300463

[RonnieOP]

2 minutes ago, Commodus said:

The point isn't that someone is or isn't magically safe, it's that you have to cut out as much non-essential contact as possible to avoid even the slightest chance that you run into someone who's infected.  And remember, you're arguing for a very hypothetical situation -- even some of those isolating people go out once a week for groceries.

 

And while it's good that you're not letting people come over, the very point of my argument is that many of the people meeting friends are clearly ignoring the guidelines, or may be confused about what counts.  I've seen people just hanging out on the street corner, or even getting into an elevator with strangers.  There's this stubborn refusal to change their behaviour because they don't want to accept that they won't see their friends again for weeks or even months.

Yes you have stubborn people doing stupid things. Look at the spring breakers.

 

But theres a big difference in risk between having a beer with your isolated neighbor and going out an playing basketball with stranger then hoping in an elevator.

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, wkdpaul said:

(didn't know it was posted in the old one too)

I know it was posted in the other post thread, we had 2-3 times the discussion about this somewhere through the 83 pages of the thread

Not important per se, who posted first, it's been mentioned several times

[Blade of Grass]

11 minutes ago, wkdpaul said:

@Cora_Lie

@RonnieOP

 

I posted about it in this thread (didn't know it was posted in the old one too)

 

 

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0195670120300463

https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/new-coronavirus-stable-hours-surfaces
 

Quote

The virus that causes coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) is stable for several hours to days in aerosols and on surfaces, according to a new study from National Institutes of Health, CDC, UCLA and Princeton University scientists in The New England Journal of Medicine. The scientists found that severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) was detectable in aerosols for up to three hours, up to four hours on copper, up to 24 hours on cardboard and up to two to three days on plastic and stainless steel. The results provide key information about the stability of SARS-CoV-2, which causes COVID-19 disease, and suggests that people may acquire the virus through the air and after touching contaminated objects. The study information was widely shared during the past two weeks after the researchers placed the contents on a preprint server to quickly share their data with colleagues.

The one you linked seems to be an analysis of data on previous strains. The link above is from an experiment from the NIH where they simulate SARS-CoV-2 being deposited on surfaces and measures it's lifetime. 

[WkdPaul]

5 minutes ago, Blade of Grass said:

https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/new-coronavirus-stable-hours-surfaces
 

The one you linked seems to be an analysis of data on previous strains. The link above is from an experiment from the NIH where they simulate SARS-CoV-2 being deposited on surfaces and measures it's lifetime. 

Thanks for the correction!

[Canoe]

9 minutes ago, RonnieOP said:

Thats why i said "if they have been locked down 24/7 as well". Maybe you have some shitty friends. But i can count on mine being honest about what they have been doing. If they say "i havent left home in two weeks and havent seen anyone" they are low risk. If they say "ive been out and about an brian was over here for the weekend" then its no longer a low risk.

You seem to think hanging out with family is somehow safe but hanging out with your neighbor is not. Its not black and white like that.

Im working and moving around 6 days a week so i dont let people come over. But if i had been staying home and my buddy across the street has been staying home its not a huge risk for us to hang out, watch a movie, and have a beer.

Like anything you have to take a lot of factors into consideration.

And that's exactly why the infection has continued to spread.

• They are not low risk. If they aren't lying, they're simply lower risk than they otherwise would have been.
• Until they present with the disease, infected people will be pre-symptomatic.
• Incubation is usually two to fourteen days, but the range runs from hours out to 27 days (possibly 29 days).
  • Although 14 days is a good start, until you've been actually isolated for 27 days without presenting with symptoms:
    • You don't know if you are or are not infected.
    • You don't know if you are or are not contagious to other people.
  • If you have any contact, then reset your isolation time.
• Compliance is extremely important. The longer before people take this seriously and actually follow Compliance, the longer more people are getting infected, the more people from 20's and up end up in hospitals (using resources, including ventilators) and risk overloading the health care system into a disaster like Italy.

We need enough isolation time:

• to stop slow minimize the spread - Flatten The Curve
• for the Mild cases run their course and no longer be contagious,
• for pre-symptomatic cases to develop and present (and ideally run their course through to non-contagious too), and
• for all or a representative number of cases to be counted so public health authorities know where the clusters are, so they can make informed decisions about when & where to relax isolation measures and by how much.

Doing any relaxation of isolation measures before numbers are well known is asking for significant trouble.

 

[Canoe]

Fortunately for myself, it's a very small step from my usual lifestyle into one of self-isolating... lol

 

I had a nearly full 720 ml bottle of hand sanitizer I bought last month for serving trail drinks & food at a cross-country skiing. I have a small one that's enough for my needs, and 99% alcohol from which I can make more. I took the bottle over to a friend who runs a home child-care. Late at night so no one is around. Placed the bottle on the steps (and a package of face masks from my Burning Man gifting stash, in case anyone needs to go to clinic/hospital where they might be out of masks). Her youngest son came to the door and was amused that I was standing back three metres and told him that he'd need to go wash his hands after taking those things inside for his mother. He usually throws himself at me for a hug, so he too has modified his behaviour.

 

My friend staying alone in the closed ski resort, is very gregarious and this is truly affecting him. He's using internet/wifi to stay connected with people. He found one other guy staying in his hotel/condo. They wifi, each make their own coffee, then meet in the large common meeting area and talk to each other from thirty feet away. He has taken to going for walks through the empty resort just to spend time with anyone - the deer that have wandered in...